As someone who has a complete golden collection from Classic to Blackrock, I have completely stopped spending money on this game as it has become nothing but a cash grab from Blizzard. Last expansion burned me pretty bad with all the worthless crap that was printed and this season is even worse. 22 legendarys from a small set is a fucking joke. On average, if you don't start with any dust, you are looking at 250 packs this expansion to get the set. That is FAR more than we have ever seen before (Even classic, which is a much larger set), and FAR more than most other card games.
The F2P model is killing this game
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SWCCG World Champ- Star Wars CCG, best card game ever
I also got disconnected twice before I could reveal my cards, which may mean nothing, but it still makes me feel like there is a possibility my pulls could have been manipulated outside the normal RNG.
Well until another CCG rocks the boat a bit more they can continue to charge the relatively high price for packs with no changes. It would be wonderful if they could at least increase gold rewards to be more in line with other CCGs but for now we just gotta suck it up or play other games.
I guess you could call me a dolphin in terms of spending over (£1000+ spent) I don't regret spending it since I milked many thousands of hours from this game, although I will say that other CCGs are starting to release more sets/cards that have more interesting mechanics. I feel like it's only a matter of time before HS falls behind in terms of how "fun" the decks are to play.
It must be even worse for F2P fellas, the gold rewards are really poor and if the meta is especially dull (mean streets has been awful) it makes it all the harder to build up a collection.
To everyone that said by getting 3 legendaries in 114 packs is normal because the pity timer kicks in at 40, this conclusion simply isn't backed by math. Worse case scenario is not the same as average. The worse case is that you will get a legendary after 40 packs, the best is that you will get one the very next pack. The math, thereby, works out that you will get a legendary, on average, every 20 or so packs. Furthermore, if the average is 40 packs, then that would mathematically suggest that the pity timer is at 80, or at least at a higher point than 40, due to the higher error rate inherent in smaller samples. Averages are just that, averages that take place over an extended period of time. Smaller sample rates can give skewed results, and it can be argued that the sample rate of 114 packs is too low, but the likelihood of getting one legendary every 40 packs if the pity timer is set to 40 is nearly the equivalent of randomly selecting a number from 1 to 40 and getting the same number three times in a row. I say 'nearly' because the pity timer comes into play for every occurrence above 40 as well. But, if the average is consistently above 20 and the pity timer is coming into play more often on average, then the algorithm controlling the frequency of legendary drops has been altered to result in the less-frequent appearance of legendaries. Bear in mind that the algorithmically-controlled frequency of legendary drops and the stage at which the pity timer kicks in are two separate aspects on the program, and the former can be altered without changing the later. Given the mathematical improbability of what I've seen, compounded by similar reports that suggest this isn't an uncommon phenomenon, I'm simply saying that evidence suggests that the algorithm controlling the frequency of legendary drops has changed, while the pity timer algorithm has remained the same. This is specifically what I'm objecting to, not to bad luck or the fact that I may or may not have been an idiot to participate in this system to begin with.
Yes, I knew what I was getting into, that paying for a game expansion by playing a lottery for functional game components is essentially a scam that I've accepted to this point even though it could probably be legally be argued that it violates lottery/gambling laws in my country. What I'm objecting to is evidence of a new mathematical basis for drawing legendaries at the same time when the amount of class legendaries is coincidentally doubled. Yes, I blame myself for getting involved, as I said earlier, since I otherwise refuse to participate in any game that is labelled as free to lay but then requires you to pay far above the cost of an average game to gain reasonable functionality. Let's face it, this is the whole business model behind the creation of virtual collectible card games and the reason they're created, not for the love is such games. But, like I said, I'm admitting to my choosing to be part of this and I realize that this is not probably the proper place to debate the legal and ethical implications of supposed free-to-play games. I was just upset by what I felt to be a change in the ground rules, and that is specifically what I'm objecting to.
For those that asked, I purchased 50 packs, and used gold and giveaways for the rest. For everyone that said 'hey, you knew what you were getting into', I think it was clear that I blame myself as well. But getting 1 class legandary, 1 quest, and 1 neutral legandary out of 114 packs means that I would potentially have to pay hundreds of dollars simply for a game expansion. Yes, this is what I signed up for in the past, but if the cost of this highly expensive system of expansion essentially doubles, or more, from one expansion to the next, then I feel I have a right to suggest it's unfair.
