You know it's gonna be a bad topic when OP states: "I am 100 % against a relevant archetype"
Not really... There are good decks, that can have no losses if OP pilots them well... It is not impossible. You most consider that most likely, what op is stating is not coming ferm a very Big data set. I could make a 100% thread too, because I had 100% winrate against Big Priest from rank 15 to 5 last month, but I know, that it is not really relevant, because my 100% winrate means 15/15, which is not a lot...
Btw what is bomb druid? :))
I am an idiot. I misunderstood what OP wrote. Guess that is another reason I should stop posting early in the morning.
It's old news that Control Shaman can bend over the bomb warrior, which is why it enjoys the popularity it does.
However, you will lose 99/100 to the Jepetto Hunter, and as more people play ultra control, you'll see a rise in various combo decks that enjoy a crushing win rate against the slow control archetype.
And then you'll see aggro rise to combat the combo.
And then you'll see control rise to combat the aggro.
And then . . . . get the point?
That's why metas don't stabilize unless bad nerfing decisions render the amount of viable decks too small to keep up this circular model, and then you get what we got last month, where nothing changed because there were a very select few decks that had a chance against each other. The meta that's solved is the meta that's dead.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
It's old news that Control Shaman can bend over the bomb warrior, which is why it enjoys the popularity it does.
However, you will lose 99/100 to the Jepetto Hunter, and as more people play ultra control, you'll see a rise in various combo decks that enjoy a crushing win rate against the slow control archetype.
And then you'll see aggro rise to combat the combo.
And then you'll see control rise to combat the aggro.
And then . . . . get the point?
That's why metas don't stabilize unless bad nerfing decisions render the amount of viable decks too small to keep up this circular model, and then you get what we got last month, where nothing changed because there were a very select few decks that had a chance against each other. The meta that's solved is the meta that's dead.
I completely agree with you but heckle bot counters jeppeto pretty damn hard... The year of the raven was the best year for combo decks because there was no tech card for it but in this expansion we got 2, so i really doubt combo gets out of hand but for now I have a pretty solid winrate with control shaman. The trick to my deck that took it over the top against bomb warrior and agro decks was the two Applebaums and omega mind which is insane with hagathas scheme. It is basically a reno that clears everything and since you have to wait until turn 10 to play it you usually draw it. I know you probably think I should be dead by then against any agro deck but that is what witches brew , zilliax and the applebaums are for. I dont have a a fixed win condition I just survive until the other player runs out of stuff.
The meta for me is the same meta since I’ve played closed beta. The mmr matches you against the same decks everyone else is playing. I opened 347 packs on release day and have the entire RoS set plus every card in the game.. I can q up any deck on this website and it’s still the same. I don’t play the game to win anymore, I collect golden cards and do the dailies. Bomb warrior is auto pilot gold generator at rank 17. I q up my solid gold bomb warrior deck and play with my legend card back and just farm gold. The mmr matches me mirror more than 50% of the time. I just mulligan and play what I get like I have for 5 years. People looking for this game to change should move on,it’s not going to. Complaining about the meta now is the same stale bag of chips it was in week one of closed beta. Rank to me is meaningless. Aside from grinding the only card back 99% of players will never get, I got that using buzzard and hound hunter years ago. Bomb warrior is classic curvestone at its best. You don’t really even need to think when you play it. Considering every deck I play against is an exact one for one copy off this website it’s pretty much the same as it was when the game released. I couldn’t imagine having to try and get a card back anymore. People should stop whining and just accept the game as it is.
Yesterday i had a match as a control/fatigue Shaman VS Thief rogue that lasted a good 45 minutes. Grand Archivist was played by both players, twice. I personally enjoy it, but to each its own.
What is this slow meta you speak of? Token Druid, Secret Paladin, Murloc Shaman, Tempo Rogue, and Tempo mage are all over the place. I like control too but control shaman is just so damn boring to play...
Token druid need only 1 more broken card to rule the meta.
Is pretty nice now, that spell summoning x2 1/2 lifesteal for only 2 manas is extremely good, give board presence and advantage vs other agressive decks.
according to stats it's already rulling the meta.
if you are playing warrior how do you beat token druid? the only way I can think of is if they don't run the 8 mana card that refills twice or they over commit to AOE. don't see how control warrior/warlock can hope to defeat token druid.
Token druid need only 1 more broken card to rule the meta.
Is pretty nice now, that spell summoning x2 1/2 lifesteal for only 2 manas is extremely good, give board presence and advantage vs other agressive decks.
according to stats it's already rulling the meta.
if you are playing warrior how do you beat token druid? the only way I can think of is if they don't run the 8 mana card that refills twice or they over commit to AOE. don't see how control warrior/warlock can hope to defeat token druid.
