so recently iv seen a lot of druid outrage, but i feel like the anger is misplaced entirely
the notorious cards that are the issue i believe you can put into three camps
draw, ramp and value
draw: druids have always been a master of draws, wild growth, wrath, nourish and now ultimate infestation not only are all these cards filling 8 spots in a typical druid deck, but their draw sum is at 20 cards, a crazy amount. with so much draw you need to have a lot of strong combos or value in order for you to get the kill on your opponent before start to suffer too much from fatigue.
ramp: the amount of ramp cards currently have not been changed, but thank to cards such as ultimate infestation you can now afford to play a lot more of them and in the example of nourish, be able to use the ramp option more frequently. the ramp cards are as following, innervate wild growth jade blossom and nourish - ramp cards by themselves are dead cards, cards with no impact and therefor needs a good amount of value in order to be justified to put into a deck, especially if you play all of them with all these current forms of ramp options you can ramp for a total of 8 mana, if you re fast enough.
so already we can see that two of our three options have a major downside of possibly being a dead card doing nothing or in the case of the draw cards being possible negative cards which will harm you if played to many times.
value: to nobodies supperise the value is represented by the jade mechanic, an mechanic which because of jade idol never really is a bad card to play and allows the player the opportunity to stretch out the game to infinity without running out of options to play, on top of that, the draw mechanic from before which previously was a negative is no longer that, because you can fill your deck up with jade idols without an issue or negative consequence, because a 1 mana anything above 1 is good value. only really the first jade idol is really bad value second not the best but the third and up there after is insane value.
I believe jade idol should have its mana cost increase setup to 3 mana and the jade spirit card removed from the game in order to make jade idol slow but strong value, without this change i simply just don't believe that the punishment of running a value card like this is exitising and therefor making it the most insane card in the game.
tldr ramp and draw in druid is fine because there re negative consequences, jade idol is not fine because there are no negative consequences and therefor needs a nerf to its tempo in order to balance the card out
Jade in general is not the issue.. the extra jade ramp is - aka Jade Idols, even with Skulking Geist in deck they can get 1-3 ramps off or more if you're really unlucky. Without Jade Idol, Jade Druids are actually quite easy to beat, even with Ultimate Infestation.
WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO REMOVE JADE SPIRIT?, Rogue and shamman use that card......these people.......
because it is too good tempo compared to the value it gives, maybe just increase the mana cost to 5 or 6 but i rather see it removed because there is enough jade cards as is.
Jade Blossom is a big part of it, but IMO the big problem is the lack of balance between the three factions generally and between Druid and the other two Jade classes specifically. Grimy Goons is terrible, Kabal is balanced, and Jade is (generally) OP. In the Jade faction, Rogue is terrible, Shaman is balanced, and Druid is (generally) OP. If these were balanced better, I think Druid wouldn't be as big of an issue as it is now.
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ramp: the amount of ramp cards currently have not been changed, but thank to cards such as ultimate infestation you can now afford to play a lot more of them and in the example of nourish, be able to use the ramp option more frequently. the ramp cards are as following, innervate wild growth jade blossom and nourish - ramp cards by themselves are dead cards, cards with no impact and therefor needs a good amount of value in order to be justified to put into a deck, especially if you play all of them with all these current forms of ramp options you can ramp for a total of 8 mana, if you re fast enough.
Ramp is the issue. And you have severely underestimated its power. Other classes can do value and draw (look at Warlock for example and/or Shaman for draw/value and jade/value). Geist has shown that it's not an issue of the neverending jades from Druid is value.
Ramp is what makes early infestation or turn 1 fledgling possible. These are powerful cards, but it's the ability to get them out before your opponent has equally powerful cards is the whole issue.
If jade was the issue, people would be complaining about shaman and rogue jades. Same thing goes for auctioneer. Every week before UI was printed, people would beg for auctioneer to be rotated, now you don't hear a peep about it. Face it, druid is the problem. Not these cards.
I think card text is the real culprit. I can't wait until blizzard releases an entire expansion with nothing but vanilla cards. Let's get back to basics.
