I just finished a game recently vs a control warrior, I was testing some kind of quest rez priest (quite a bad list tho), where we both go until the Elysiana stage, the game was close but still i had a serious chance to win, and then he just dropped an other Elysiana generated by his first one, which meant insta concede for me.
I've never seen this before nor heard of it, have you ? And don't you think, given the Elysiana thing is quite problematic in itself, getting a second one through the first should never happened?
Let me see if understand this, Elysiana shouldn't generate other Elysianas because... You conceded a game where that happened?
I've seen a lot of bad reasoning expressed here on this forum to request changes to cards, and this is as weird as it gets.
Elysiana is a neutral card, that means it is a card that can be discovered, it fits the criteria to be in the pool of discoveries.
The fact that in one game, you played against someone who happened to be lucky and pull the loop off and you conceded, is not a reason to make an arbitrary change to the card...
It is kind of annoying that people are so emotional they don't even bother to think through what they say.
Your opponent got lucky, great for him. Unless you want to request to remove all luck from the game, there is no reason why you think this particular luck outcome should be removed from the game and leave all other millions of lucky outcomes should remain in the game.
Consistency.
Welcome to the millennial snowflake generation, where people get so butthurt about anything, including art changes, to the point where they’re willing to start a war.
Wow, some of us should really calm down and take a good breath.
Welcome to the millennial snowflake generation, where people get so butthurt about anything, including art changes, to the point where they’re willing to start a war.
I'm not feeling butthurt, don't worry i've moved on the second he dropped it. And i don't want to start a war neither. I just wanted to discuss on a clunky situation i've encountered. You just feel so stupid to me saying sentences like this. Actually it just seems that you are the one offended ironically.
Let me see if understand this, Elysiana shouldn't generate other Elysianas because... You conceded a game where that happened?
Yes, that was my first impression that's why I wanted to discuss about it to clarify it. And no, not because I've conceded MY game but because it can just happen to many others players and I feel it pretty unfair first, but that's true that the odds are ridiculous I agree.
This post is a great example of something that belongs in the salt thread and not a post on it's own.
You are always posting those kind of post aren't you ?
try having a win condition next time.
Well, technically I had one into the shape of overwhelming opponent with massive buffed minion, Elysiana was a tech for Control Warrior only.
Really fun to play an hour game and get randomed so badly...
That's why i've feel it unfair too first, it's a coin toss that win you the game.
Just bad rng. Barely ever happens and bad luck is just also part of the game. Just move on to the next. No need to change rules because of bad rng.
Sure, I agreed entirely about the fact is was really anecdotical among the sample of the games played.
Not sure why everyone thinking this as salty thread lol. I think that could be possible option. Thinking about Zephrys the Great, it's true that the card cannot generate itself since it's not in Classic or basic set, but there is just no reason it cannot generate bouncing effect such as Shadowstep. Game wise, they just intend to make that so the game can go smoothly, not real reason that actually affects the game mechanic. Same thing happen with Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron, it cannot cast another Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron. Then why should Archivist Elysiana generate herself?
I think it would be a reasonable change all around for discover cards, but there aren't a whole lot of situations where it's really that impactful to warrant changing the mechanics. I think back to quest warrior chaining Stonehill Defenders. Mage juicing up Mana Wyrm with multiple Primordial Glyphs. In my control Shaman deck I'm sometimes able to return multiple Haunting Visions the following turn with Krag'wa, the Frog. There was a Shadow Visions loop Priest deck back in the day, though that's a slightly different situation since it's coming from your deck.
I'm not really in favor of writing an irregular rule for one card, and I'm just not sure a broader change to discover would make the game any better or more intuitive.
Welcome to the millennial snowflake generation, where people get so butthurt about anything, including art changes, to the point where they’re willing to start a war.
Actually, the art changes are a problem done by those snowflakes. I personally don't like that they changed the art for the most part, since I liked the art of most and the changes were dumb. Secret Keeper however, I actually like the new art better, I think it looks cooler, even though there was no reason for it to require a change.