I dunno, I keep getting stomped by control warriors getting lucky with their card generation. If they get to play their hero card the game is pretty much over.
Token druid need only 1 more broken card to rule the meta.
Is pretty nice now, that spell summoning x2 1/2 lifesteal for only 2 manas is extremely good, give board presence and advantage vs other agressive decks.
according to stats it's already rulling the meta.
if you are playing warrior how do you beat token druid? the only way I can think of is if they don't run the 8 mana card that refills twice or they over commit to AOE. don't see how control warrior/warlock can hope to defeat token druid.
I have never once lost to token druid with either dragon or bomb warrior in over 20 matchups. Warpath is second only to Psychic Scream in "I WIN" button status against Soul of the Forest.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Token druid need only 1 more broken card to rule the meta.
Is pretty nice now, that spell summoning x2 1/2 lifesteal for only 2 manas is extremely good, give board presence and advantage vs other agressive decks.
Frustrating class to play against. 4x +1/+1 to all minions in a token generating class... turn 1 2x 1/2 lifesteal minions, turn 2, 4x 1/2 lifesteal, turn 3, +1/+1 to your board, turn 5, +1/+1 to your board, turn 6 +2/+2 game over.
On the other hand, Priest really got the blunt end of the stick this expansion. We never get board buffs. Single target only. Zero twin spells and a shitty single target scheme. Dumpster. Our healing capabilities are also reduced. I get to rank 5 with 5 stars then lose 5 in a row to token druid, mech hunter, bomb warrior or aggro mage. Fun times!
/rant
Priest didn't really deserve anything that good, considering they have received insane cards from almost all past expansions.
Only reason priest was playable because of Psychic Scream
I feel ya MezariOz, Lazul's Scheme is such a joke lmao even the warrior one is better, no idea why it's not AoE still wouldn't be that amazing, we would have a decent at best board clear with Mossy Horror or at very least the debuff stay forever on single target.
Token druid need only 1 more broken card to rule the meta.
Is pretty nice now, that spell summoning x2 1/2 lifesteal for only 2 manas is extremely good, give board presence and advantage vs other agressive decks.
according to stats it's already rulling the meta.
if you are playing warrior how do you beat token druid? the only way I can think of is if they don't run the 8 mana card that refills twice or they over commit to AOE. don't see how control warrior/warlock can hope to defeat token druid.
I have never once lost to token druid with either dragon or bomb warrior in over 20 matchups. Warpath is second only to Psychic Scream in "I WIN" button status against Soul of the Forest.
EDIT: And yes, I'm aware Scream rotated.
You aoe consist of 2 war paths, 2 brawls 1 boomaster boom if you have the bomb package and mad genious in play.
vs 2 crystal songs 4 forest aids, 2 whispering woods 2 soul of the forest, with many more generators also archmage+soul of the forest requires 2 aoes to deal with. I didn't even talked about the regular tokens of druid with the acorn guy and the 1/2 life steals or the value of stallaris.
seems like a lot to exhaust before token druid is depleted from board floods and all druid needs is one board to stick while having savage roar in hand which in theory seems hard but in practice druid should win also by saving warpath for soul of the forest means you have a dead card until they play it and you risk getting savage roared..
Anyway all that said I think the matchup can go both sides but I would say the token druid is favored.
And two dynamos and . . . much stickier minions. I'm just telling you I'm 22 and 0 personally.
Also, while I am the first to admit that statistics two days into a rotation are questionable at best, they are also the only evidence we have on the subject beyond anecdote.
The vast majority of druid decks on ladder are similar to the ones you describe. The vast majority of warrior decks are control variants like I describe (in fact, I haven't seen anything else yet).
According to HSReplay, when opponent class = druid, quite a few warrior decks are maintaining well over 70% win rates.
According to HSReplay, when opponent class = warrior, the highest druid win rate is 60.6%, but that deck only has 90 total games logged. There are a few druid decks between 50 and 60%, but the difference in both win rate and games logged (therefore sample size) are significant.
In other words, I'm sure I will eventually drop a few games to druid, but I seriously doubt we will get to a point where the advantage shifts from warrior to druid.
For the record, yes, I noticed that a token druid deck has the highest overall win rate, but that specific deck drops 15% in win rate against just warriors.
Also for the record, warriors are getting absolutely worked by mech hunter.
(all stats collected are from "last 3 days" and "legend to 5 rank")
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Token druid need only 1 more broken card to rule the meta.
