its just really fun to see the opponent playing UI when I have only 4 mana. I now that I could develop a strategy to counter that but I dont really want to, I just enjoy this feeling, its soooo awesome to see that ramp is the core identity of druid and its working nicely. I'm really happy with them. gg guys, show us the skillz.
You can play around the Spreading Plague, the same way you play around the Flamestrike. You can play around Jades, with the new tech card, everybody is just lazy to include, I guess.
Problem with druid was, that it lacked "usable" healing, card draw and direct face spell damage. So they printed all this into one card.
UI would be OK if there was no card draw, or at least only draw one card. Still pretty good, but not an extreme.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"All I caught was ghâsh: that is "fire". Then something came into the chamber- I felt it through the door, and the orcs themselves were afraid and fell silent." FotR
We've learned through my thread linked below that people, in general, do not like to lose. So, whatever they lose to, they will cry and bitch and moan about it.
Yes, some of the HS interactions are a bit ridiculous. Yes, some decks are generally not fun to play against. Yes, there are some obvious flaws in HS's card design.
BUT - that doesn't mean every single damn card/deck needs a nerf, which is what I am seeing on these forums. It's ridiculous. Nerf Warrior, Nerf Druid, Nerf Priest, Nerf Warlock, Nerf Mage... WTF people? What cards/decks DO you want to play with, exactly?
Nothing needs a nerf. Just because your deck can't beat a certain archetype, does not mean the archetype is overpowered.
We need at least resources to build a competitive deck but blizz doens't care about that. All expansions this year and last year was fail. We need to stop playing and make their feel how us feel about. Guys, don't play more, simple as that.
We can cross that bridge the day that Blizzard prints a 1 mana draw 5 cards, deal 5 damage, 5 armor card
that isnt what he is saying. he is saying that if you are seeing a lot of one deck that counters yours, try something else and dont whine that this deck is OP.
The case with Jade Druid is different. Jade Druid has all the tools needed (minus a large board clear like twisting nether) to win unfavoured matchups. I was at Dreamhack Montreal this weekend and 2 players brought lineups that specifically countered Druid (Secret Mage, Murloc Paladin, Pirate Warrior and Jade Druid). These two players strategy was not to ban druid and ban paladin or priest in most cases. Both made it to top 8. One faced Muzzy in the Semi Finals and he got 3-0ed vs Jade Druid even though his lineup was tailored to beat it.
Jade Druid did need a nerf and I dont think they got hit hard enough. Personally I don't think UI is the problem. I think the fact that the synergies in the deck are so good that it makes it so hard to beat. If you think about it, Rogue and Shaman with Jades arent OP. you dont see decks made around Jades in Shaman and Rogue, but more as a sideline synergy, especially in shaman running 2 claws, 2 lightning and Aya. Blizzard made the mistake of letting druid build a deck around Jades with Jade Idol. If they didnt have Jade Idol or it had a different text, Jade Druid wont be an issue.
I think they needed to nerf Idol if anything and the problem would have been solved. I think they didnt do that because it would put the deck 6 feet under. Idol offers too much value to them in slow games and even decks running Skulking Giest cant beat them.
The nerf to plague will make a difference but it wont solve the issue (IMO). But with the nerfs that came in, they nerfed the counters to druid (pirate warrior and aggro druid). So now I think Druid will be better than ever. Like the deck will be -2 plague, -2 innervate and there is 4 more spots that they can use to add more minions and more answers.
The best nerf to the deck would have been Jade Idol reading : Choose one. Summon a Jade Golem or Shuffle 3 Jade Golems into your deck.
This would have been fine making the deck above average but not broken. They wont have infinite value against control and it will slow down the jade train. Leaving plague as is with this nerf would be fine because the meta IMO would shift towards more control and pirate warrior, aggro druid and murloc pally would fall out of favor.
These are my opinions and what I think would solve the Jade Druid problem. Some of you may agree and some may disagree. Opinions on why or why not you agree with me would be much appreciated.
It's refreshing to see the op miss the point entirely - almost like he's part of team 5. lol.
Ultimate Infestation is not "a little bit strong". Giving a class that struggles to deal direct damage and struggles to draw extra cards 5 of each is already OP no matter the mana cost. Getting 5 armour and a 5/5 minion for free on top of that is ridiculous. UI is so broken it fundamentally changes how the Druid class is played. It exposes how good Innervate is - in fact it breaks it. It makes Nourish read "Gain 2 mana crystals unless you have 9 or more, in which case draw 3 cards". Everything else that happens in Druid is now as straightforward as playing Face Hunter - there are no difficult decisions at any point in the game.
When you couple that with the dramatically OP Jade engine, obviously you're going to end up with the best deck, especially when Blizzard, in their wisdom, choose to nerf the 3 aggro decks that keep it in check. I am sure that nerfing Fiery War Axe and Murloc Warleader will have a much greater impact on aggro decks in general than nerfing Innervate will in Jade Druid.
