I don't even think it's the sidedecks or the lack of info, it's more that there are very long periods of time where there are zero counters for things. If I play a fatigue deck I should be able to counter aggro, Kezan came out long after Mad Scientist, and it feels like everything takes half a year for them to change or add counter cards to if it ever is a real issue. Patron, miracle etc.
I started playing after BRM so I didn't get to see a lot of the previous decks that I hear about like Miracle. But I haven't seen one yet that's a real problem. I rage a bit after I get smashed by a Patron but 9/10 times I lost because I played badly so I can live with that. I haven't seen any decks since I started playing that didn't have a counter of some type.
I made a pally control deck that has decimated most Patrons/Face I come across and does okay against everything else. Doubt I could win a tourny with it, but it's playable and a good counter to Patron.
No way. Patron is absurdly obnoxious. It may take a while to get the cards per say but with seemingly unlimited armor stacking and card draw, its not hard to get said cards. With Thaurissan, it can happen even sooner. I know, I know: Dont have any small minions out there, make them play their removal cards early, use a certain deck, etc. etc. Hardly works.
Face Hunter is at least "honest". Also, combine Patron Warrior with Berserker and its sooo over the top that its almost funny. Almost.
I completely agree with OP. Face hunter is a plague that needs to be dealt with. Whether hero power or something else, nerfin' needs to be done. For the last week or so I've been perpetually around rank 10, cause apart from all other classes, it is the menace to society(and HS community), that is face hunter, which is keeping me from ranking. I'm not about to go double healbot and mega taunt, just to counter these unscrupulous twits. I've got relatively balanced games against all other classes/decks, except face hunter. That is saying a lot! They shamelessly spam their face damage, and it's insanely infuriating to be dead to these effed up shenanigans without the perfect draws/counters.
But yea, fundamentally, it might just be the hero power that needs a drastic change. Off the top of my head, I was thinking something like, "give +1/+1 to a beast", as the hero power, seeing as their main theme IS in fact beasts. It's a fair hero power and would mitigate the crazy fixation with "face".
And to those defending the face hunter(they're probably playing the class themselves): Just because Blizzard are severely lacking in doing regular balancing(ultimately their default), doesn't mean that you should exploit that and create a toxic environment for the HS player base. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD, which also applies to many other aspects of life.
They should change their whole deck, but you're not willing to change 1 or 2 cards to tech against them? Doesn't make sense refrigerator. Maybe don't play ladder and you'll be less frustrated. Or play ladder without adapting to meta and don't complain when you lose.
both grim patron and hunter can win battles easily. playing against them is quite annoying.
but as for batttling against hunter, it would be quick. we would be overwhelm by small minions, hero power and weapons. but hunters can be defeated pretty easily with aoe (clearing their minions), taunt minions, heals, armors, and alexstraza.
now let's start talking grim patron... against grim it's long battle and certainly not easy. and as for myself, i do not like long games, either i win quick or lose quickly. i disagree it has to do with skills, it is more luck like many other decks. the pattern is obvious. grim patron doesn't really have any weakness. against aggro, rushing decks no problem, weapons are ready to clean single minions. running out of steam like aggro deck... never (with the all drawing card minions and battle rage (similar to buzzard + unleash hound pre-nerf). please remember, grim patron are using cheap mana cost minions, more similar to aggro deck rather than control.
ultimately, grim patron combo can be used to clean the bord (please stop saying not to use minions dmg less than 3, not all class have the luxury of using high damage minions) while also filling the boards with never ending minions. and to make matter worse is because not all classes can easily wipe clean the board full of grim. for example druid. and some classes need combo to clear the board, like priest and paladins.
and the worst would be the combo containing frothing... it is outragously cheap mana wise, and easy to be buffed... minions with 10+, even 15, 20 or higher damage and with charge is uncontainable. let's compare with king crush? leeroy? these legends and other charge minions doesn't even come close to what frothing can do in terms of damage, mana cost and even the dust for making them.
hunter is annoying and most cases too overwhelming... but grim patron combo (and frothing) is overpowered. sorry for the long post
Don't play face hunter, but I'm constantly having to defend them. Get this simple fact and maybe you'll understand. Face hunter deck is the cheapest competitive deck that can be made. So...if you are new or with not much dust/cards, this is your only option if you want to play ranked.