Is pretty nice now, that spell summoning x2 1/2 lifesteal for only 2 manas is extremely good, give board presence and advantage vs other agressive decks.
according to stats it's already rulling the meta.
if you are playing warrior how do you beat token druid? the only way I can think of is if they don't run the 8 mana card that refills twice or they over commit to AOE. don't see how control warrior/warlock can hope to defeat token druid.
I have never once lost to token druid with either dragon or bomb warrior in over 20 matchups. Warpath is second only to Psychic Scream in "I WIN" button status against Soul of the Forest.
EDIT: And yes, I'm aware Scream rotated.
Maybe it's slightly favored, but faaaar from your 100%.
Best match against bomb warrior was when I played 4x The Forest's Aid back to back from turn 8 to 11 and watched my opponent how he was desperately trying to deal with the board. After the 3rd Forests's Aid he started to kill Treants with Omega Assault and I knew this guy is toast :D
AND I LOVE IT. I am a control player and a slow meta is the best. I am playing a control shaman right now and I am 100% against any agro deck from zoo too token druid undefeated in like 30 games against them and 50% against bomb druid which I actually dont encounter as much. Thoughts on the new slow meta? btw I am in rank 2 player been in legend rank multiple times played since January 2016
Nobody cares dude, u want attention? Ur rank is shit anyway, stop it. Meta is super slow and trash right now, only for kids without job or responsability in their lives.
no you are the one that needs to stop. bashung someone else for sharing their expirience and happiness seems REALLY immature. we already have enough toxicity as is, we dont need you to add to that pile
Token druid need only 1 more broken card to rule the meta.
Is pretty nice now, that spell summoning x2 1/2 lifesteal for only 2 manas is extremely good, give board presence and advantage vs other agressive decks.
according to stats it's already rulling the meta.
if you are playing warrior how do you beat token druid? the only way I can think of is if they don't run the 8 mana card that refills twice or they over commit to AOE. don't see how control warrior/warlock can hope to defeat token druid.
I have never once lost to token druid with either dragon or bomb warrior in over 20 matchups. Warpath is second only to Psychic Scream in "I WIN" button status against Soul of the Forest.
EDIT: And yes, I'm aware Scream rotated.
Maybe it's slightly favored, but faaaar from your 100%.
Best match against bomb warrior was when I played 4x The Forest's Aid back to back from turn 8 to 11 and watched my opponent how he was desperately trying to deal with the board. After the 3rd Forests's Aid he started to kill Treants with Omega Assault and I knew this guy is toast :D
Ok, when I read your original post it says druid is favored. When I read it on the quote, it was "maybe (warrior) slightly favored".
I don't know which I'm responding to, but all the stats we have so far (and yes, I know it's only been two days, but that's all the evidence that exists) clearly show warrior with a significant edge.
Yes, I'm sure I'll drop some games sooner or later, but I haven't yet. I'm having this discussion in two different threads, so forgive me for not hunting up the stats again, but HSreplay has a decent enough sample size. I always use "legend to 5 rank" and "last 3 days" for the search.
And yes, I know there is one Token Druid deck sitting atop the overall win rates, but we're talking about one specific matchup. Warrior is getting worked by Mech Hunter and the mirror match is all over the place, so the win rates are wonky overall.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I am an idiot. I misunderstood what OP wrote. Guess that is another reason I should stop posting early in the morning.
It's old news that Control Shaman can bend over the bomb warrior, which is why it enjoys the popularity it does.
However, you will lose 99/100 to the Jepetto Hunter, and as more people play ultra control, you'll see a rise in various combo decks that enjoy a crushing win rate against the slow control archetype.
And then you'll see aggro rise to combat the combo.
And then you'll see control rise to combat the aggro.
And then . . . . get the point?
That's why metas don't stabilize unless bad nerfing decisions render the amount of viable decks too small to keep up this circular model, and then you get what we got last month, where nothing changed because there were a very select few decks that had a chance against each other. The meta that's solved is the meta that's dead.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I completely agree with you but heckle bot counters jeppeto pretty damn hard... The year of the raven was the best year for combo decks because there was no tech card for it but in this expansion we got 2, so i really doubt combo gets out of hand but for now I have a pretty solid winrate with control shaman. The trick to my deck that took it over the top against bomb warrior and agro decks was the two Applebaums and omega mind which is insane with hagathas scheme. It is basically a reno that clears everything and since you have to wait until turn 10 to play it you usually draw it. I know you probably think I should be dead by then against any agro deck but that is what witches brew , zilliax and the applebaums are for. I dont have a a fixed win condition I just survive until the other player runs out of stuff.
lol git gud
I hate zoo
Yesterday i had a match as a control/fatigue Shaman VS Thief rogue that lasted a good 45 minutes. Grand Archivist was played by both players, twice. I personally enjoy it, but to each its own.