I mean, it is their game, they can change the art as they see please, but I think they should have offered refunds. They should offer refunds whenever they change any aspect of a card. If you bought a car, and suddenly the manufacturer decided to go and change the paint without asking you, you would be well within your rights to ask for a refund.
Yes, that was my first impression that's why I wanted to discuss about it to clarify it. And no, not because I've conceded MY game but because it can just happen to many others players and I feel it pretty unfair first, but that's true that the odds are ridiculous I agree.
Of course it can happen to other players, as I said, since Elysiana is a neutral card, it fits the criteria to enter the pool of cards to discover. It is just as unfair as any other discover card randomly giving the player the exact card that will win them the game. Elysiana can also give you Elekk and Banker and you also win.
Either the game having the option to randomly grant you a free, lucky win is a problem or it isn't.
By the way, I do think it is a problem, but that is the game Blizzard decided to make the game. They decided to include a lot of random elements which can decide games, and we either accept that or we don't. If we play, it means we accept it. I accept it, to a certain extent. I'm not going to complain about how I randomly lose games to lucky opponents because I accept that this is how the game works, even if I would do things differently if I were in charge of the game.
Very well put.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hon. BSc. Medical Physics University of Toronto Class of 2017
It happened to me twice, too. I played a lot of games with and against elysiana though, still I felt super shitty when it happened, so I understand the op. But I also get why people say it is part of the game, sometimes you just lose to shit luck, that is part of hearthstone...
Not sure why everyone thinking this as salty thread lol. I think that could be possible option. Thinking about Zephrys the Great, it's true that the card cannot generate itself since it's not in Classic or basic set, but there is just no reason it cannot generate bouncing effect such as Shadowstep. Game wise, they just intend to make that so the game can go smoothly, not real reason that actually affects the game mechanic. Same thing happen with Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron, it cannot cast another Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron. Then why should Archivist Elysiana generate herself?
That's exactly what i thought, this infinite loop thing seems really strange to me, but however I can spot a difference, in the fact that Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron infinite loop would happen in the same turn thus creating a huge swing, while 3 Elysiana (as she offer two copy of a card she discovered) had some space between them, maybe that's what they were thinking.
Yes, it happened to me in one of the first few games right after launch of RoS. Never experienced it ever again.
Well that was my first time experiencing it since RoS, agreed it's far from being a common situation.
Of course it can happen to other players, as I said, since Elysiana is a neutral card, it fits the criteria to enter the pool of cards to discover. It is just as unfair as any other discover card randomly giving the player the exact card that will win them the game. Elysiana can also give you Elekk and Banker and you also win.
Either the game having the option to randomly grant you a free, lucky win is a problem or it isn't.
By the way, I do think it is a problem, but that is the game Blizzard decided to make the game. They decided to include a lot of random elements which can decide games, and we either accept that or we don't. If we play, it means we accept it. I accept it, to a certain extent. I'm not going to complain about how I randomly lose games to lucky opponents because I accept that this is how the game works, even if I would do things differently if I were in charge of the game.
Well, you made a serious point to me.
I guess my problem is not really the second or third Elysiana, but Elysiana in itself, basically RNG effects that have a huge impact on the game you're playing. Even though I still like a bit of RNG effect (well, sometimes it's just funny), when a single random effect just crush a player's gameplan he worked to all along the game, it feels not good.
But hey, I have played a lot of games where those RNG effects were in my favor, feeling like I stole the win so in the end RNG kind of find a "balance". But still, from the view of one game, it's unfair, for me or my opponent.
Anyway, you're right, that's the game Blizzard designed and we are bound to accept it, and actually I accept it, i'm having a lot of fun this expansion. I wasn't saying we needed to change the game because of an aspect I don't particularly like.
Hi everyone,
I just finished a game recently vs a control warrior, I was testing some kind of quest rez priest (quite a bad list tho), where we both go until the Elysiana stage, the game was close but still i had a serious chance to win, and then he just dropped an other Elysiana generated by his first one, which meant insta concede for me.
I've never seen this before nor heard of it, have you ? And don't you think, given the Elysiana thing is quite problematic in itself, getting a second one through the first should never happened?
I'd like to have your thoughts.
