I think there is little doubt in almost anyone's mind that Astalor is problematic and definitely something that needs looking at. As for the music, I only ever play with music off because I find it annoying and distracting, so I don't know what his "music" sounds like - thank goodness, apparently, lol.
Still waiting for "Can't be targeted by Spells or Hero Powers." to be changed to Elusive
They can't do this, because "Elusive" is a keyword that was used exclusively in WoW TCG. It carries the same sort of copyrights (or whatever) as keywords used in other games like MtG, etc. It's also why they went with "Charge", since they already used "Ferocity" in WoW TCG.
Understandably frustrating to happen and feel your pain. But at the same time, this DOES seem mostly like salt, which belongs in the appropriate thread, since there are no options here for reasonable discourse or debate that you have highlighted.
Interaction in card games traditionally means you go back and forth in terms of power, which generally means board presence. It's a constant battle to get an edge over the other player until one overwhelms the other. The least amount of interactivity comes from combos that bypass all interaction by just winning the game outright.
I think thats possibly a somewhat loose interpretation. You "could" suggest that firing from hand is basically one big back and forth of power. For most of the game you are at a disadvantage while the other player tries to attack your and defeat you and you are defending until you get a chance to swing the game around. But as I say, it feels like this is a general difference in subjective opinion about what interaction should be, as opposed to what it is from a literal meaning sense.
Hearthstone has historically always had ways of winning the game outright from your hand, and I dont think there is necessarily anything wrong with it.
But you raise a key point here:
When there's barely any interaction between players, each player is just playing their own minigame against the clock. They're barely countering each other's plays. They're just fishing for their own cards and trying to complete their own quest. And then, frustratingly, one player just wins before the other does. Hurrah.
That's what (non-)interaction is.
And I think we can actually formulate a more specific definition of what a truly non-interactive deck would be. If two players sat opposite, not attacking the other player, and playing only minions on the board or drawing cards with no player taking any damage until one of the players draws all pieces of a combo or set they need to win from their hand, then yes, this would be truly non-interactive. The only interaction either player had with the other was to shout "Bingo!" and play their winning hand.
However, if one player was attacking the other with direct damage or minions and the other player was defending by interacting with those minions and removing them or blocking them until they could find the cards they needed to win, then this is a prime example of actual "interactive" play.
Yeah, I used to play Arena a lot back in the old days, but then moved onto the other modes as more to my taste. I went back to Arena again this expansion as I had about a dozen tickets to use and needed to up my card collection a little. But arena doesnt feel like it used to, to me. It seems super-dominated by Paladins and DKs now and the other classes feel like they have little chance.
Its probably worth mentioning that many (including myself) play constructed for the season rewards which are ultra valuable to us F2P / low-spend players
I have always been f2p in HS and I used to think that way too. HS put a couple packs in front of me each month and a couple extra cards and I was like "yeah, I have to reach at least rank XY". At some point I realised though that constructed formats have always been boring to me. And now that I can get a lot of wins in Duels or Arena, I realised that I earn a lot more resources (or pay very little gold per pack) just from playing these modes, which is a lot more valuable than what I would get from Ranked. BG, Mercenaries, and Duels also give xp for the rewards tracks, so it feels unnecessary for me to grind constructed anymore. It's also worth noting that I can play Arena, Duels, and BG with rather low dust investment (even after a 1.5 years break), so I kinda don't even need the pack rewards anymore anyway. But it's everyone's decision what mode they prefer. I just don't get the "every card is so broken" mentality when people continue to play. It sounds like people want to be frustrated by their game. A break can really work wonders
Arena rewards are certainly much higher (and more frequent) than the seasonal ones, but I do find Arena to be something of a gamble and can end up being just as (if not more) frustrating, mostly because its the game mode with the highest feeling of unfairness when you get offered absolute dross and then repeatedly face people with multiple legendaries in your matches. Heh.