Release the Kraken!
What is this slow meta you speak of? Token Druid, Secret Paladin, Murloc Shaman, Tempo Rogue, and Tempo mage are all over the place. I like control too but control shaman is just so damn boring to play...
according to stats it's already rulling the meta.
if you are playing warrior how do you beat token druid? the only way I can think of is if they don't run the 8 mana card that refills twice or they over commit to AOE. don't see how control warrior/warlock can hope to defeat token druid.
I dunno, I keep getting stomped by control warriors getting lucky with their card generation. If they get to play their hero card the game is pretty much over.
I have never once lost to token druid with either dragon or bomb warrior in over 20 matchups. Warpath is second only to Psychic Scream in "I WIN" button status against Soul of the Forest.
EDIT: And yes, I'm aware Scream rotated.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Only reason priest was playable because of Psychic Scream
I feel ya MezariOz, Lazul's Scheme is such a joke lmao even the warrior one is better, no idea why it's not AoE still wouldn't be that amazing, we would have a decent at best board clear with Mossy Horror or at very least the debuff stay forever on single target.
You aoe consist of 2 war paths, 2 brawls 1 boomaster boom if you have the bomb package and mad genious in play.
vs 2 crystal songs 4 forest aids, 2 whispering woods 2 soul of the forest, with many more generators also archmage+soul of the forest requires 2 aoes to deal with. I didn't even talked about the regular tokens of druid with the acorn guy and the 1/2 life steals or the value of stallaris.
seems like a lot to exhaust before token druid is depleted from board floods and all druid needs is one board to stick while having savage roar in hand which in theory seems hard but in practice druid should win also by saving warpath for soul of the forest means you have a dead card until they play it and you risk getting savage roared..
Anyway all that said I think the matchup can go both sides but I would say the token druid is favored.
And two dynamos and . . . much stickier minions. I'm just telling you I'm 22 and 0 personally.
Also, while I am the first to admit that statistics two days into a rotation are questionable at best, they are also the only evidence we have on the subject beyond anecdote.
The vast majority of druid decks on ladder are similar to the ones you describe. The vast majority of warrior decks are control variants like I describe (in fact, I haven't seen anything else yet).
According to HSReplay, when opponent class = druid, quite a few warrior decks are maintaining well over 70% win rates.
According to HSReplay, when opponent class = warrior, the highest druid win rate is 60.6%, but that deck only has 90 total games logged. There are a few druid decks between 50 and 60%, but the difference in both win rate and games logged (therefore sample size) are significant.
In other words, I'm sure I will eventually drop a few games to druid, but I seriously doubt we will get to a point where the advantage shifts from warrior to druid.
For the record, yes, I noticed that a token druid deck has the highest overall win rate, but that specific deck drops 15% in win rate against just warriors.
Also for the record, warriors are getting absolutely worked by mech hunter.
(all stats collected are from "last 3 days" and "legend to 5 rank")
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Maybe it's slightly favored, but faaaar from your 100%.
Best match against bomb warrior was when I played 4x The Forest's Aid back to back from turn 8 to 11 and watched my opponent how he was desperately trying to deal with the board. After the 3rd Forests's Aid he started to kill Treants with Omega Assault and I knew this guy is toast :D
Yeah I like it, I prefer slower games
no you are the one that needs to stop. bashung someone else for sharing their expirience and happiness seems REALLY immature. we already have enough toxicity as is, we dont need you to add to that pile
https://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1226671-infinite-jades-without-jade-idol
Ok, when I read your original post it says druid is favored. When I read it on the quote, it was "maybe (warrior) slightly favored".
I don't know which I'm responding to, but all the stats we have so far (and yes, I know it's only been two days, but that's all the evidence that exists) clearly show warrior with a significant edge.
Yes, I'm sure I'll drop some games sooner or later, but I haven't yet. I'm having this discussion in two different threads, so forgive me for not hunting up the stats again, but HSreplay has a decent enough sample size. I always use "legend to 5 rank" and "last 3 days" for the search.
And yes, I know there is one Token Druid deck sitting atop the overall win rates, but we're talking about one specific matchup. Warrior is getting worked by Mech Hunter and the mirror match is all over the place, so the win rates are wonky overall.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I am enjoying tempo rogue with decent succes at the moment. So meta is not too fast nor too slow for me. Good fun!