Also, bear in mind that, if the frequency of legendary drops has been lessened slightly and the pity timer kept the same, then this doesn't mean that someone can't still get a decent selection of legendaries out of opening a bunch of packs, it just becomes less likely. If the algorithm is tweaked to make the average more like 30 than 20, then the pity timer kicks in at the same point, and the only evidence of the change is a lesser amount of people reporting good results and more people reporting bad results vs. what we've been accustomed to in the past, which is what I appear to be seeing. Stating that a shift hasn't occurred because of occasional good luck is like saying that that climate change isn't real because it's cold out.
Actually, come to think of it, when you add up the dust that I got for free and add it to what I got from the packs, this evens out to almost exactly my previous pack opening results. Frankly, it would be very easy to tweak pack results to approximately compensate for free dust, and thereby be able to seem like heroes for providing the dust while retaining the same amount of revenue from the expansion as would have been likely without giving out the free dust. If that's what's going on, I don't think that's terribly admirable either, not to mention that there's nothing saying that quest cards had to be legendaries. Making them epics could have made the expansion similarly expensive compared to past expansion, rather than potentially twice as costly.
Not to mention that three expansions in one year and no adventures is going to be very costly, and certainly isn't necessary to replace the cards rotating out. I just get the feeling that, since the user base probably isn't going to expand too much more, and since the new-user experience isn't that great, maybe Blizzard feel like it's time to try gain more revenue per user since the may now have to depend on existing users and their addictive personalities (mine included) for continuing profits. Nobody ever said business was pretty, and Blizzard is a business, not fantasy card game friends, even if their representatives pretend to be that. Still, bumping up the number of legengaries, giving them out more sparingly, and requiring players to deal with a full expansion every few months, doesn't seem like an ideal approach, either for players or for Blizzard's success in the long run. Or who knows, maybe they just know what they can get away with. As I mentioned to start off with, I've never complained before, but this just seems a little out of control.
I've had my say. From here on, I'm a big boy, I'll either play or quit, depending, I suppose, on which has the stronger effect on me, my sense of having fun or my sense of being taken advantage of.
Pity timer is what, 40 packs? So you're hitting the average.
Thats not the average. Thats the worst outcome.
Exactly, I open roughly between 25-30 packs on day of each expansion, and about 1 f2p every 2 days, I got a total of 3 MSoG legends, which means I must have hit the worse case scenario every time that entire expansion, and this one is not looking any better, where as previously I would usually hit the 20-25 average.
I also got disconnected twice before I could reveal my cards, which may mean nothing, but it still makes me feel like there is a possibility my pulls could have been manipulated outside the normal RNG.
Anyone stupid enough to spent money in this casino game is a fool.
I think a lot of people failed to realise that Hearthstone is not simply a card game it is a form of gambling game with controlled odds that is being disguised as a card game.
Thanks to those that have been sympathetic. And congrats to those that have done better than I did. Granted, there are more important things in life, but having such bad luck, if it was just bad luck, makes this expansion prohibitively expensive if I want to come anywhere trying all the quests and experimenting with a lot of new hands. It does really beg the question of whether buying a product and getting something good or bad depending on a lottery system is really a good way to do things. Based on my experience, it is not.
Gambling is addictive, largely because of the dopamine generated. I suppose that's a factor here, and probably not an entirely unintentional one. Combine that with fairly obsessive personalities (as I said, like mine), and I suppose you get a lot of sales.
On the bright side, I actually have a lot of dust. But this is only because I went crazy with my purchases in the past an ended up dusting so many duplicates. If I spend dust that cost me a few hundred dollars to acquire in order to get the most out of this expansion, I'm still way overspending, whether the money came out of my pocket today or months ago.
As for the gambling thrill, after I went the first 40 packs without getting anything, I really didn't have any pleasure opening packs after that, since I wasn't even looking at the cards and just opening them fast to see if things were going to get any more reasonable. So much for the dopamine effect.
As someone who has a complete golden collection from Classic to Blackrock, I have completely stopped spending money on this game as it has become nothing but a cash grab from Blizzard. Last expansion burned me pretty bad with all the worthless crap that was printed and this season is even worse. 22 legendarys from a small set is a fucking joke. On average, if you don't start with any dust, you are looking at 250 packs this expansion to get the set. That is FAR more than we have ever seen before (Even classic, which is a much larger set), and FAR more than most other card games.
The F2P model is killing this game
SWCCG World Champ- Star Wars CCG, best card game ever
28 packs = 0 Legends
I also got disconnected twice before I could reveal my cards, which may mean nothing, but it still makes me feel like there is a possibility my pulls could have been manipulated outside the normal RNG.