While I understand the nature of the "interaction" argument, it is also worth mentioning that this is not always as much the case as some people seem to think it is. Probably the biggest example of this would be the ShockSpitter Hunter deck. First, let me say that yes, I agree this deck is obnoxious to play against because it provides a real feels-bad moment for you when you lose to it. But acknowledging that aside, people still make the claim that this deck is un-interactive, which is not the case. Consider the game-plan of the deck. The opponent wants to try and attack with a weapon as many times as possible to then play repeating shock spitters to your face for the win.
I played a game recently against this opponent, and was able to easily interact with them and counter their game plan by repeatedly freezing the opponent with appropriate cards and effects, meaning that they could not generate the damage required to boost the ShockSpitters high enough. All this while chipping away the opponent health for the final win. It must have been at least as annoying for them as it would have been for me if I had lost to their combo.
As an addendum I have also beaten this deck with disruption a great many times. I well timed Theotar or Mutanus is perfect for wrecking their combo before they get a chance to play it.
Ad finally, if you dont have any of the above options available to you, there is also the falback of making sure that whatever the opponent is attacking into is going to really hurt them (a high damage taunt minion for example). Sure, this is less effective if they have the Immunity bow out. But lastly, dont forget that weapon removal tech is also still a thing and the Viper card is still useful with its tradability option.
Its probably worth mentioning that many (including myself) play constructed for the season rewards which are ultra valuable to us F2P / low-spend players
Just stop cards from hitting face. Nerf astalor and shockspitter and other cards to hit enemy minions .
But then you will have the problem that the only ways of winning feasibly are board damage from minions or possibly fatigue, which then makes the whole game become stale and less fun for everyone. Having unexpected and surprising ways to win a game is what makes the game fun and more interactive and immersive.
Unexpected and surprising 40 dmg from shockspitters or lets say our beloved Denathrius back then, way more interactive than board trading.
You are literally interacting with the opposing player rather than ignoring them and only attacking minions. Its the very definition of “interactivity”. Not sure what more you want. Lol
??? So by ,,opponent" u mean their ONLY their face? Their board is not ,,opposing player" Damn, that's next lvl. So if 2 burn decks match, and noone is gonna play ANY minion, both just cast spells at enemy face, that's the most interaction you can get in hearthstone?
So are you saying BOTH are in actual fact, versions of “interaction” then? Just so we’re clear…
Just stop cards from hitting face. Nerf astalor and shockspitter and other cards to hit enemy minions .
But then you will have the problem that the only ways of winning feasibly are board damage from minions or possibly fatigue, which then makes the whole game become stale and less fun for everyone. Having unexpected and surprising ways to win a game is what makes the game fun and more interactive and immersive.
Unexpected and surprising 40 dmg from shockspitters or lets say our beloved Denathrius back then, way more interactive than board trading.
You are literally interacting with the opposing player rather than ignoring them and only attacking minions. Its the very definition of “interactivity”. Not sure what more you want. Lol
Imo, damage from hands should never exceed 15, its like the classic mage double fireball frostbolt turn 10.
I just took 64 damage from Brann and double Astalor on turn 6. Such fun. I agree damage from hand should be capped. Not removed altogether otherwise it would obviously just make the game boring for everyone who likes interesting and interactive games.
1
I think there is little doubt in almost anyone's mind that Astalor is problematic and definitely something that needs looking at.
As for the music, I only ever play with music off because I find it annoying and distracting, so I don't know what his "music" sounds like - thank goodness, apparently, lol.
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As far as vaguely disguised Humble Brags go, this one was impressive.
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Please don't make posts and titles all in Caps.
Glad you have sorted the problem.
Locking this now.
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Oh, I agree. Definitely.
1
They can't do this, because "Elusive" is a keyword that was used exclusively in WoW TCG. It carries the same sort of copyrights (or whatever) as keywords used in other games like MtG, etc.
It's also why they went with "Charge", since they already used "Ferocity" in WoW TCG.
