Imagine you’re playing an aggressive or semi-aggressive deck (well basically any deck). My example deck here will be Zoo Warlock. You queue into the 10th Shaman deck in the last 0,5h. You draw Flame Imp, Knife Juggler and Dragonblight Cultist. Easy curve, a super good start, enough to win against a lot of decks.
The game starts. You play your cards, building a strong board, pushing some face damage. Your opponent does... nothing really, an Invocation of Frost, yeah, enough to clear one of your million Imps; a Corrupt Elementalist to clear two things, but you have seven of them...
And that is where the ‚fun’ begins. They do the first swing - Mogu Fleshshaper + Mutate. You pray to God they don’t roll a Taunt or something like Walking Fountain, but even a single 7/7 as early as turns 3/4 can seal the game.
The fun continues as they drop Dragon’s Pack. Yeah fuck you and your board you were building for the last few turns, I have my two 5/6 Taunts for (5) without a condition really. Even though the Shaman was doing nothing for the first turns, they absolutely swing the game in their favor as you have to trade your entire board into the giant wolves.
Not much after you got completely destroyed by the wolves, they drop Galakrond, a fully upgraded one. Two 8/8s with Rush destroy what was once your full board, the 5/2 Claw clears another thing or hits your face, and you have basically nothing to work with left. And if you happen to have something, their Shudderwock makes sure you don’t.
I know that this all depends on them drawing the cards, but this is even more frustrating, making the deck even more highrolly. Though they seem to have the exact cards all the time.
This was just an example of playing a more aggressive deck, but control or midrange also doesn’t have enough tools to deal with those swings...
And yet Blizzard nerfs Sludge Slurper and the least problematic swing card that is Mogu Fleshshaper. Seriously?
Imagine you’re playing an aggressive or semi-aggressive deck (well basically any deck). My example deck here will be Zoo Warlock. You queue into the 10th Shaman deck in the last 0,5h. You draw Flame Imp, Knife Juggler and Dragonblight Cultist. Easy curve, a super good start, enough to win against a lot of decks.
Drawing your perfect curve shouldn't equate to winning. The game needs comeback mechanics. Curvestone fanatics can always play Arena.
Imagine you’re playing an aggressive or semi-aggressive deck (well basically any deck). My example deck here will be Zoo Warlock. You queue into the 10th Shaman deck in the last 0,5h. You draw Flame Imp, Knife Juggler and Dragonblight Cultist. Easy curve, a super good start, enough to win against a lot of decks.
Drawing your perfect curve shouldn't equate to winning. The game needs comeback mechanics. Curvestone fanatics can always play Arena.
I don’t mean that drawing the perfect curve should win you the game. I mean that a single card played after doing hardly anything shouldn’t swing the game SO much.
I think you are right but... “And yet Blizzard nerfs Sludge Slurper and the least problematic swing card that is Mogu Fleshshaper. Seriously?”
I totally disagree Mogu Fleshshaper is not problematic. Having an 8/8 with taunt on turn 4-5 after being able to trade into your 3/3 is game winning. Shaman usually concede if they don’t get something good from mogu, since they rely on a lot of situation to swing the game in their favour.
Imagine you’re playing an aggressive or semi-aggressive deck (well basically any deck). My example deck here will be Zoo Warlock. You queue into the 10th Shaman deck in the last 0,5h. You draw Flame Imp, Knife Juggler and Dragonblight Cultist. Easy curve, a super good start, enough to win against a lot of decks.
Drawing your perfect curve shouldn't equate to winning. The game needs comeback mechanics. Curvestone fanatics can always play Arena.
I don’t mean that drawing the perfect curve should win you the game. I mean that a single card played after doing hardly anything shouldn’t swing the game SO much.
Seems like they nerfed the card you are moaning about.
I agree. The nerfs slowed shaman down by nerfing three cards they have in the deck. And three cards is a lot for a single deck to have nerfed. But slowing them down doesn't really hurt too much if the whole reason they were so strong is that they could swing so effectively with so little resources.
Yes, I can now be at a much better board parity going into turn 10 or so. They were a little slower so I've damaged them more, they've damaged me less, and the board state may be in my favor. But if I haven't won at that point, NONE of that would have mattered. Shudderwock or Galakrond are both comeback cards that BOTH resolve the board AND establish one for themselves. And Kronx can resolve or establish the board as well, or present some extra burst and healing. And of course, Kronx can also be used to tutor instead. It's a funny world when tutoring the best card in your deck is inferior to using the other battlecry. The devastations just that swingy.
And Dragon's Pack is far too much stats than should be allowed for 5 mana. I get it that it's a great defensive tool. But it's far too offensive as well. It represents TEN attack on the board. And it feels so bad to clear, cuz you're using either multiple trades or valuable cards to combat a single card they used. But you just can't afford to leave it up. Honestly, I've done well or won against them by saving all my clears and resources for the big swing turns, but sometimes, that second Dragon's pack or Electra/Vargoth into Dragon's pack puts the nail into the coffin for me.
Of course, my whole example is a midrange/control deck matchup against Galakrond Shaman. Combo decks like Holy Wrath Pally can do the job. Nothing but stall, clear, and heal. Or aggro. But it has to be SO fast. Look at face hunter. Even zoolock is too slow. Dragon's pack. 5 mana 10/12, taunted, over two bodies. Needs to go.
