Was playing in arena and the opponent had Baron Geddon out. He dropped an Acidic Swamp Ooze and had a Stormwind Knight out with 2 health left. He totems a healing totem and ends his turn. Baron Geddon drops everything to 0... they should all be dead. Then, healing totem triggers (at 0 health after damage has been dealt and it should be dead...) and heals everything to 1 HP.
It is working as intend. Different from MTG, this game has no stack, everything resolves toguether.
There's some sort of stack (it seems to be FIFO, first-in, first-out), because if the totem had healed before Geddon damaged, then all those minions would have died.
And Nuba does seem to have a point. It seems it resolves together. While Poetic you are saying if the totem had healed first, minions would have died. But the point exactly is that there isn't a FIFO, although animation may suggest there is.
And Nuba does seem to have a point. It seems it resolves together. While Poetic you are saying if the totem had healed first, minions would have died. But the point exactly is that there isn't a FIFO, although animation may suggest there is.
There is an order that events are resolved, because I recall this being an issue with Sylvanas.
Ok, I might have explained myself wrongly. There IS a order, but that doesnt mean that everything wont happen. The order is: whichever entered the battlefield later, will resolve first. BUT everything will resolve, because they were already activated, there is no "stack" because there is no "X will counter Y"
Edit: or maybe there is a stack, I think its a matter of perspective. its def not the same as MTG tho lol
Ok, I might have explained myself wrongly. There IS a order, but that doesnt mean that everything wont happen. The order is: whichever entered the battlefield later, will resolve first. BUT everything will resolve, because they were already activated, there is no "stack" because there is no "X will counter Y"
Edit: or maybe there is a stack, I think its a matter of perspective. its def not the same as MTG tho lol
That is a stack, by definition. I think the difference is that, unlike in MtG, 'state based effects' don't get checked until everything on the stack has resolved. In MtG SBEs get checked at every layer of the stack, but in Hearthstone they only get checked at the bottom of the stack. So even if a minion gets reduced to zero health, it doesn't actually die until all the effects finish resolving.
Personally, I don't like the stack system in Hearthstone. Sometimes it can be hard to remember which card entered play first, especially if they've both been in play for a few turns and a lot of other stuff has happened since then. Luckily situations like that don't happen very often. Most common scenario is probably Cairne Bloodhoof or Savannah Highmane versus Sylvanas Windrunner or Abomination. The order of their deathrattles is pretty important.
Actually I think there is some form of stack, it's just not very clearly defined what events go on the stack and what don't. Most things trigger in the order they get played, but it isn't clear when the game checks for state-based effects (when things die)
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I'm so glad there is prejudice against playing hunter/zoo/[insert FotM deck here]. People like that make the life so much easier for those of us who play to win.
There is definitely an order of events. The classic example being Sylvanas versus Cairne, where Sylvanas would not steal Baine (does not depend on order of play).
I admit I'm too lazy to do it myself but if someone could come up with a list of events, on what happens first for all scenarios, it would be great! Could be made into a sticky!
If effects resolve together, it is ok in this situation as 2 health minion gets (-2) health from geddon and (+1) health from totem, so it has 1 hp and lives
But what if minion has 1hp, gets hit by geddon (-2) and byt totem (+1) which equals to 0hp? Does it die or the game calculates 1-2=0, 0+1 =1?
If effects resolve together, it is ok in this situation as 2 health minion gets (-2) health from geddon and (+1) health from totem, so it has 1 hp and lives
But what if minion has 1hp, gets hit by geddon (-2) and byt totem (+1) which equals to 0hp? Does it die or the game calculates 1-2=0, 0+1 =1?
I'm not sure, but I think it would die. I think the game recognises negative numbers.
Lol, yesterday i brought a Azure Drake (Taunted and Buffed by a Argus) to 1 health, then I silenced him and then he was a 4/4 again? I think this is totally bullshit and should be fixed by blizzard. -.- Afterwards I lost because my Exploding Trap did not kill the Azure Drake -.-
Lol, yesterday i brought a Azure Drake (Taunted and Buffed by a Argus) to 1 health, then I silenced him and then he was a 4/4 again? I think this is totally bullshit and should be fixed by blizzard. -.- Afterwards I lost because my Exploding Trap did not kill the Azure Drake -.-
That's because you used Hunter's Mark to magically reduce the Drake's health, instead of damage. Silence removes the Hunter's Mark effect, obviously. If you'd damaged the Drake down to 1 health, silence would have left it at 1.
Silence isn't just for removing positive buffs, it's also for removing negative buffs like Hunter's Mark.
Lol, yesterday i brought a Azure Drake (Taunted and Buffed by a Argus) to 1 health, then I silenced him and then he was a 4/4 again? I think this is totally bullshit and should be fixed by blizzard. -.- Afterwards I lost because my Exploding Trap did not kill the Azure Drake -.-
That's because you used Hunter's Mark to magically reduce the Drake's health, instead of damage. Silence removes the Hunter's Mark effect, obviously. If you'd damaged the Drake down to 1 health, silence would have left it at 1.
