So it is getting close to the end of the season, and I decided to take a look at my stats to figure out how I can improve for next season. One thing popped out as odd...
When I have the coin, my win rate is approximately 50.79%; however, when I do not have the coin, my win rate is 64.43%. That is a huge difference!
So, now I am curious when the right time to use the coin is. I typically go for the 2 drop, 2 drop, 3 drop setup to establish board presence early, but now I am wondering if I should be holding it for another time.
So, when do you use the coin? I know the general "Whenever it would give you a huge tempo swing", but I am not sure when that would be in most cases. What are your thoughts?
(Edit): Some people have asked in the thread. The data is primarily for Secret Paladin.
Wow, your win rate being so much better without the coin surprises me. I have not tracked it, but i feel like my win rate is alot better with the coin. The main reason i like being on the draw is because you get to mulligan 4 cards. That has always seemed like a big advantage plus you get the coin. When to play the coin really depends on what you are playing, and what your opponent is playing. I probably use it the most to get on board with a 2 drop on my first turn.
I generally like coin in demon handlock, cause you get more cards and you can play voidcaller or twilight drake on turn 3. Plus great counterspell bait.
Since I mainly play Rogue I find the coin to be a huge advantage as it enables any combo card, such as playing SI7 on turn 2 against aggro the tempo swing alone is match winning. Druids can also use this to their advantage against aggro as well through Keeper of the Grove.
To answer your question though choosing when to use the coin depends greatly on the deck type and class your playing against against control I find myself holding on to it till later turns to bring out a large threat or strong removal early. Whereas against aggro I'll use as soon as possible to try take the board.
I view the coin as pure combo enabler though as I spend most of my time playing Pirate Rogue on ladder :)
This makes sense. I haven't played rogue very much, but I have seen the coin synergy with combo. Mostly I have been playing Secret Paladin (I know, I know. I am try harding this month lol), and Mid-range druid.
An additional point, the pattern is the same against all classes except warlock. With warlock, I win more often when I have the coin.
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Wow, your win rate being so much better without the coin surprises me. I have not tracked it, but i feel like my win rate is alot better with the coin. The main reason i like being on the draw is because you get to mulligan 4 cards. That has always seemed like a big advantage plus you get the coin. When to play the coin really depends on what you are playing, and what your opponent is playing. I probably use it the most to get on board with a 2 drop on my first turn.
I felt much the same way. I liked having more options in my hand to mulligan, and when I coin out a 2 drop I have board presence, so it feels like a good thing, but the data tells me otherwise. Weird right? That is the reason I started up this thread, figure I am missing something.
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Ben Brode openly stated that players going first have a higher win ratio than those who go second. Do a little digging on this website and you should find the quote.
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Vision without action is a dream. Action without vision is a nightmare.
Depends on what class you're playing. You should be using the coin to curve out or accelerate your plays. Don't use the coin on something like turn 1 into a 2 drop if you don't have a follow up.
To be honest it depends on what class and deck you play. For example for rogues the coin is insane. On warriors not so much. Also aggro decks prefer going first. Midrange most of the time doesn't care about the coin unless they have a spiders into juggler play.
However there are exceptions. For example when you play secret paladin and you go second with the dream hand ( double secret keeper double secret into muster ).
How i use the coin depends on what class am going against. If it's a warlock/druid/hunter/paladin i aim to use it early to establish board control and pressure them early so i don't get outempoed. For most other classes i keep it for late game drops.
Yeah, I have had the dream hand before. This data is primarily secret paladin, but I have noticed similar data in past months using other decks (mostly Druid).
Against aggro decks I always coin out a 2 drop for defense. Perhaps against more control match ups I should hold onto the coin then?
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Ben Brode openly stated that players going first have a higher win ratio than those who go second. Do a little digging on this website and you should find the quote.
Yeah, I am aware of that quote, but I also don't think it should be quite that drastic of a difference (nearly 15% higher?). 5% or lower would be more acceptable, which leads me to think I am doing something wrong.
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If your playing Handlock or Renolock then I can see how the coin would be more beneficial to you than with other classes the ability to fill your hand and bring Emperor Thaurissan out quicker or more board control cards such as Imp Gang Boss or Implosion.