"I'LL FIX YOU!!!"
Well until another CCG rocks the boat a bit more they can continue to charge the relatively high price for packs with no changes. It would be wonderful if they could at least increase gold rewards to be more in line with other CCGs but for now we just gotta suck it up or play other games.
I guess you could call me a dolphin in terms of spending over (£1000+ spent) I don't regret spending it since I milked many thousands of hours from this game, although I will say that other CCGs are starting to release more sets/cards that have more interesting mechanics. I feel like it's only a matter of time before HS falls behind in terms of how "fun" the decks are to play.
It must be even worse for F2P fellas, the gold rewards are really poor and if the meta is especially dull (mean streets has been awful) it makes it all the harder to build up a collection.
My luck is above average. With my pre-order along with the packs I got from my Gold (13 more) and the Tavern Brawl + free packs on launch, I got 71.
I was hoping for at least 3 Legendaries.
I ended up getting 5. (Swamp King, Pyros, Shaman and Mage quest, and Sherazin)
bought an 7 packs main street bundle and get 3 legends
got 100 packs from expa and only get 4 is bullshit, and nooooowwww..... 2 legends per class plus general ones
To everyone that said by getting 3 legendaries in 114 packs is normal because the pity timer kicks in at 40, this conclusion simply isn't backed by math. Worse case scenario is not the same as average. The worse case is that you will get a legendary after 40 packs, the best is that you will get one the very next pack. The math, thereby, works out that you will get a legendary, on average, every 20 or so packs. Furthermore, if the average is 40 packs, then that would mathematically suggest that the pity timer is at 80, or at least at a higher point than 40, due to the higher error rate inherent in smaller samples. Averages are just that, averages that take place over an extended period of time. Smaller sample rates can give skewed results, and it can be argued that the sample rate of 114 packs is too low, but the likelihood of getting one legendary every 40 packs if the pity timer is set to 40 is nearly the equivalent of randomly selecting a number from 1 to 40 and getting the same number three times in a row. I say 'nearly' because the pity timer comes into play for every occurrence above 40 as well. But, if the average is consistently above 20 and the pity timer is coming into play more often on average, then the algorithm controlling the frequency of legendary drops has been altered to result in the less-frequent appearance of legendaries. Bear in mind that the algorithmically-controlled frequency of legendary drops and the stage at which the pity timer kicks in are two separate aspects on the program, and the former can be altered without changing the later. Given the mathematical improbability of what I've seen, compounded by similar reports that suggest this isn't an uncommon phenomenon, I'm simply saying that evidence suggests that the algorithm controlling the frequency of legendary drops has changed, while the pity timer algorithm has remained the same. This is specifically what I'm objecting to, not to bad luck or the fact that I may or may not have been an idiot to participate in this system to begin with.
Yes, I knew what I was getting into, that paying for a game expansion by playing a lottery for functional game components is essentially a scam that I've accepted to this point even though it could probably be legally be argued that it violates lottery/gambling laws in my country. What I'm objecting to is evidence of a new mathematical basis for drawing legendaries at the same time when the amount of class legendaries is coincidentally doubled. Yes, I blame myself for getting involved, as I said earlier, since I otherwise refuse to participate in any game that is labelled as free to lay but then requires you to pay far above the cost of an average game to gain reasonable functionality. Let's face it, this is the whole business model behind the creation of virtual collectible card games and the reason they're created, not for the love is such games. But, like I said, I'm admitting to my choosing to be part of this and I realize that this is not probably the proper place to debate the legal and ethical implications of supposed free-to-play games. I was just upset by what I felt to be a change in the ground rules, and that is specifically what I'm objecting to.
For those that asked, I purchased 50 packs, and used gold and giveaways for the rest. For everyone that said 'hey, you knew what you were getting into', I think it was clear that I blame myself as well. But getting 1 class legandary, 1 quest, and 1 neutral legandary out of 114 packs means that I would potentially have to pay hundreds of dollars simply for a game expansion. Yes, this is what I signed up for in the past, but if the cost of this highly expensive system of expansion essentially doubles, or more, from one expansion to the next, then I feel I have a right to suggest it's unfair.
Also, bear in mind that, if the frequency of legendary drops has been lessened slightly and the pity timer kept the same, then this doesn't mean that someone can't still get a decent selection of legendaries out of opening a bunch of packs, it just becomes less likely. If the algorithm is tweaked to make the average more like 30 than 20, then the pity timer kicks in at the same point, and the only evidence of the change is a lesser amount of people reporting good results and more people reporting bad results vs. what we've been accustomed to in the past, which is what I appear to be seeing. Stating that a shift hasn't occurred because of occasional good luck is like saying that that climate change isn't real because it's cold out.