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Understandably frustrating to happen and feel your pain.
But at the same time, this DOES seem mostly like salt, which belongs in the appropriate thread, since there are no options here for reasonable discourse or debate that you have highlighted.
Locked.
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PLease do not bump threads as this leads to bump-wars.
And especially old threads like these which are months old.
Locked.
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I think thats possibly a somewhat loose interpretation. You "could" suggest that firing from hand is basically one big back and forth of power. For most of the game you are at a disadvantage while the other player tries to attack your and defeat you and you are defending until you get a chance to swing the game around. But as I say, it feels like this is a general difference in subjective opinion about what interaction should be, as opposed to what it is from a literal meaning sense.
Hearthstone has historically always had ways of winning the game outright from your hand, and I dont think there is necessarily anything wrong with it.
But you raise a key point here:
And I think we can actually formulate a more specific definition of what a truly non-interactive deck would be.
If two players sat opposite, not attacking the other player, and playing only minions on the board or drawing cards with no player taking any damage until one of the players draws all pieces of a combo or set they need to win from their hand, then yes, this would be truly non-interactive. The only interaction either player had with the other was to shout "Bingo!" and play their winning hand.
However, if one player was attacking the other with direct damage or minions and the other player was defending by interacting with those minions and removing them or blocking them until they could find the cards they needed to win, then this is a prime example of actual "interactive" play.
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Yeah, I used to play Arena a lot back in the old days, but then moved onto the other modes as more to my taste.
I went back to Arena again this expansion as I had about a dozen tickets to use and needed to up my card collection a little. But arena doesnt feel like it used to, to me. It seems super-dominated by Paladins and DKs now and the other classes feel like they have little chance.
0
Arena rewards are certainly much higher (and more frequent) than the seasonal ones, but I do find Arena to be something of a gamble and can end up being just as (if not more) frustrating, mostly because its the game mode with the highest feeling of unfairness when you get offered absolute dross and then repeatedly face people with multiple legendaries in your matches. Heh.
0
While I understand the nature of the "interaction" argument, it is also worth mentioning that this is not always as much the case as some people seem to think it is.
Probably the biggest example of this would be the ShockSpitter Hunter deck. First, let me say that yes, I agree this deck is obnoxious to play against because it provides a real feels-bad moment for you when you lose to it. But acknowledging that aside, people still make the claim that this deck is un-interactive, which is not the case.
Consider the game-plan of the deck. The opponent wants to try and attack with a weapon as many times as possible to then play repeating shock spitters to your face for the win.
I played a game recently against this opponent, and was able to easily interact with them and counter their game plan by repeatedly freezing the opponent with appropriate cards and effects, meaning that they could not generate the damage required to boost the ShockSpitters high enough. All this while chipping away the opponent health for the final win. It must have been at least as annoying for them as it would have been for me if I had lost to their combo.
As an addendum I have also beaten this deck with disruption a great many times. I well timed Theotar or Mutanus is perfect for wrecking their combo before they get a chance to play it.
Ad finally, if you dont have any of the above options available to you, there is also the falback of making sure that whatever the opponent is attacking into is going to really hurt them (a high damage taunt minion for example). Sure, this is less effective if they have the Immunity bow out. But lastly, dont forget that weapon removal tech is also still a thing and the Viper card is still useful with its tradability option.
0
Its probably worth mentioning that many (including myself) play constructed for the season rewards which are ultra valuable to us F2P / low-spend players
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So are you saying BOTH are in actual fact, versions of “interaction” then? Just so we’re clear…
0
You are literally interacting with the opposing player rather than ignoring them and only attacking minions. Its the very definition of “interactivity”. Not sure what more you want. Lol
2
I just took 64 damage from Brann and double Astalor on turn 6. Such fun.
I agree damage from hand should be capped. Not removed altogether otherwise it would obviously just make the game boring for everyone who likes interesting and interactive games.