Hearthpwn

Quote from Talkers >>

 Isn't refusing to run anti-weapon tech the same as not running taunts against hyper-aggro decks and then complaining how they are unbeatable? If Ooze catches my buffed self-sharpening, which every player worth his salt will do, it is pretty much GG for me. Likewise lots of taunt and AoE hurt too obviously, stealth does not help with those.

You can run 2x ooze, but for example by turn 7 other classes (priest, warrior, hunter, shaman) see 3-4 starting cards (2x, if he decides to switch all of them), draw 7 and maybe get 1-2 from draw. Similarly other classes - so best case scenario, he sees 14 cards while mulliganing all hand. 

This is something Rogue players dont understand - even if you play all counters and invest 7-8 cards specificall to counter rogue, you will often not find them or you find them at time you dont need them anymore. 

 I am a stealth rogue main atm though. I know how it feels from the other end. Ooze on buffed up wep is pretty much GG. You say they don't always get their tools. Well should they? I mean having the tools 100% of the time would mean dead rogue 90% of the time... that does not sound balanced either. You say you are a rogue main, did you even play modern stealth rogue? It is far from omnipotent, it is barely good actually. If you haven't play it, you will see it is far from ideal. And if they really want us dead dead dead they can just load up on taunts, heals and even Harrison Jones.

Yes I find it really cheap too, what cost is it to Blizzard to leave them behind. Both in terms of coding (I don't think there is any cost, less cost surely than removing the XP reward component) nor in terms of lost money via bonus XP. I think none of those achis is more than 500XP and the vast majority are in the 100-200XP range. Surely this will beggar Blizzard. >_>

Cheap bastards, at least they should leave it until the set goes Wild as you say.

EDIT: As someone who is looking for quick and easy XP right now to finish the Reward Track I looked into doing all these and they are just not worth the time. They are hard to do and offer way too little reward. No one is going to go out of their way and craft cards they don't already own. Indeed even if you own them and don't already use them getting these achis is still too much of a pain for too little gain. Really pathetic Blizz.

Nah I distinctly remember reading that Core cards can be used in other Modes, they are your cards... just for one year. A lease. As such Core Jaraxxus will be mirrored into old Jaraxxus in Classic Mode. I am pretty sure of this.

That said he loses absolutely nothing by waiting to see if I am right in 7 days. Apart from the pain of not being able to say OBLIVION for 7 days I guess :P

@Banur well I am in a tight spot in that I need to get XP as fast as a mofo to finish the track. But if I wasn't I'd stockpile quests to just before the expansion. Then do all my quests (without opening packs) and this should get me something like lvl 25-30 in the new system. Beyond that it becomes silly not to open packs.

Also this math might change for people who plan to open a mega-bundle or otherwise buy something like 70+ packs as they have a fair chance of getting one of those two legends imo.

Quote from GiantHaystacks >>

Aye.  If you craft a legendary then dust it, you'll not get it from packs until you have all legendaries from that set.  Banur's point is well made, in that you need to get away from the "Undo" screen for it to count.

 But are we sure about this?

I might run a test where I craft and immediately DE all bad legendaries in Barrens set and see if I get them before the good ones after.

I understand you are against powercreep, I think very few people are pro-powercreep :P But I doubt Blizz would be able to resist the allure. I did understand what you meant by Core guiding the players towards the newest expansions. But still in this system I can see people bulking up their best years so they always have a good pool on hand. It is permanent value. In this way the Years become the new Classic set. And we saw what happened to Classic it was powercreeped into irrelevancy and the few good cards were sent to Hall of Fame. The incentive for Blizz to act the same is not only there but stronger. Hence I think they would powercreep and nerf good old cards even more. Also the difficulty for new players is not just in getting enough cards to compete but also understanding all the cards. It has been a bit rough relearning the meta and all the cards as a returning pro, imagine being a brand new player faced with every single card ever printed, because that is what your (only remaining) mode would be.

Anyway as I said I like the idea but I fear Blizz would mess it up, because it is in their financial interest to do so even disregarding plain incompetence.

@P4dge It is funny, I 100% disagree with you but you were polite and reasonable so can't dislike you ;) I have come to absolutely loathe the Discover mechanic, it is just so worn out by now, pulling answers out of your ass, it also contributes a lot to the infinite value problem. And while I used to be a hyper-heavy control fan I have started to find such matches tedious and wish for something quick and exciting. I also disagree as to its apparent omnipotence over control, again as I said a few times people can just play it and see that it isn't what it seems on those saltiest of matches. People notice the bad and forget the good, hence hating every class but their own, and maybe even that :P

You are also very adult in realizing that aggro has a place in keeping the meta from becoming too greedy, as I said you'd see a lot more Tickatus without rogue and well we will see if warlock spikes after Thursday.

@eeronblac Actually the deck has a really high skill ceiling. Deciding when to remove a threat and when to push for damage. Finding a path to lethal is often very tricky. When to use Secret Passage. To calculate lethal on the fly since with Pen Flingers and a bunch of cards in hands there are a lot of combinations. There is a lot of subtlety and intricacy to it. It is a lot like old miracle rogue, that is why I love it. It is definitely not face hunter in rogue.

If some bad player were to use this deck like a hammer I don't think they'd leave Silver, definitely not Gold. 