Personally getting hit with 4 Imps on turn 3 is just painful lol :)
Ah yes, the turn 4 warlock muster... haha.
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Freeze Mage = T5 Emperor Thaurissan or T6 Flamestrike. All in all, it comes down to your deck, curve, mulligans & draws. Those will kill you faster than going for or second. I HATE having to coin something out cause I got hosed on draws.
So it is getting close to the end of the season, and I decided to take a look at my stats to figure out how I can improve for next season. One thing popped out as odd...
When I have the coin, my win rate is approximately 50.79%; however, when I do not have the coin, my win rate is 64.43%. That is a huge difference!
So, now I am curious when the right time to use the coin is. I typically go for the 2 drop, 2 drop, 3 drop setup to establish board presence early, but now I am wondering if I should be holding it for another time.
So, when do you use the coin? I know the general "Whenever it would give you a huge tempo swing", but I am not sure when that would be in most cases. What are your thoughts?
All u basically said was "hey, i win more with coin ... tell me why?"
Others already said, it very much depends on class/deck/archetype so thats that generally.
So it is getting close to the end of the season, and I decided to take a look at my stats to figure out how I can improve for next season. One thing popped out as odd...
When I have the coin, my win rate is approximately 50.79%; however, when I do not have the coin, my win rate is 64.43%. That is a huge difference!
So, now I am curious when the right time to use the coin is. I typically go for the 2 drop, 2 drop, 3 drop setup to establish board presence early, but now I am wondering if I should be holding it for another time.
So, when do you use the coin? I know the general "Whenever it would give you a huge tempo swing", but I am not sure when that would be in most cases. What are your thoughts?
All u basically said was "hey, i win more with coin ... tell me why?"
Others already said, it very much depends on class/deck/archetype so thats that generally.
Actually, I said I win more when I DON'T have coin. As for the deck, I mentioned it in the thread, but the data is primarily for secret paladin.
So it is getting close to the end of the season, and I decided to take a look at my stats to figure out how I can improve for next season. One thing popped out as odd...
When I have the coin, my win rate is approximately 50.79%; however, when I do not have the coin, my win rate is 64.43%. That is a huge difference!
So, now I am curious when the right time to use the coin is. I typically go for the 2 drop, 2 drop, 3 drop setup to establish board presence early, but now I am wondering if I should be holding it for another time.
So, when do you use the coin? I know the general "Whenever it would give you a huge tempo swing", but I am not sure when that would be in most cases. What are your thoughts?
All u basically said was "hey, i win more with coin ... tell me why?"
Others already said, it very much depends on class/deck/archetype so thats that generally.
Actually, I said I win more when I DON'T have coin. As for the deck, I mentioned it in the thread, but the data is primarily for secret paladin.
True that! i was too sleepy when i wrote it, sorry :)
Either use it to fill out your curve - ie for instance if you have no turn 3 play, but have 2 turn 4 plays, play one turn 3. save for an early board clear/heal/big minion or bringing out a threat early agaisnt some control decks to apply pressure - In that order.
When i tracked my wins i had more than 10% higher winrate starting first, even as rogue.
Right, very similar to what I am seeing. I would just love to figure out why. Logically, having an extra card to mulligan means you are more likely to have appropriate drops and the coin can be used to get board presence early, but that doesn't appear to be the case. I think I will have to look more closely at what happens on each turn to figure that out. Good to know I'm not the only one seeing that! lol
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There is a lot of skill in using The Coin correctly. As a general rule you should use it to fix your curve. A simple example would be you having a 1 drop and two 3-s. You should use the coin to play your 3 drop on turn 2. When you have a 2 drop and a 3 drop you should try to guess what your opponent plays. If they are a face deck you should coin out your 2 drop on turn 1 most of the time especially if they played a 1 drop. If they are a slower deck you should generally save the coin for later.