Silence isn't just for removing positive buffs, it's also for removing negative buffs like Hunter's Mark.
LOL, I forgot about the fact that I used Hunter's Mark. Sorrrryyyy and thx :D
It's probably working as intended. Both cards say "at the end of your turn" and I think that the game understands that as a single action (triggering everything at the same time but the animation will show one by one).
Since the animation follow an order you may think that the effect as well willl follow it, which doesn't actually happen (and I think it should).
Here is a thought, and maybe I am looking at it the wrong way. In the case of damage and healing, all effects are applied at the same time, in this case, turning baron 2 dmg AOE into a 1 dmg AOE, not reducing all health to zero and then raising to 1. The animation shows it that way because all cards have to have the full effect recognized by the player, and is a state based effect. In the case of death rattles, if two creatures die at the same time, death rattle occurs the instant the creature dies, checks the state of the board and resolves. With windrunner, she dies, sees nothing on the table (State based effect) and resolves. With cairne, he dies, waits for state based effects to trigger and resolve then resolves himself. here is an easy way to look at it in script - windrunner attacks cairne - Lethal damage is dealt to both creatures - Death Rattles trigger (Cairne and Windrunner) - State based effects trigger (Windrunner checks status of board sees no creatures, Cairne dies single to summon Baine) - State based effects resolve (Windrunner has no target board is empty, Cairne is dead Baine is being summoned) - Death Rattles resolve (Windrunners Death Rattles "fizzles", Baine enters board) - New state based in effect (Baine on board all future events occur from this point forth)
This is why windrunner does not take a baine bloodhoof. This is the best way I see the order of events in the game. The more complex the card the more layers in essence the events have for others to trigger. This can take a ton of time to think through and even more when you have multiple triggers and state based effects occuring. We cant have a stack like MTG, we can pause it and move through it at our own speed, with hearthstone we cannot it all happens no matter what unless we want a crappy clunky UI, and if you want that, play MTGO.
We cant have a stack like MTG, we can pause it and move through it at our own speed, with hearthstone we cannot it all happens no matter what unless we want a crappy clunky UI, and if you want that, play MTGO.
Having the rules and interactions formalized and written together in a rulebook wouldn't clutter the interface.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm so glad there is prejudice against playing hunter/zoo/[insert FotM deck here]. People like that make the life so much easier for those of us who play to win.
It would be nice to be able to access a book that says "if X happens Y will occur", believe me I wish we had something like that. What I was referring to was an interface that could start and stop actions during events like MTGO, which would ruin the game.Plus they want the game moving fast and able to not have to deal with pauses and starts so that style of UI is not possible with hearthstone. I get the "need" but in reality it is a ton of trial and error which is part of the game. It sucks losing a game because you thought something would occur in a specific order and was wrong, I have had it happen a few times. But I learned from it and it reduced future mistakes I normally would of made. The game is streamlined and works very well. This is also the "first" real season, they will make changes and listen to the player base. Give them time to work on it. They have like 20 people working on the game and we all want different things like replays and new content. They cant give it all at once.
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Was playing in arena and the opponent had Baron Geddon out. He dropped an Acidic Swamp Ooze and had a Stormwind Knight out with 2 health left. He totems a healing totem and ends his turn. Baron Geddon drops everything to 0... they should all be dead. Then, healing totem triggers (at 0 health after damage has been dealt and it should be dead...) and heals everything to 1 HP.
Is this working as intended?
It is. Though, I couldn't explain the order of the mechanics that allows it work.
Personally, I think all events that fire should check the health of the firing minion, and if at 0 or less health it should not fire.
Poetic.
It is working as intend.
Different from MTG, this game has no stack, everything resolves toguether.
Retired Hearthstone Columnist
There's some sort of stack (it seems to be FIFO, first-in, first-out), because if the totem had healed before Geddon damaged, then all those minions would have died.
Poetic.
This is a very interesting find!
And Nuba does seem to have a point. It seems it resolves together. While Poetic you are saying if the totem had healed first, minions would have died. But the point exactly is that there isn't a FIFO, although animation may suggest there is.
There is an order that events are resolved, because I recall this being an issue with Sylvanas.
Poetic.
Ok, I might have explained myself wrongly.
There IS a order, but that doesnt mean that everything wont happen.
The order is: whichever entered the battlefield later, will resolve first.
BUT everything will resolve, because they were already activated, there is no "stack" because there is no "X will counter Y"
Edit: or maybe there is a stack, I think its a matter of perspective. its def not the same as MTG tho lol
Retired Hearthstone Columnist
That is a stack, by definition. I think the difference is that, unlike in MtG, 'state based effects' don't get checked until everything on the stack has resolved. In MtG SBEs get checked at every layer of the stack, but in Hearthstone they only get checked at the bottom of the stack. So even if a minion gets reduced to zero health, it doesn't actually die until all the effects finish resolving.
