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Hearthstone can induce some serious frustration in a player when they lose several games in a row. Then, full of anger and shame, that player comes to a third party forum to vent about their recent loss.
Inevitably, someone brings up a game like FIFA or CoD and how it requires so much skill to play while Hearthstone is built on randomness so it can't compete.
Sure the game randomly assigns you cards from a set of 30, but knowing when to play those cards and knowing what your opponent is playing requires an incredible amount of skill! Don't disparage the skill involved in card games just because you can't control the hand you're dealt.
Skill: the ability to do something that comes from training, experience, or practice
Mulliganing, board clears, when to go face over board control, these are skills and with experience a player is more familiar on how to go about doing these. Sure, some decks has less skills involved but to say this game involve no skill is an exaggeration and frankly, just isn't true. Unless your definition of "skill" is completely different from what the dictionary is telling you.
Regular NA Arena Leaderboard player.
Reached #1 in NA arena leaderboard in May 2018 with a 9.07 average!
-Legend is only a no skill grind if you're playing something like aggro shaman or zoolock
-You are only trash if you play a deck like mentioned above, grind it and still can't get legend
Fuck cubelock
PSN: RoStGy
As many have mentioned, the grind is a major element of achieving legend. Simply achieving legend is an indication that you and your deck (s) were above average at the rank 5+ level (note that this is not the same as being above the overall average) and that you spent however much time was necessary for your skill level to get from 5 to legend. Theoretically, given enough time, you could achieve legend with a less than 50% longterm win rate, during an extended upswing in variance.
A somewhat better measure of skill in ladder would be top 100, as that's where even the minute details make all of the difference. A great example of this is Hotform tearing apart Sjow's play of his #1 legend tempo mage deck the other day. There are often so many seemingly inconsequential things that can easily snowball in a match. However, you can even get top 100 being an above average player, given enough time and the right deck for the short term meta. Ultimately, win rate over large samples of arena with even distribution of class usage, would be a better indicator of Hearthstone skill than legend status, though there is something to be said for constructed deck knowledge. Good tournament formats and performance over the course of many tournaments would be a superior indicator than ladder, as well. Sure, any legend player might be able to beat Kolento in a best of 5 on a good RNG day, but their chances decrease dramatically in a best of 999.
The fact is, like any other card game, there is an ever-present RNG element that can't be denied. The worst player can beat the best player under the right circumstances. The same is true of Poker, Magic, you name it. Even all of the RNG cards in Hearthstone will have an average performance level over an extended period of time that will determine how good the card actually is. This really isn't any worse than the inherent RNG element of card draw. The skill becomes apparent when analyzed over large sample sizes. Take a game like Poker. Sure the best player often loses, but when you take a look at a graph of his/her performance, the upward climb in profitability is sharper and more consistent than inferior players. Hearthstone, and all card games, work in a similar fashion, where there are tons of good to great players, but the very best, when analyzed longterm, will produce superior results.
There's some degree of "RNG" even in sports and other video games. Some examples include emotions, physical and mental health, sleep, trajectories, fortunate/unfortunate timing outside of one's control, slight mechanical variations, etc. Being great or "pro" at card games is all about minimizing the impact of the RNG. It actually takes more than you'd think to be at the very highest level. Legend is simply not an indicator of the very highest level. The RNG just covers up for misplays enough to make you assume you've reached close to that upper limit. The fact is, there is no perfect player in Hearthstone, and until someone can perform perfectly 100% of the time, there is always room for improvement, just like any sport or other video game.
this discussion again -_-
why cant you people just accept that this is a casual money maker, not meant to be a super competitive high skill cap game. just let it go already :/
It takes 0 skill to get to Legend.
a fair amount of skill is required to reach legend, but not a lot... remember when unsophisticated bots were hitting legend? that's enough evidence to me that attaining legend skews more toward the grind than required skill
You m-m-m-m-make me happy.
lol everyone thinks the point of hearthstone is to "grind to legend" instead of enjoying a card game. Buncha babies, damn.
If you're not enjoying the ladder do like me go play arena and brawl
I think there's an easy test. Just pit yourself against a pro. I don't mean by playing against them, as RNG can influence who wins, but to watch a stream and predict their series of moves. Whenever the move you and the pro make differ, then at least 1 of you have to be making a suboptimal move. If all your moves agree after 30 games, then the game's skill cap is very low.
P.S. Don't give me that "2 moves are equally good" bullcrap, since in a game with RNG, this is almost never the case. One move is almost certainly going to give you a higher win rate than the other, even if it is only by 0.01%.
People who refuses to play aggro out of principle are even worse than people who play exclusively aggro.
One should seek to become a complete player and play all archetypes, including ones that he despises for whatever irrational reasons.
If a Legacy open was only one game played per match with no sideboard, only then could you compare hearthstone skill vs. MTG skill. There is a huge payoff to hearthstone RNG because it's trying to do things you couldn't do with a physical card game. The only reason MTG feels like its more skillful is because MTG allows you to respond to threats on your opponents turn, this doesn't make us more skillful. The skill comes from making the correct plays and planning how your opponent will respond, it seems to me that we do the same in hearthstone.
Arena and MTG draft are also the same fish, again each has its own pros and cons but at the end of the day its practically the same. If ya don't agree I truely feel ya need to play more of both.
So quit trying to make one better than the other and just enjoy what each has to offer. Hearthstone is a new born baby with TONS of potential to grow and change.
"When life gives ya lemons, put em in a sack and beat the crap outta life with em." -Ancient Klingon Proverb