Logically, having an extra card to mulligan means you are more likely to have appropriate drops and the coin can be used to get board presence early, but that doesn't appear to be the case. I think I will have to look more closely at what happens on each turn to figure that out. Good to know I'm not the only one seeing that! lol
The reason for this is that a player without the coin always has 1 more mana crystal for the first 10 turns. That is actually a huge advantage that Blizz managed to mostly balance out with the coin and +1 card, but still some first player advantage remains .
So it is getting close to the end of the season, and I decided to take a look at my stats to figure out how I can improve for next season. One thing popped out as odd...
When I have the coin, my win rate is approximately 50.79%; however, when I do not have the coin, my win rate is 64.43%. That is a huge difference!
So, now I am curious when the right time to use the coin is. I typically go for the 2 drop, 2 drop, 3 drop setup to establish board presence early, but now I am wondering if I should be holding it for another time.
So, when do you use the coin? I know the general "Whenever it would give you a huge tempo swing", but I am not sure when that would be in most cases. What are your thoughts?
(Edit): Some people have asked in the thread. The data is primarily for Secret Paladin.
www.twitch.tv/lycathal
The stream starts at 7:00pm PST every Thursday. Sunday and Tuesday!
Wow, your win rate being so much better without the coin surprises me. I have not tracked it, but i feel like my win rate is alot better with the coin. The main reason i like being on the draw is because you get to mulligan 4 cards. That has always seemed like a big advantage plus you get the coin. When to play the coin really depends on what you are playing, and what your opponent is playing. I probably use it the most to get on board with a 2 drop on my first turn.
What deck are you playing?
I generally like coin in demon handlock, cause you get more cards and you can play voidcaller or twilight drake on turn 3. Plus great counterspell bait.
www.twitch.tv/lycathal
The stream starts at 7:00pm PST every Thursday. Sunday and Tuesday!
www.twitch.tv/lycathal
The stream starts at 7:00pm PST every Thursday. Sunday and Tuesday!
Ben Brode openly stated that players going first have a higher win ratio than those who go second. Do a little digging on this website and you should find the quote.
Vision without action is a dream. Action without vision is a nightmare.
Depends on what class you're playing. You should be using the coin to curve out or accelerate your plays. Don't use the coin on something like turn 1 into a 2 drop if you don't have a follow up.
www.twitch.tv/lycathal
The stream starts at 7:00pm PST every Thursday. Sunday and Tuesday!
www.twitch.tv/lycathal
The stream starts at 7:00pm PST every Thursday. Sunday and Tuesday!
www.twitch.tv/lycathal
The stream starts at 7:00pm PST every Thursday. Sunday and Tuesday!
Freeze Mage = T5 Emperor Thaurissan or T6 Flamestrike. All in all, it comes down to your deck, curve, mulligans & draws. Those will kill you faster than going for or second. I HATE having to coin something out cause I got hosed on draws.
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CheckCounterspell. Blizzard should buff Counterspellto only trigger for spells that cost 2 or more.
Interesting,
Subjective I feel my winrate with coin is much higher due to 4 card mulligan and the tempo it provides sometimes.
I actually start tilting when I don't get the coin for many matches in a row.
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The stream starts at 7:00pm PST every Thursday. Sunday and Tuesday!
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When i tracked my wins i had more than 10% higher winrate starting first, even as rogue.
Either use it to fill out your curve - ie for instance if you have no turn 3 play, but have 2 turn 4 plays, play one turn 3. save for an early board clear/heal/big minion or bringing out a threat early agaisnt some control decks to apply pressure - In that order.
www.twitch.tv/lycathal
The stream starts at 7:00pm PST every Thursday. Sunday and Tuesday!
There is a lot of skill in using The Coin correctly. As a general rule you should use it to fix your curve. A simple example would be you having a 1 drop and two 3-s. You should use the coin to play your 3 drop on turn 2. When you have a 2 drop and a 3 drop you should try to guess what your opponent plays. If they are a face deck you should coin out your 2 drop on turn 1 most of the time especially if they played a 1 drop. If they are a slower deck you should generally save the coin for later.
The reason for this is that a player without the coin always has 1 more mana crystal for the first 10 turns. That is actually a huge advantage that Blizz managed to mostly balance out with the coin and +1 card, but still some first player advantage remains .