Actually, come to think of it, when you add up the dust that I got for free and add it to what I got from the packs, this evens out to almost exactly my previous pack opening results. Frankly, it would be very easy to tweak pack results to approximately compensate for free dust, and thereby be able to seem like heroes for providing the dust while retaining the same amount of revenue from the expansion as would have been likely without giving out the free dust. If that's what's going on, I don't think that's terribly admirable either, not to mention that there's nothing saying that quest cards had to be legendaries. Making them epics could have made the expansion similarly expensive compared to past expansion, rather than potentially twice as costly.
Not to mention that three expansions in one year and no adventures is going to be very costly, and certainly isn't necessary to replace the cards rotating out. I just get the feeling that, since the user base probably isn't going to expand too much more, and since the new-user experience isn't that great, maybe Blizzard feel like it's time to try gain more revenue per user since the may now have to depend on existing users and their addictive personalities (mine included) for continuing profits. Nobody ever said business was pretty, and Blizzard is a business, not fantasy card game friends, even if their representatives pretend to be that. Still, bumping up the number of legengaries, giving them out more sparingly, and requiring players to deal with a full expansion every few months, doesn't seem like an ideal approach, either for players or for Blizzard's success in the long run. Or who knows, maybe they just know what they can get away with. As I mentioned to start off with, I've never complained before, but this just seems a little out of control.
I've had my say. From here on, I'm a big boy, I'll either play or quit, depending, I suppose, on which has the stronger effect on me, my sense of having fun or my sense of being taken advantage of.
Exactly, I open roughly between 25-30 packs on day of each expansion, and about 1 f2p every 2 days, I got a total of 3 MSoG legends, which means I must have hit the worse case scenario every time that entire expansion, and this one is not looking any better, where as previously I would usually hit the 20-25 average.
"I'LL FIX YOU!!!"
They saw you comin bro, imo call customer support.
Anyone stupid enough to spent money in this casino game is a fool.
I think a lot of people failed to realise that Hearthstone is not simply a card game it is a form of gambling game with controlled odds that is being disguised as a card game.
Time to wake up.
5 packs (all free) - 1 Golden Legendary (Elise the Trailblazer)
8(1 golden)/114 here so probably it's about your luck. hope you the best man, should feel really bad 3/114
I opened 39 packs and got 0 legs, 0 golden epics, 9 epics, and not too much rares, blizzard, go fuck yourself.
29 packs, 3 legendaries, 8 epics, 1 golden epic - I'm not going to complain.
Yes the pity timer is 40 , but that's not the average. The average packs per legendary is 20
more anecdotal evidence but i had 3 legendaries 4 epics in 1st 20 packs. feel bad for the people who's shit RNG i balanced out :S
going to bed now, have another 20 to open in the morning, but even if i get no more i've done well.
Thanks to those that have been sympathetic. And congrats to those that have done better than I did. Granted, there are more important things in life, but having such bad luck, if it was just bad luck, makes this expansion prohibitively expensive if I want to come anywhere trying all the quests and experimenting with a lot of new hands. It does really beg the question of whether buying a product and getting something good or bad depending on a lottery system is really a good way to do things. Based on my experience, it is not.
Gambling is addictive, largely because of the dopamine generated. I suppose that's a factor here, and probably not an entirely unintentional one. Combine that with fairly obsessive personalities (as I said, like mine), and I suppose you get a lot of sales.
On the bright side, I actually have a lot of dust. But this is only because I went crazy with my purchases in the past an ended up dusting so many duplicates. If I spend dust that cost me a few hundred dollars to acquire in order to get the most out of this expansion, I'm still way overspending, whether the money came out of my pocket today or months ago.
As for the gambling thrill, after I went the first 40 packs without getting anything, I really didn't have any pleasure opening packs after that, since I wasn't even looking at the cards and just opening them fast to see if things were going to get any more reasonable. So much for the dopamine effect.
All these people lying (or something more benign) about their pack openings, like 1 legendary in 81+ packs, etc.
That's dumb
2 from 84 packs. Worst I've had, been playing since season 1, I'm hoping something is wrong rather than just being unlucky :)
55 packs, 1 legendary, 11 epic, excitment about Un'Goro lasted about 5 minutes (or however long it took me to open the packs).