You have your good matchups and you have your bad matchups
I have a hard time understanding how, in a thread with multiple long explanations of a problem, someone can just respond with such a benign and stupid response.
Go to hsreplay. The deck literally only two two bad matchups. Just face hunter (hyper aggro) and holy wrath pally (nothing but clear and stall before winning).
OBVIOUSLY every deck has good and bad matchups. And I'm pretty sure it's also obvious by now that the issue is just how little bad matchups the deck has, and how absolute some of the good matchups are.
Imagine you’re playing an aggressive or semi-aggressive deck (well basically any deck). My example deck here will be Zoo Warlock. You queue into the 10th Shaman deck in the last 0,5h. You draw Flame Imp, Knife Juggler and Dragonblight Cultist. Easy curve, a super good start, enough to win against a lot of decks.
The game starts. You play your cards, building a strong board, pushing some face damage. Your opponent does... nothing really, an Invocation of Frost, yeah, enough to clear one of your million Imps; a Corrupt Elementalist to clear two things, but you have seven of them...
And that is where the ‚fun’ begins. They do the first swing - Mogu Fleshshaper + Mutate. You pray to God they don’t roll a Taunt or something like Walking Fountain, but even a single 7/7 as early as turns 3/4 can seal the game.
The fun continues as they drop Dragon’s Pack. Yeah fuck you and your board you were building for the last few turns, I have my two 5/6 Taunts for (5) without a condition really. Even though the Shaman was doing nothing for the first turns, they absolutely swing the game in their favor as you have to trade your entire board into the giant wolves.
Not much after you got completely destroyed by the wolves, they drop Galakrond, a fully upgraded one. Two 8/8s with Rush destroy what was once your full board, the 5/2 Claw clears another thing or hits your face, and you have basically nothing to work with left. And if you happen to have something, their Shudderwock makes sure you don’t.
I know that this all depends on them drawing the cards, but this is even more frustrating, making the deck even more highrolly. Though they seem to have the exact cards all the time.
This was just an example of playing a more aggressive deck, but control or midrange also doesn’t have enough tools to deal with those swings...
And yet Blizzard nerfs Sludge Slurper and the least problematic swing card that is Mogu Fleshshaper. Seriously?
Drawing your perfect curve shouldn't equate to winning. The game needs comeback mechanics. Curvestone fanatics can always play Arena.
I don’t mean that drawing the perfect curve should win you the game. I mean that a single card played after doing hardly anything shouldn’t swing the game SO much.
I think you are right but... “And yet Blizzard nerfs Sludge Slurper and the least problematic swing card that is Mogu Fleshshaper. Seriously?”
I totally disagree Mogu Fleshshaper is not problematic. Having an 8/8 with taunt on turn 4-5 after being able to trade into your 3/3 is game winning. Shaman usually concede if they don’t get something good from mogu, since they rely on a lot of situation to swing the game in their favour.
Also
Seems like they nerfed the card you are moaning about.
I agree. The nerfs slowed shaman down by nerfing three cards they have in the deck. And three cards is a lot for a single deck to have nerfed. But slowing them down doesn't really hurt too much if the whole reason they were so strong is that they could swing so effectively with so little resources.
Yes, I can now be at a much better board parity going into turn 10 or so. They were a little slower so I've damaged them more, they've damaged me less, and the board state may be in my favor. But if I haven't won at that point, NONE of that would have mattered. Shudderwock or Galakrond are both comeback cards that BOTH resolve the board AND establish one for themselves. And Kronx can resolve or establish the board as well, or present some extra burst and healing. And of course, Kronx can also be used to tutor instead. It's a funny world when tutoring the best card in your deck is inferior to using the other battlecry. The devastations just that swingy.
And Dragon's Pack is far too much stats than should be allowed for 5 mana. I get it that it's a great defensive tool. But it's far too offensive as well. It represents TEN attack on the board. And it feels so bad to clear, cuz you're using either multiple trades or valuable cards to combat a single card they used. But you just can't afford to leave it up. Honestly, I've done well or won against them by saving all my clears and resources for the big swing turns, but sometimes, that second Dragon's pack or Electra/Vargoth into Dragon's pack puts the nail into the coffin for me.
Of course, my whole example is a midrange/control deck matchup against Galakrond Shaman. Combo decks like Holy Wrath Pally can do the job. Nothing but stall, clear, and heal. Or aggro. But it has to be SO fast. Look at face hunter. Even zoolock is too slow. Dragon's pack. 5 mana 10/12, taunted, over two bodies. Needs to go.
You have your good matchups and
you have your bad matchups
I have a hard time understanding how, in a thread with multiple long explanations of a problem, someone can just respond with such a benign and stupid response.
Go to hsreplay. The deck literally only two two bad matchups. Just face hunter (hyper aggro) and holy wrath pally (nothing but clear and stall before winning).
OBVIOUSLY every deck has good and bad matchups. And I'm pretty sure it's also obvious by now that the issue is just how little bad matchups the deck has, and how absolute some of the good matchups are.
Nerfs will hopefully change that.
These anti-shaman posts every couple hours are more cancerous than the deck itself... JFC.
Let the Witch Hunt End already!