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- Nawasty
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Member for 9 years, 3 months, and 17 days
Last active Thu, Apr, 25 2024 11:27:58 -
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1
I did adapt though (look at the deck in my signature). Although I wouldn't call adapting to the meta. Adapting to the meta is when you play a tech card to counter another type of card that sees play. Archivist Elysiana just requires you to play her just to have a chance against other control decks running her.
And again you didn't answer : why making elysiana 10 mana would make her any less fun?
Or why being forced to play casual with her would make her any less fun?
2
Banned them from Ranked too then, and i'll agree
Because, I certainly don't want to be forced to play a card just because other players want to keep playing her, and I certainly don't want to face that rng fest yogg in ranked ever again even in wild.
1
You'll have to make a bigger effort to explain then, because as I understand it : it's exactly what you meant.
1- You called nerfing Elysiana a punishment for non competitive players:
Why ? How is it a punishment? How is it any different than nerfing, let's say, Yogg Saron?
2 You said that "We don't want tournaments to run super long, so we're nerfing a card played by a lot of non tournment players." was an unreasonable solution :
Why ? How? Again How is it any different than nerfing Yogg Saron ?
2
So what you're saying is we should never nerf a card that is problematic for competitive players just because other players (not even the majority of players) don't want any change whatsoever? It's not like making her 10 mana will make her any less fun
Aren't you the unreasonable one?
0
When you nerf a card, you're supposed to make the card worse, not better against any deck except bomb warrior.
Not sure how you're supposed to nerf elysiana to be fair. Making her 10 mana would solve the brewmaster problem, and would make the game last slightly shorter, but you'll still see her in every control deck, and control shaman would still be able to play her battlecry twice because shudderwock. so I don't think it's a good solution.
If things come to worse, there's always the old blizzard solution " 8 mana 7/7 : The cards that didn't start in your deck have +1 attack." That way the the spirit of the card is completely preserved.... /jk/
Looking forward to those nerfs if they do happen anyway.
1
Control Warrior doesn't need to be changed, it's not a problem;
Bomb warrior is a bit frustrating to play against (especialy when you get killed from 19 just because he went face, shuffled 4 bombs and you happen to draw 3 in a row despite having all the healing in the world ready) but objectively it is also balanced
The reason why control druid exists is because it doesn't have any good removals or draw mechanic left (Rip UI and naturalize)
The reason why control Mage and warlock doesn't exist is because they don't have (or few for warlock) any healing or taunt left. (and no, neutral healing/ zilliax isn't enough), meaning it cannot survive a long game. Rip spellstones, Rip artificer, Rip voidlord, and rip death knights.
The reason why control paladin doesn't exist is because equality has been nerfed, and it doesn't have any efficient board clear against aggro.
The reason why control rogue doesn't exist is because control rogue has never been viable anyway.
and the reason why control priest doesn't exist is because it has the weakest core set, and if something legitimately broken doesn't get printed, the class tends to become really weak after each rotation. (also if they print something broken for priest every rotation, wild priest is going to become a bigger mess than it already is, so it's not a solution either).
0
Made it with control shaman, struggled a little at first when my list wasn't refined, but I eventualy got up there.
the list (final) :
3
Archivist Elysiana is the embodiment of the prisonner's dilemna for control decks in hearthstone :
If nobody plays her, control does better against any archetype except other control decks., as a result it's in the best intrest of the control player community to not play her.
However, if a control player "betray" (it's just a reference, it's not really betrayal) the others and decides to play her, he'll get a net advantage over the other control players, which means better winrate.
However, as the card is completely useless in any other match-up, if every control player plays Elysiana, control will perform overall a lot worse, and the advantage they would gain is lost. However they still have to pick archivist Elysiana, because if they don't, they'll still lose to every other control player.
I agree it's a Tier 1 Card, unfortunately. Really stupid design decision IMO.
2
For Al'akir, I don't have an excuse other than "I like the card, and he works every time I play him, so i'll keep him in my deck until it stops working".
Al'akir is just really flexible. need removal? al akir can do that. Need a taunt to save myself from leeroy, al akir can do that (beware of sap). I just need a threat on the board to waste my opponent's removal? al akir can do that. and if I need burst, i can buff him with earthen might for surprise pyroblast lethal. But I'm sure there are better cards for every single one of these situations, I just like keeping my options open.
As for that electra zentimo combo: yeah it's great, but you rarely get the opportunity to do it. Usualy I have to use zentimo earlier with earth shock zap or hex for defense, and then it gets removed instanty. I got really lucky with my shaman collections these past 4 expansions, i'm only missing the storm bringer, which isn't that great anyway.
2
I'll admit it's hard to empty your hand quickly enough to find the opportunity to play Harrison, but harrison is here mostly to counter turn 4 Waggle Pick from rogue, while getting draws to search for that healing you'll inevitably need. And with archivist elysiana in your deck you can usualy afford to burn a card or two vs control.
2
I've never been a big fan of farsight, maybe it's because i had terrible rng with it, but it seems i alost always manage to hit something low cost with it. farsight into earth shock or zap! is a horrible feeling tbh.
Also not a big fan of "spend 3 mana for nothing now get it back maybe several turns later." But maybe it's just bias from bad experience.
0
Spirit of the frog was added as the draw engine and tutor of this deck, as it allows you to not only thin your deck, but also search for specific removals. In that sense it is much better than manatide totem, as you stay in control of the cards you draw, but also the amount you draw - as mana tide is often a liabiliy in any control match-up.
Spirit of the frog being steathed for one turn allows you to buff it with Earthen Might against aggro, giving you some board presence while protecting your spirit.
However, spirit of the frog also has its flaws. it requires you to use it with specific spell, meaning for exemple you'll have to waste a lightning storm to draw your hex (also overload yourself).
The main alternative I can think of is a card that is also run in many other control shaman deck (but not in mine) : Haunting Visions
In theory haunting vision is a 0 mana discover a spell - that only forces you to play another spell on the same turn to get a discount. So, again in theory, you can use that to search for a specific spell you'll need in the match-ups. However, because the shaman spell pool is so-so, you'll usualy end up having only one good option, and the other 2 will be trash. Maybe you'll have an actual choice between 2;
the other "obvious" problem is that it does not cycle through your deck, so it will be harder to get key cards like Hagatha or walking fountain when you need them. Same for tech cards.
Maybe you can meet half way and replace one of the tech cards I use and 1 spirit of the frog for 2 haunting visions, which would probably improve consistency, as you rarely need two spirits of the frog.
1
Dam, I hoped I would have 1 or 2 more days before people start noticing Mech Paladin. But between this thread and kripp's vid, seems like it's going to become a lot more common. Managed to climb to rank 1 with it, but I didn't have the time to finish the job
Maybe I'll just wait for it to become popular and switch to control shaman to hard counter it and finish the job.
0
Zoolock has way too many counters to be "the best deck", it just has the exceptional niche of countering token druids, which as far I know, there are only 2 decks able to do that right now. (2 "known" decks)
0
Satisfied : Waggle Pick - I was expecting it to be really really good, and it is.
Surprised :Unseen Saboteur : I thought it would backfire a lot more than it actualy does. It's actualy a safer play than dirty rat in a lot of situations.
Disappointed: Arch-Villain Rafaam . crafted it to counter bomb warrior at first, I honestly regret it. It hasn't won me a single game. If I need a hail mary, I'm better off using Jaraxxus. (or even reckless rocketeer in zoo...;)