Understand, good.
Now the next point, if u r complaining about their hero power I feel sorry for you, Blizzard has stated repeatedly they aren't going to change it. BTW any player with half a brain knows Warlock has the best hero power. Learn to play.
If you're lower rank (20 to 5) Then you think patron's are ok...you play less of them and the people you do meet playing them suck. If you're higher rank (5 to legend) then you understand why Patron gets so much hate. The punish you for playing minions, especially anything sub 3 atk, and hit you with a from the hand combo that does over 30dmg. It's total BS - the teck is in a tier all of it's very own - above ramp druid, mid hunter, freeze mage, eboladin etc....yes even face hunter.
The stats speak for themselves, just go google patron winrate, there have been a couple of group-pro stats tests. Patron with a good pilot is damn near 70% winrate against just about every deck. It's OP, and needs nerfing.
If you're lower rank (20 to 5) Then you think patron's are ok...you play less of them and the people you do meet playing them suck. If you're higher rank (5 to legend) then you understand why Patron gets so much hate. The punish you for playing minions, especially anything sub 3 atk, and hit you with a from the hand combo that does over 30dmg. It's total BS - the teck is in a tier all of it's very own - above ramp druid, mid hunter, freeze mage, eboladin etc....yes even face hunter.
The stats speak for themselves, just go google patron winrate, there have been a couple of group-pro stats tests. Patron with a good pilot is damn near 70% winrate against just about every deck. It's OP, and needs nerfing.
Play Handlock against Patron. Win. Rinse. Repeat. Enjoy. Profit.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.
Patron is a one trick pony. It's a powerful one trick pony, but if you beat that trick you win. It's that simple. Just make sure that by turn seven you have no minions on the board less than attack power 3 and have a board clear ready. Mulligan for your board clear at the start of the match and hold onto it. Hold your win condition cards until you've beaten their combo. It's not broken or even unfair. It has to satisfy a lot of conditions to get it's combo going and all you have to do to win quite often is play one card at the right time.
Once you defeat their combo, they're pretty much done. If you're playing on the ladder at the moment you should be playing some sort of counter to Patron. It's why my Mech Mage loses to Patron most games; because I don't run a flamestrike or any other board clear. I'm fine with that though.
And to those defending the face hunter(they're probably playing the class themselves): Just because Blizzard are severely lacking in doing regular balancing(ultimately their default), doesn't mean that you should exploit that and create a toxic environment for the HS player base. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD, which also applies to many other aspects of life.
Exploit? Ridiculous. FaceHunter is working as intended. Have you ever played any other CCG before? Every single one worth it's salt has an aggro equivalent to facehunter. Hell, aggro decks are regularly played at top level Magic Pro Tours. If you can't come up with something to beat aggro, you really need to re-evaluate how you're playing the game.
Not the point, beating aggro isn't hard. But it means you have to play the slowest ranking decks in terms of stars per hour. Priest decks can handle both hunter decks and zoo but, in addition to catastrophic win rates against patron and handlock, you'll enjoy your 20 minutes wins.
What governs the meta is the stars/hour rate, not the win/loss. Hence all the aggro decks with not-so-great winrates but that get you up the ladder the fastest anyway.
But yea, fundamentally, it might just be the hero power that needs a drastic change. Off the top of my head, I was thinking something like, "give +1/+1 to a beast", as the hero power, seeing as their main theme IS in fact beasts. It's a fair hero power and would mitigate the crazy fixation with "face".
But you can't use that hero power every turn. People do need to realize that they can't make a hero power that you can't use EVERY turn. Anything that requires minion interaction is automatically out, because if you have no minions you can't push the button. Sure, healing on turn 2 could be a dead play, but you can DO it.
And to those defending the face hunter(they're probably playing the class themselves): Just because Blizzard are severely lacking in doing regular balancing(ultimately their default), doesn't mean that you should exploit that and create a toxic environment for the HS player base. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD, which also applies to many other aspects of life.