Quote from Banur >>

Quote from Neko_Tamo >>

This is true but there are also many other card rewards in the reward track and by opening packs first you risk getting those cards and then feeling sad when you get them from the reward track too. I think the odds of ending up sad this way far outweigh the odds of getting luck with a Mankrik or Samuro.

If it were true, you would basically open zero packs for one or two months until you claimed all cards from the reward track?

Luckily that’s not the case: “Golden cards on the free track cannot be crafted, disenchanted, or obtained from card packs.” (Later they can.)

 Golden yes but that says nothing for the non-golden versions I think. You can and probably will get those if you open packs first, making you feel sad when you get the Golden versions via the track.

And I for one am very hyped! In fact how come there is not more hype for Classic? Let's change that shall we ;)

I am kind of tired of the randomness of the game now, infinite values, especially tired of the Discover mechanic which has kind of totally overtaken Hearthstone. I am looking forward to more down to earth games of Classic. I also like that the power level was lower, it seems to me also that the plays were a lot more tactical then. Maybe a lot of that is rose tinted glasses but hey nostalgia is a powerful drug so bring it on :D

Do you guys think the meta is solved? Will it just be wallet warrior, ramp druid, burn mage, miracle rogue, handlock and face hunter to annoy them all over again? I think it will start that way probably, people are nostalgic for those decks and with the possible exception of face hunter I am too. I especially wanna try miracle rogue, but all of those popular archetypes were too expensive for my card collection then so now I get a second chance to try them all out. BUT, has there been some brainiac out there thinking about this since Classic was announced, trying to come up with a meta breaking new deck? Well probably, lots of people out there :D Not sure they can succeed though, millions played then and if this groundbreaking deck was not found then it probably won't now. Still would be fun if even this settled meta was shaken up by some clever invention, maybe even now waiting in the wings.

Finally even though it hasn't even started yet, thoughts on the future. Should Naxxramas be eventually introduced? Should Classic instead get its own mini-sets? Some card balancing? I like all of those options since being eternally the same might get old, BUT I think if those are added pure Classic should be preserved. Kind of like they are doing now for WoW Classic come to think of it.

Discuss away :D

As I understand, and I am not 100% sure so don't hold me to this. The Core Jaraxxus is Jaraxxus, the card is just changed from a minion who becomes a hero to a straight hero card. He is not a wholly new card like the new Y'sera or Alex. Those have new names to distinguish them from the old cards. All cards that exist in Standard and Wild that also existed in Classic times will be mirrored to their old form in Classic Format. This includes Jaraxxus. So as you will have two forms of Mana Wyrm you will have two forms of Jaraxxus, one in Classic and another everywhere else. And as it has been said Core cards can be used outside Standard I see no reason you can't use the free Jaraxxus you get from Core in Classic. I am very sure this will work.

Either way if it doesn't you lose nothing, you can just craft Jaraxxus then. 

This is true but there are also many other card rewards in the reward track and by opening packs first you risk getting those cards and then feeling sad when you get them from the reward track too. I think the odds of ending up sad this way far outweigh the odds of getting luck with a Mankrik or Samuro.

Well I like the idea, as an old player I have a substantial number of good old cards. The ones who won't like it are new players who will be even more out of their depth and Blizzard who will not like us being able to draw on our deep pools of past cards again and again despite being able to influence the meta using Core. Indeed they would likely resort to powercreeping even more to make sure that the newest cards are absolutely mandatory. Balancing will also be harder since you need to consider not just the two sets, Standard and Wild with their respective pools but any combination of current year and core + any past year.

You can craft Y'sera now and have fun with her until she is nerfed (not sure if that happens with patch 20.0 or with launch of Barrens) and then DE her for full value, the full value refund lasts for two weeks post-nerf.

Quote from Nanoks >>

Tier doesn't mean anything. Rogue has been so oppressive, the meta has tech'd just to counter Rogue.

As far as feelings go, Rogue just poses very uninteresting gameplay. You can't interact with a weapon bashing into your face the whole match, and you can't even interact with the minions because they're all stealthed. Add to that the fact that Rogue has Secret Passage, it makes it a ridiculous aggro deck, without ever running out of cards.

 Isn't refusing to run anti-weapon tech the same as not running taunts against hyper-aggro decks and then complaining how they are unbeatable? If Ooze catches my buffed self-sharpening, which every player worth his salt will do, it is pretty much GG for me. Likewise lots of taunt and AoE hurt too obviously, stealth does not help with those.

@Reisen_Undonge yeah I am gonna call BS on that one m8, remember I am currently playing this deck extensively as it is the only good one I have. Not gonna try to do a lot of math to prove you wrong but that is probably impossible. And if it isn't it is because the rogue highrolled like hell and you did not pressure the rogue at all so he kept his Eviscerates, Preps and whatnot and you are letting him sit there with 10 mana AND no taunt on your side. And you are gonna be mad about that?

Anyway it is finished, the nerf is coming down so no point to argue. I am amazed by the amount of hate however, at least you guys can be happy now maybe. I feel you are more mad now than I am and it's my deck that is dead. :P As I said I played the deck extensively and it is not that good, people can try it out for themselves if they think the grass is so much greener. Though unnerfedArcane Golem might bring revenge to us Rogues yet ;)

lol just saw they nerfed nitroboost, congratz whiners

you killed a 2nd tier deck (in typical Blizz fashion it is a nerf to the ground, could have made attack +3 to compensate for higher cost...), that ofc won't stop you from being assplowed by token druid and other actually great decks