Thanks and have a good day
sorry you had bad luck but no
Just bad rng. Barely ever happens and bad luck is just also part of the game. Just move on to the next. No need to change rules because of bad rng.
What you meant to write was Elysiana should never have existed.
try having a win condition next time.
This post is a great example of something that belongs in the salt thread and not a post on it's own.
played hundred of games with control warrior, never generated elysiana from elysiana
your opponent was very lucky
I actually generated an extra Elysiana with control Shudder. I all just RNG, the actual chance of this happening is really low though.
Welcome to the millennial snowflake generation, where people get so butthurt about anything, including art changes, to the point where they’re willing to start a war.
Has happen against me twice. Really fun to play an hour game and get randomed so badly...
Wow, some of us should really calm down and take a good breath.
I'm not feeling butthurt, don't worry i've moved on the second he dropped it. And i don't want to start a war neither. I just wanted to discuss on a clunky situation i've encountered. You just feel so stupid to me saying sentences like this. Actually it just seems that you are the one offended ironically.
Yes, that was my first impression that's why I wanted to discuss about it to clarify it. And no, not because I've conceded MY game but because it can just happen to many others players and I feel it pretty unfair first, but that's true that the odds are ridiculous I agree.
You are always posting those kind of post aren't you ?
Well, technically I had one into the shape of overwhelming opponent with massive buffed minion, Elysiana was a tech for Control Warrior only.
That's why i've feel it unfair too first, it's a coin toss that win you the game.
Sure, I agreed entirely about the fact is was really anecdotical among the sample of the games played.
Not sure why everyone thinking this as salty thread lol. I think that could be possible option.
Thinking about Zephrys the Great, it's true that the card cannot generate itself since it's not in Classic or basic set, but there is just no reason it cannot generate bouncing effect such as Shadowstep. Game wise, they just intend to make that so the game can go smoothly, not real reason that actually affects the game mechanic.
Same thing happen with Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron, it cannot cast another Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron. Then why should Archivist Elysiana generate herself?
I think it would be a reasonable change all around for discover cards, but there aren't a whole lot of situations where it's really that impactful to warrant changing the mechanics. I think back to quest warrior chaining Stonehill Defenders. Mage juicing up Mana Wyrm with multiple Primordial Glyphs. In my control Shaman deck I'm sometimes able to return multiple Haunting Visions the following turn with Krag'wa, the Frog. There was a Shadow Visions loop Priest deck back in the day, though that's a slightly different situation since it's coming from your deck.
I'm not really in favor of writing an irregular rule for one card, and I'm just not sure a broader change to discover would make the game any better or more intuitive.
Is being a douche on the internet really that appealing?
Fun > Meta
Yes, it happened to me in one of the first few games right after launch of RoS. Never experienced it ever again.
Very well put.
Hon. BSc. Medical Physics
University of Toronto
Class of 2017
It happened to me twice, too. I played a lot of games with and against elysiana though, still I felt super shitty when it happened, so I understand the op. But I also get why people say it is part of the game, sometimes you just lose to shit luck, that is part of hearthstone...
That's exactly what i thought, this infinite loop thing seems really strange to me, but however I can spot a difference, in the fact that Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron infinite loop would happen in the same turn thus creating a huge swing, while 3 Elysiana (as she offer two copy of a card she discovered) had some space between them, maybe that's what they were thinking.
Well that was my first time experiencing it since RoS, agreed it's far from being a common situation.
Well, you made a serious point to me.
I guess my problem is not really the second or third Elysiana, but Elysiana in itself, basically RNG effects that have a huge impact on the game you're playing. Even though I still like a bit of RNG effect (well, sometimes it's just funny), when a single random effect just crush a player's gameplan he worked to all along the game, it feels not good.
But hey, I have played a lot of games where those RNG effects were in my favor, feeling like I stole the win so in the end RNG kind of find a "balance". But still, from the view of one game, it's unfair, for me or my opponent.
Anyway, you're right, that's the game Blizzard designed and we are bound to accept it, and actually I accept it, i'm having a lot of fun this expansion. I wasn't saying we needed to change the game because of an aspect I don't particularly like.