Yes, Pirate Warrior is a ridiculous deck. It is also, however, very beatable outside its crazy starts. Just like all good aggro decks should be. The point of aggro is to win the games you high roll a great hand - the goal of other decks is to somehow lose fewer of those games without sacrificing win rate against the rest of the field.
Ultimately though this is all irrelevant. These cards were not nerfed because they were too powerful. They were nerfed because they were being overplayed, something Blizzard managed to not do to cards like Kill Command or Fireball which see just as much play in their classes.
If Blizzard wanted to nerf the savagely broken mechanics in the game right now, UI, Anduin, Thrall, Jade and Doppelgangster would have been on the chopping block alongside Win Axe and Innervate. Warleader itself isn't the problem - Hearthstone's fundamental mechanic of keeping minions alive artificially when their health is lowered is the problem with the buff, but whatever. But since Jade and Evolve are headline set mechanics, we get to keep them and watch the decks that counter them get nerfed instead.
This is not sour grapes. When 95% of a tournament field runs BOTH Jade Druid and Anduin (with the other 5% running Jade Druid), and over 70% of that same field runs TWO Jade decks, you can be certain that Murloc Warleader and Fiery War Axe are not the problem with the meta.
its just really fun to see the opponent playing UI when I have only 4 mana. I now that I could develop a strategy to counter that but I dont really want to, I just enjoy this feeling, its soooo awesome to see that ramp is the core identity of druid and its working nicely. I'm really happy with them. gg guys, show us the skillz.
You can play around the Spreading Plague, the same way you play around the Flamestrike. You can play around Jades, with the new tech card, everybody is just lazy to include, I guess.
Problem with druid was, that it lacked "usable" healing, card draw and direct face spell damage. So they printed all this into one card.
UI would be OK if there was no card draw, or at least only draw one card. Still pretty good, but not an extreme.
"All I caught was ghâsh: that is "fire". Then something came into the chamber- I felt it through the door, and the orcs themselves were afraid and fell silent." FotR
We've learned through my thread linked below that people, in general, do not like to lose. So, whatever they lose to, they will cry and bitch and moan about it.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/202736-what-do-you-like-to-lose-to
Yes, some of the HS interactions are a bit ridiculous. Yes, some decks are generally not fun to play against. Yes, there are some obvious flaws in HS's card design.
BUT - that doesn't mean every single damn card/deck needs a nerf, which is what I am seeing on these forums. It's ridiculous. Nerf Warrior, Nerf Druid, Nerf Priest, Nerf Warlock, Nerf Mage... WTF people? What cards/decks DO you want to play with, exactly?
We need at least resources to build a competitive deck but blizz doens't care about that. All expansions this year and last year was fail. We need to stop playing and make their feel how us feel about. Guys, don't play more, simple as that.
It's refreshing to see the op miss the point entirely - almost like he's part of team 5. lol.
Ultimate Infestation is not "a little bit strong". Giving a class that struggles to deal direct damage and struggles to draw extra cards 5 of each is already OP no matter the mana cost. Getting 5 armour and a 5/5 minion for free on top of that is ridiculous. UI is so broken it fundamentally changes how the Druid class is played. It exposes how good Innervate is - in fact it breaks it. It makes Nourish read "Gain 2 mana crystals unless you have 9 or more, in which case draw 3 cards". Everything else that happens in Druid is now as straightforward as playing Face Hunter - there are no difficult decisions at any point in the game.
When you couple that with the dramatically OP Jade engine, obviously you're going to end up with the best deck, especially when Blizzard, in their wisdom, choose to nerf the 3 aggro decks that keep it in check. I am sure that nerfing Fiery War Axe and Murloc Warleader will have a much greater impact on aggro decks in general than nerfing Innervate will in Jade Druid.
Yes, Pirate Warrior is a ridiculous deck. It is also, however, very beatable outside its crazy starts. Just like all good aggro decks should be. The point of aggro is to win the games you high roll a great hand - the goal of other decks is to somehow lose fewer of those games without sacrificing win rate against the rest of the field.
Ultimately though this is all irrelevant. These cards were not nerfed because they were too powerful. They were nerfed because they were being overplayed, something Blizzard managed to not do to cards like Kill Command or Fireball which see just as much play in their classes.
If Blizzard wanted to nerf the savagely broken mechanics in the game right now, UI, Anduin, Thrall, Jade and Doppelgangster would have been on the chopping block alongside Win Axe and Innervate. Warleader itself isn't the problem - Hearthstone's fundamental mechanic of keeping minions alive artificially when their health is lowered is the problem with the buff, but whatever. But since Jade and Evolve are headline set mechanics, we get to keep them and watch the decks that counter them get nerfed instead.
This is not sour grapes. When 95% of a tournament field runs BOTH Jade Druid and Anduin (with the other 5% running Jade Druid), and over 70% of that same field runs TWO Jade decks, you can be certain that Murloc Warleader and Fiery War Axe are not the problem with the meta.