Hearthpwn

Just don't, especially with a new expansion around the corner.

Especially if you stll don't have Malygos.

I would normally say Lich King, but from what you wrote you may enjoy more the deckbuilding possiblities that Genn allows you to have, while Lich King is a strong stand alone card that can boost a lot of decks, that still can perform good without him (even if worse).

Congratulations on building a highly efficient healthy aggro deck.
Really, I tried it and it's amazing and more skillbased than actual play green cards Odd Rogue/Paladin, cause you gotta plan ahead your board to make full efficiency out of Lightwarden and Void Ripper

It is also a very fair deck to play against, because any control deck with heal and removal or tempo decks will stomp you into oblivion, especially if you are not careful with managing your resources.

I never play deckbuilding brawls more than one time, because there will always be one or two OP decks that everyone plays. Get reward and gtfo. I roll my eyes everytime I can't hit the Brawl button straight away from picking a class.
But I may be biased, the only brawls I replay are the special character ones and some types of RNG heavy brawls, cause fun shit.

I played against Big Rogue and I don't have issues with it and how it works, as it can be managed with silence effects.
Kel'Thuzad being double summoned with Reincarnation on t4 is something WRONG. Close to Naga Sea Witch level of wrong.
As Big Druid working as Big Priest would be wrong.
Balanced mana cheating strategies must require more complicated strategies than just playing a card on t4.
The Druid class showcases plenty of good examples:

-Aviana and Kun require you to reach 10 mana and having them in your hand plus the other cards in order to execute the gameplan.
That can be disrupted from heavy aggro, secrets, Dirty Rat (Neutral epic card) and milling.
I play the Togwaggle deck once in a while, and it has plenty of healthy counterplay against it.
-Astral Communion Discards your hand and puts you in topdeck mode
-Jungle Giants requires you to do the quest
-Twig of the World Tree requires you to break the weapon.

Mana cheating to be balanced requires a Drawback that currently the Barnes highroll win condition does not have.
Take a look at 8/8 minions that can be played out faster than usual.
Giants have all special requirements with a high starting mana costs (And guess what, NSW was nerfed because it nullified that requirement)
Bittertide Hydra gets your hp at risk for playing it.
Fel Reaver discards your top 3 cards for every card played.
Flamewreathed Faceless has 2 Overload

Big Rogue would be close to unaffected from a fix to Barnes like that as its goal is to generate value. In some cases it would be even better (Situations where you might want to kill a resurrected Sneed spawn to get a legendary)
And would still get raped by aggro, as it doesn't manage to resummon Obsidian Statues.

Spiteful Summoner received a nerf for the very same reason.
Quest Rogue was nerfed TWO times for the same reason.
Corridor Creeper was nerfed for the same reason.
Possessed Lackey was nerfed for the same reason.
Why the Barnes copy should be any different?

Shadow Essence is a mana cheat card which is ok because it's 6 mana and puts 5/5 stats on the board, and most decks have more time to through their gameplan (Aggro decks might have already killed you), draw into defensive options to deal with it (Control decks have mana and more draw for hard removals).

It's like playing vs Jade Druid. If you don't have a reliable way to OTK or burst down before the shudderwock, you know that you have already lost. So off to another game. And actually I am ok with Shudderwock decks, I don't find them too oppressive. (Jade Druid was way worse)

Quote from FirePalyHSplayer >>

Quote from RavenSunHP >>

We also made good points about highroll + powerlevel of Barnes within Priest, but were also ignored saying that we are just arguing about feeling, that there are counters and that we should be smart enough to play them.

Apex is people calling for salt against Big Priest, after having played 4 games and not having read one single post of the topic.

Let me also remind how people were deeming NSW as perfectly fine based on winrate and meta counters. Yet it was nerfed: not on the basis of winrate or meta counters, and neither of popularity.

PS: nobody here wants to kill Big Priest, and Barnes neither, actually. Just a re-vision that correctly and consistently sets Big Priest in a precise archetype and curve (Cubelock style).

 I agree with you. I was just upset a little bit about fikart's logic. It's obviously bad from other people to not post anything constructive and say only: Lol. Salt. and stufflike that. That's why I don't make posts like this a lot and I'm talking about something based on my CCG experience and expereience with the deck. Btw I actually really like points what you've made and I'm curious what is Lyra going to answer so that's why I'm not joining in into discussion between you two. :D

Also about Naga nerf. Naga was nerfed because the Wild Reddit got blown up by this and that is one of the reasons. However, the Giant decks were more consistent due to the fact that Naga is epic card so you can run 2 copies of it, Giant decks had always strong card draw and also the fact that Naga turns were generally more powerfull. Like the only case where Priest was more powerfull that Naga decks was coin turn 3 Barnes into Yshaarj into big Yshaarj, Then Yshaarj getting killed and then ressurected on turn 4 with 2 Ressurects. That is the only and really unlikely way how Priest could have more stats on board than Naga.