I'm just gonna c/p part of my post from anither jade druid topic, as I feel it could be a good change: "I think it can be changed to something like "Choose One - Summon a 1/1 Jade Golem; or Shuffle 3 copies of this card into your deck, increase their cost by (1).", so it would stop being so oppresive while still allowing you to summon a lot of Jades over the course of the game."
Ramp is what makes early infestation or turn 1 fledgling possible. These are powerful cards, but it's the ability to get them out before your opponent has equally powerful cards is the whole issue.
ramp without heavy draw is not very good because you are paying twice the amount of cards for one cards value and fledgling is yet another example of a bad card design by blizzard... it is possible to counter though with slower decks with more removal, but that would be a whole different type of meta.
It's definitely not Jade Idol. I just lost to a jade druid without them even playing Jade Idol with my control priest deck. Prior to this expansion, control priest could kill off their entire deck except for the jade idol spam. This time, even with Geist it doesn't matter.
Also as I'm typing this, I just had a druid play turn 4 Ultimate Infestation. We ramp'd on turn 3, turn 4 played Innervatex2, coin, Ultimate Infestation. Like holy fucking hell man
Edit: He just played his second. He has 8 cards left in his deck. I have 16.
Anyone noticed that jade is the only gadgetzan clan that's still viable 3 expansions later?
I think that jade mechanic is just straight unfair. But the main problem is ramping. Innervate, 2x wild growth and 2x jade blossom (that also gives you ~/~ jade) is just insane. They are beatable for sure but it's pathetic how some cheap mechanic that got released 3 expansions ago can MOST of the time destroy any expensive decks that came with new expansions. Shouldn't Hearthstone be always 'fresh' as Team 5 said? I have a feeling that they are sleeping again.
It's definitely not Jade Idol. I just lost to a jade druid without them even playing Jade Idol with my control priest deck. Prior to this expansion, control priest could kill off their entire deck except for the jade idol spam. This time, even with Geist it doesn't matter.
Also as I'm typing this, I just had a druid play turn 4 Ultimate Infestation. We ramp'd on turn 3, turn 4 played Innervatex2, coin, Ultimate Infestation. Like holy fucking hell man
Edit: He just played his second. He has 8 cards left in his deck. I have 16.
Focus on the game at hand instead of complaining DURING the match and you might stand a better chance at winning .
I have hated jade golems since the first day they appeared. They allow you to keep an aggressive mana curve but still have access to big minions. In my opinion, if you want to put 10/10+ stats on the board it should have to be a fairly costed minion in your deck, or the result of a combination of cards, not just some lame battle cry effect on a vanilla -1/1 stated minion. Jade idol is also a huge problem as it is clearly overpowered at 1 mana and cheats it's way around fatigue. Blizzard needs to not only nerf jade idol but the entire jade golem mechanic as a whole. The cards are boring to play both with and against and are oppressive to the majority of new cards added to the game as players will just constantly spam these idiotic minions. My suggestion is make a jade golem a 1/1 random stealth or taunt or other basic effect and nothing more. It's time for a change already.
so recently iv seen a lot of druid outrage, but i feel like the anger is misplaced entirely
the notorious cards that are the issue i believe you can put into three camps
draw, ramp and value
draw: druids have always been a master of draws, wild growth, wrath, nourish and now ultimate infestation not only are all these cards filling 8 spots in a typical druid deck, but their draw sum is at 20 cards, a crazy amount. with so much draw you need to have a lot of strong combos or value in order for you to get the kill on your opponent before start to suffer too much from fatigue.
ramp: the amount of ramp cards currently have not been changed, but thank to cards such as ultimate infestation you can now afford to play a lot more of them and in the example of nourish, be able to use the ramp option more frequently. the ramp cards are as following, innervate wild growth jade blossom and nourish - ramp cards by themselves are dead cards, cards with no impact and therefor needs a good amount of value in order to be justified to put into a deck, especially if you play all of them with all these current forms of ramp options you can ramp for a total of 8 mana, if you re fast enough.
so already we can see that two of our three options have a major downside of possibly being a dead card doing nothing or in the case of the draw cards being possible negative cards which will harm you if played to many times.
value: to nobodies supperise the value is represented by the jade mechanic, an mechanic which because of jade idol never really is a bad card to play and allows the player the opportunity to stretch out the game to infinity without running out of options to play, on top of that, the draw mechanic from before which previously was a negative is no longer that, because you can fill your deck up with jade idols without an issue or negative consequence, because a 1 mana anything above 1 is good value. only really the first jade idol is really bad value second not the best but the third and up there after is insane value.