Exploit? Ridiculous. FaceHunter is working as intended. Have you ever played any other CCG before? Every single one worth it's salt has an aggro equivalent to facehunter. Hell, aggro decks are regularly played at top level Magic Pro Tours. If you can't come up with something to beat aggro, you really need to re-evaluate how you're playing the game.
Not the point, beating aggro isn't hard. But it means you have to play the slowest ranking decks in terms of stars per hour. Priest decks can handle both hunter decks and zoo but, in addition to catastrophic win rates against patron and handlock, you'll enjoy your 20 minutes wins.
What governs the meta is the stars/hour rate, not the win/loss. Hence all the aggro decks with not-so-great winrates but that get you up the ladder the fastest anyway.
Bad luck? Essentially what you're saying is no one should play fast decks because it means you have to rank slower... If you don't like playing slow games that's okay, but no one has to conform to the way you like to play.
only very cheap decks suffer with this patron meta. Deal with it f**cking zoo and huntard HAHA.
do you realise grim patron deck is also very cheap? and even so, they can beat the decks you have mentioned as well. mage and handlock will provide a higher winning percentage imho,
every deck can tech against facehunter and other all-in aggro strategies with some neutral taunt and lifegain minions, but only a few classes have answeres against 2-3 patrons. alsom they can OTK you for 20+dmg.
In LiquidHearth's Power Ranks Face Hunter is rank 11 this season, below 10 other decks such as zoo, Combo Druid, Freeze Mage, Midrange Paladin, Control Warrior, etc.
If you believe it is a powerful/overpowered deck you should play it yourself. Face Hunter cannot be considered "cheap" when Blizzard does not express any intention to nerf it, and playing Face Hunter is not against the rules of the game.
I started playing after BRM so I didn't get to see a lot of the previous decks that I hear about like Miracle. But I haven't seen one yet that's a real problem. I rage a bit after I get smashed by a Patron but 9/10 times I lost because I played badly so I can live with that. I haven't seen any decks since I started playing that didn't have a counter of some type.
I made a pally control deck that has decimated most Patrons/Face I come across and does okay against everything else. Doubt I could win a tourny with it, but it's playable and a good counter to Patron.
No way. Patron is absurdly obnoxious. It may take a while to get the cards per say but with seemingly unlimited armor stacking and card draw, its not hard to get said cards. With Thaurissan, it can happen even sooner. I know, I know: Dont have any small minions out there, make them play their removal cards early, use a certain deck, etc. etc. Hardly works.
Face Hunter is at least "honest". Also, combine Patron Warrior with Berserker and its sooo over the top that its almost funny. Almost.
I win due to skill and lose due to bad RNG. :D
They should change their whole deck, but you're not willing to change 1 or 2 cards to tech against them? Doesn't make sense refrigerator. Maybe don't play ladder and you'll be less frustrated. Or play ladder without adapting to meta and don't complain when you lose.
both grim patron and hunter can win battles easily. playing against them is quite annoying.
but as for batttling against hunter, it would be quick. we would be overwhelm by small minions, hero power and weapons. but hunters can be defeated pretty easily with aoe (clearing their minions), taunt minions, heals, armors, and alexstraza.
now let's start talking grim patron... against grim it's long battle and certainly not easy. and as for myself, i do not like long games, either i win quick or lose quickly. i disagree it has to do with skills, it is more luck like many other decks. the pattern is obvious. grim patron doesn't really have any weakness. against aggro, rushing decks no problem, weapons are ready to clean single minions. running out of steam like aggro deck... never (with the all drawing card minions and battle rage (similar to buzzard + unleash hound pre-nerf). please remember, grim patron are using cheap mana cost minions, more similar to aggro deck rather than control.
ultimately, grim patron combo can be used to clean the bord (please stop saying not to use minions dmg less than 3, not all class have the luxury of using high damage minions) while also filling the boards with never ending minions. and to make matter worse is because not all classes can easily wipe clean the board full of grim. for example druid. and some classes need combo to clear the board, like priest and paladins.
and the worst would be the combo containing frothing... it is outragously cheap mana wise, and easy to be buffed... minions with 10+, even 15, 20 or higher damage and with charge is uncontainable. let's compare with king crush? leeroy? these legends and other charge minions doesn't even come close to what frothing can do in terms of damage, mana cost and even the dust for making them.
hunter is annoying and most cases too overwhelming... but grim patron combo (and frothing) is overpowered. sorry for the long post
Don't play face hunter, but I'm constantly having to defend them. Get this simple fact and maybe you'll understand. Face hunter deck is the cheapest competitive deck that can be made. So...if you are new or with not much dust/cards, this is your only option if you want to play ranked.