And I know that we are discussing Barnes nerf but as I've mentioned on the first page, I don't agree with any of the nerf of Barnes because it would hurt the other decks. The only reason why he is so oprresive in Priest is because Priest has its ressurect tools. Big Rogue with 1/1 Kel'Thuzad on turn 5 thanks to Kobold can get out of hand way more yet no one complaints about it because Big Rogue lacks heals and that's the only thing that makes here bottom of Tier 2 (And mechanic is basically the same, Big Dudes are coming into play wayy earlier before turn 8 or 9).

 

 Big Rogue would take no nerf out of a change like that as the 1/1 minion from Barnes has no chance of being resurrected at full stats, if not from N'Zoth (so later in the game where it is possible to answer to a full board) or some statically hard setups.
The problem with Barnes is the synergy of the copy created with Resurrection effects.
And actually, there is already a sleeping threat limited by the absence of cards.... but what if Druid got access to more tools in the future, similar to Big Priest?
Because Witching Hour is a thing, so are Tyrantus and Charged Devilsaur. Good luck clearing a Tyrantus on turn 5.
Naga Sea Witch synergy with Giants was an abomination, actually the closest comparison you can do with Barnes is Spiteful Summoner.
And Spiteful Summoner was much much weaker than Barnes on T4. (Stronger later in the game, more useless at end game)
The issue I am trying to address is not Big Priest, which would still be a strong deck without Barnes, it would just be weaker to Aggro, but the unhealthy synergy tied to resurrecting big minions too early.

A lot of things that did not have a huge drawback in cheating out too much mana too soon got nerfed. Innervate got nerfed. Mana cheating is THAT good.
Barnes in Big Priest on an average roll allows you to basically summon for 4 mana a 3/4 and a token with an effect that alone can generate insane value, we can say at least 3 mana worth or more (Killing a minion and Taunt, 8 damage to something, get a Lich King card, Recruit a minion.... that's a Gather your party. It's 6 mana plus a token that can potentially keep generating.). But it's not just that. Then you get to resurrect the minion to full stats, a minion that you did not draw. Barnes in Big Priest actually gets you a "Patches" effect. It is basically drawing you a minion and playing it for what you need.

All of these would be already good on its own.

But the problem is what happens after. As an average play you can resurrect 8 mana worth of stats or more out 4 mana. As an insane play you can generate on turn 5 16 mana worth with just 4 mana on turn 5. The spellstone for 7 mana gives you back more or less 27 mana worth of minions, with no side effect.
All of this is not taking into account how much more value in mana can generate cards like The Lich King, Ragnaros, Obsidian Statue and so on.
All of this can be done consistently when playing Barnes, and I'm speaking staying low on mana values.

Can it be countered? With specific tech cards it can. But these tech cards are class restricted or too situational (Tinkmaster Overspark, really?)
and would be played suboptimally to prevent too strong of a synergy.
If you are a Hunter, Warrior (Cornered Sentry only counters Resurrect), Rogue, Paladin or Druid you can't do anything to prevent it directly. The closest to that is Tinkmaster Overspark which is a legendary that requires you to be able to kill Barnes without having minions on your board and possibly giving your opponent a 5/5, which puts you at disadvantage anyways.

The only way to actually interact and ruin the strategy based on resurrecting minions without fixing Barnes would be introducing the possibility of interacting with the Graveyards. That alone would add an entire new layer of gameplay that requires a lot of work to put in. (It would make also the game more interesting and I would love that addition, but I don't know if they will ever do that

Quote from Mesmerize >>

The whole argument most people are trying to make is the deck isn't fun to play against it's not unbeatable no deck could ever hold that title, that's the way card games are. What a lot of people are arguing is it is unfun to play against when Priest has so many cheap spells to return minions that died from Barnes or Shadow Essence. Barnes himself honestly isn't broken he's just broken with all the synergy Priest has. I still stand by that if they want to resurrect something from Barnes it should come back as a 1/1 not a full stated minion that way it doesn't actually nerf Barnes in any way.