Personally, I don't like the stack system in Hearthstone. Sometimes it can be hard to remember which card entered play first, especially if they've both been in play for a few turns and a lot of other stuff has happened since then. Luckily situations like that don't happen very often. Most common scenario is probably Cairne Bloodhoof or Savannah Highmane versus Sylvanas Windrunner or Abomination. The order of their deathrattles is pretty important.
Actually I think there is some form of stack, it's just not very clearly defined what events go on the stack and what don't. Most things trigger in the order they get played, but it isn't clear when the game checks for state-based effects (when things die)
I'm so glad there is prejudice against playing hunter/zoo/[insert FotM deck here]. People like that make the life so much easier for those of us who play to win.
There is definitely an order of events. The classic example being Sylvanas versus Cairne, where Sylvanas would not steal Baine (does not depend on order of play).
I admit I'm too lazy to do it myself but if someone could come up with a list of events, on what happens first for all scenarios, it would be great! Could be made into a sticky!
In this case i have a question.
If effects resolve together, it is ok in this situation as 2 health minion gets (-2) health from geddon and (+1) health from totem, so it has 1 hp and lives
But what if minion has 1hp, gets hit by geddon (-2) and byt totem (+1) which equals to 0hp? Does it die or the game calculates 1-2=0, 0+1 =1?
I'm not sure, but I think it would die. I think the game recognises negative numbers.
Lol, yesterday i brought a Azure Drake (Taunted and Buffed by a Argus) to 1 health, then I silenced him and then he was a 4/4 again? I think this is totally bullshit and should be fixed by blizzard. -.- Afterwards I lost because my Exploding Trap did not kill the Azure Drake -.-
That's because you used Hunter's Mark to magically reduce the Drake's health, instead of damage. Silence removes the Hunter's Mark effect, obviously. If you'd damaged the Drake down to 1 health, silence would have left it at 1.
Silence isn't just for removing positive buffs, it's also for removing negative buffs like Hunter's Mark.
LOL, I forgot about the fact that I used Hunter's Mark. Sorrrryyyy and thx :D
It's probably working as intended. Both cards say "at the end of your turn" and I think that the game understands that as a single action (triggering everything at the same time but the animation will show one by one).
Since the animation follow an order you may think that the effect as well willl follow it, which doesn't actually happen (and I think it should).
Here is a thought, and maybe I am looking at it the wrong way.
In the case of damage and healing, all effects are applied at the same time, in this case, turning baron 2 dmg AOE into a 1 dmg AOE, not reducing all health to zero and then raising to 1. The animation shows it that way because all cards have to have the full effect recognized by the player, and is a state based effect.
In the case of death rattles, if two creatures die at the same time, death rattle occurs the instant the creature dies, checks the state of the board and resolves. With windrunner, she dies, sees nothing on the table (State based effect) and resolves. With cairne, he dies, waits for state based effects to trigger and resolve then resolves himself.
here is an easy way to look at it in script
- windrunner attacks cairne
- Lethal damage is dealt to both creatures
- Death Rattles trigger (Cairne and Windrunner)
- State based effects trigger (Windrunner checks status of board sees no creatures, Cairne dies single to summon Baine)
- State based effects resolve (Windrunner has no target board is empty, Cairne is dead Baine is being summoned)
- Death Rattles resolve (Windrunners Death Rattles "fizzles", Baine enters board)
- New state based in effect (Baine on board all future events occur from this point forth)
This is why windrunner does not take a baine bloodhoof.
This is the best way I see the order of events in the game. The more complex the card the more layers in essence the events have for others to trigger. This can take a ton of time to think through and even more when you have multiple triggers and state based effects occuring.
We cant have a stack like MTG, we can pause it and move through it at our own speed, with hearthstone we cannot it all happens no matter what unless we want a crappy clunky UI, and if you want that, play MTGO.
Having the rules and interactions formalized and written together in a rulebook wouldn't clutter the interface.
I'm so glad there is prejudice against playing hunter/zoo/[insert FotM deck here]. People like that make the life so much easier for those of us who play to win.
It would be nice to be able to access a book that says "if X happens Y will occur", believe me I wish we had something like that. What I was referring to was an interface that could start and stop actions during events like MTGO, which would ruin the game.Plus they want the game moving fast and able to not have to deal with pauses and starts so that style of UI is not possible with hearthstone. I get the "need" but in reality it is a ton of trial and error which is part of the game. It sucks losing a game because you thought something would occur in a specific order and was wrong, I have had it happen a few times. But I learned from it and it reduced future mistakes I normally would of made. The game is streamlined and works very well. This is also the "first" real season, they will make changes and listen to the player base. Give them time to work on it. They have like 20 people working on the game and we all want different things like replays and new content. They cant give it all at once.