Understand, good.
Now the next point, if u r complaining about their hero power I feel sorry for you, Blizzard has stated repeatedly they aren't going to change it. BTW any player with half a brain knows Warlock has the best hero power. Learn to play.
If you're lower rank (20 to 5) Then you think patron's are ok...you play less of them and the people you do meet playing them suck. If you're higher rank (5 to legend) then you understand why Patron gets so much hate. The punish you for playing minions, especially anything sub 3 atk, and hit you with a from the hand combo that does over 30dmg. It's total BS - the teck is in a tier all of it's very own - above ramp druid, mid hunter, freeze mage, eboladin etc....yes even face hunter.
The stats speak for themselves, just go google patron winrate, there have been a couple of group-pro stats tests. Patron with a good pilot is damn near 70% winrate against just about every deck. It's OP, and needs nerfing.
Play Handlock against Patron. Win. Rinse. Repeat. Enjoy. Profit.
Used to be a proud Handlock player.
Legend 17 times.
Still flirting with the ladder from times to times with Renolock.
Patron is a one trick pony. It's a powerful one trick pony, but if you beat that trick you win. It's that simple. Just make sure that by turn seven you have no minions on the board less than attack power 3 and have a board clear ready. Mulligan for your board clear at the start of the match and hold onto it. Hold your win condition cards until you've beaten their combo. It's not broken or even unfair. It has to satisfy a lot of conditions to get it's combo going and all you have to do to win quite often is play one card at the right time.
Once you defeat their combo, they're pretty much done. If you're playing on the ladder at the moment you should be playing some sort of counter to Patron. It's why my Mech Mage loses to Patron most games; because I don't run a flamestrike or any other board clear. I'm fine with that though.
Not the point, beating aggro isn't hard. But it means you have to play the slowest ranking decks in terms of stars per hour. Priest decks can handle both hunter decks and zoo but, in addition to catastrophic win rates against patron and handlock, you'll enjoy your 20 minutes wins.
What governs the meta is the stars/hour rate, not the win/loss. Hence all the aggro decks with not-so-great winrates but that get you up the ladder the fastest anyway.
But you can't use that hero power every turn. People do need to realize that they can't make a hero power that you can't use EVERY turn. Anything that requires minion interaction is automatically out, because if you have no minions you can't push the button. Sure, healing on turn 2 could be a dead play, but you can DO it.
Bad luck? Essentially what you're saying is no one should play fast decks because it means you have to rank slower... If you don't like playing slow games that's okay, but no one has to conform to the way you like to play.
You can't use the priest power every turn either, just saying.
Control warrior > Patron
Fatigue mage > Patron
Handlock > Patron
Ramp druid > Patron
only very cheap decks suffer with this patron meta. Deal with it f**cking zoo and huntard HAHA.
do you realise grim patron deck is also very cheap? and even so, they can beat the decks you have mentioned as well. mage and handlock will provide a higher winning percentage imho,
every deck can tech against facehunter and other all-in aggro strategies with some neutral taunt and lifegain minions, but only a few classes have answeres against 2-3 patrons. alsom they can OTK you for 20+dmg.
Face Hunter is fine.
In LiquidHearth's Power Ranks Face Hunter is rank 11 this season, below 10 other decks such as zoo, Combo Druid, Freeze Mage, Midrange Paladin, Control Warrior, etc.
If you believe it is a powerful/overpowered deck you should play it yourself. Face Hunter cannot be considered "cheap" when Blizzard does not express any intention to nerf it, and playing Face Hunter is not against the rules of the game.
And double brawl wrecks hunter how?
Seeing less face hunters now, but more face paladins