Yes it's true decks can have tech cards for Big Priest but in a singleton deck how often are you going to draw these cards? Even in a non-singleton deck how often will you draw a 1 of for tech against Priest? I'd wager to say not often even if you hard mulligan for it you could lose valuable cards for late game doing that. A lot of decks can keep up with them late game but as previously stated they can run away with the early game very easily with T3/T4 Barnes into resurrect crap which is not enjoyable for a lot of players. How do your tech cards prevent those situations? What if you don't draw Hex or Polymorph before turn T4 when they've done Barnes and have a way of killing it on board? You bring up all these cute tech cards yet doesn't change a thing if you don't draw it. If you don't draw an answer it's very easy for them to take away the game.

All that said though I've actually been playing Big Rogue and I seem to be able to get far more minions into play then them at times makes for some funny matchups. I feel bad for every other class that gets brutalized by Priest though.

 This is actually my point.

The change proposed to Barnes would not affect Malygos combo decks. It would not affect Big Rogue. It would not affect rattlebased decks. Hell, it would even keep the Y'Shaarj synergy.
It's just to fix the anomaly of having to deal with the huge bodies starting from turn 4/5.
As a matter of fact, Big Priest could cut Barnes from the list after a change like that and with some changes still being a good deck (Having Shadow Essence not fucking up anymore summoning Barnes)

Possessed Lackey was nerfed for much much less.

Against the "argument" of Who cares is Wild.
There is so much money that can be milked out of the Wild format, if you think that Blizzard will ignore taking care of it you are deluded.
Wait until it will be possible to purchase Wild packs. Because they will get there, no doubts.

If you have to craft Genn, do it for decks that you can compose, otherwise you are investing 1600 dust, but not actually using them.

Leeroy is a dependable finisher and he's not limited only to aggro decks (historically see Miracle Rogue and Renolock). Part of classic set, he's not going away ever. (Unless he gets hall of famed, but then again, it's 1600 dust you'd get back)

You wanna have fun? Craft Rexxar. Just do it. He will be played in all Hunter decks except Odd Hunter until he rotates. And I can't express myself properly on the crazy shit that you can pull off with him in Wild Format.

It's no mystery that Barnes has been kind of a powerful card since release, but the problem has escalated to nerf level since the release of Eternal Servitude.

Big Priest at is current state is an unhealthy archetype that allows you to snowball at turn 5 without drawback or counterplay whatsoever if you can play Barnes at turn 3 or 4. The only truly counter to it are Potion of Madness and Shadow Madness. (Hex or Polymorph on a 1/1 against a deck of big minions is embarassing, and we're still talking about class cards) 

Barnes needs a fix, very simple fix, that can let him be still an awesome card.
Just have him summon a 1/1 Token with the effect of a minion inside your deck instead of a copy of a minion inside your deck.
It's really that easy.

I would still keep it in my collection for all the amazing uses it might have. (Deathrattle, Malygos, Y'Shaarj shenanigans are still on the table)

Quote from RazorKiller >>

I recently bought 40+ packs from each of the last few expansions. The good news: I unpacked four legendaries! The bad news: I unpacked four shitty legendaries!

King Togwaggle
Arfus
Temporus
Splintergraft

Thank you RNGesus for blessing me with more meme-y legendaries to add to my collection, which already has Blood-Queen Lana'thel, Emeriss, Blackhowl Gunspire, and King Mukla. You'll be giving me a Duskfallen Aviana next, won't you?

God I love this deck. 3-0 so far.
It's the first time that I actually manage to make good use of Emeriss.
6/6 MCT. 10/14 N'Zoth. 6/12 Houndmaster 8/6 Piloted Shredder....
Survive the early game and your opponent will cry. A lot.

Corpse Eater: 10 Mana 0/1

Remove all minions from your opponent's graveyard and gain their stats

Too stronk?

Played 4 games with this. Oh my god.
I defeated a Cubelock spamming emotes.

I defeated a Spiteful Priest EASY. (He played Spiteful on 6 and 8 getting Deathwing and Giant)
Toxmonger is SO strong with Elven Archer. With Shaw on board he couldn't play anymore. Too much shit with Poisonous and Rush.

Grumble is perfectly balanced. I'd nerf Shudderwock by denying him to be replicated. or putting a drawback like: "Battlecrys after playing Shudderwock are no longer effective.
He can still be used as a Win Condition, but needs a deck that does not rely on something that's more similar to a glitch than a strategy.