I believe jade idol should have its mana cost increase setup to 3 mana and the jade spirit card removed from the game in order to make jade idol slow but strong value, without this change i simply just don't believe that the punishment of running a value card like this is exitising and therefor making it the most insane card in the game.
tldr ramp and draw in druid is fine because there re negative consequences, jade idol is not fine because there are no negative consequences and therefor needs a nerf to its tempo in order to balance the card out
WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO REMOVE JADE SPIRIT?, Rogue and shamman use that card......these people.......
KILL INERVATE!!!!!!!!!!
stop complaining, i play jade druid and i also play decks that counter it. its not that hard to beat him.
Jade Blossom is a big part of it, but IMO the big problem is the lack of balance between the three factions generally and between Druid and the other two Jade classes specifically. Grimy Goons is terrible, Kabal is balanced, and Jade is (generally) OP. In the Jade faction, Rogue is terrible, Shaman is balanced, and Druid is (generally) OP. If these were balanced better, I think Druid wouldn't be as big of an issue as it is now.
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If jade was the issue, people would be complaining about shaman and rogue jades. Same thing goes for auctioneer. Every week before UI was printed, people would beg for auctioneer to be rotated, now you don't hear a peep about it. Face it, druid is the problem. Not these cards.
Ramp, draw, jade mechanic are all the same.
I think card text is the real culprit. I can't wait until blizzard releases an entire expansion with nothing but vanilla cards. Let's get back to basics.
I'm just gonna c/p part of my post from anither jade druid topic, as I feel it could be a good change: "I think it can be changed to something like "Choose One - Summon a 1/1 Jade Golem; or Shuffle 3 copies of this card into your deck, increase their cost by (1).", so it would stop being so oppresive while still allowing you to summon a lot of Jades over the course of the game."
You can't stop the signal.
Jade Idol is the problem.. even Skulking Geist doesn't seem to solve it.
Anyone noticed that jade is the only gadgetzan clan that's still viable 3 expansions later?
I think that jade mechanic is just straight unfair. But the main problem is ramping. Innervate, 2x wild growth and 2x jade blossom (that also gives you ~/~ jade) is just insane. They are beatable for sure but it's pathetic how some cheap mechanic that got released 3 expansions ago can MOST of the time destroy any expensive decks that came with new expansions. Shouldn't Hearthstone be always 'fresh' as Team 5 said? I have a feeling that they are sleeping again.
Highlander doesn't work anymore? Kibler was having some success with handbuff Paladin these past few days.
Focus on the game at hand instead of complaining DURING the match and you might stand a better chance at winning .
I have hated jade golems since the first day they appeared. They allow you to keep an aggressive mana curve but still have access to big minions. In my opinion, if you want to put 10/10+ stats on the board it should have to be a fairly costed minion in your deck, or the result of a combination of cards, not just some lame battle cry effect on a vanilla -1/1 stated minion. Jade idol is also a huge problem as it is clearly overpowered at 1 mana and cheats it's way around fatigue. Blizzard needs to not only nerf jade idol but the entire jade golem mechanic as a whole. The cards are boring to play both with and against and are oppressive to the majority of new cards added to the game as players will just constantly spam these idiotic minions. My suggestion is make a jade golem a 1/1 random stealth or taunt or other basic effect and nothing more. It's time for a change already.
How about a cap on the size of the Jades? 7/7 sounds fair imo. 6/6 may be a little overkill but 7/7 should do it I think.
...There is just no way that happens...
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