It is not broken, but it would probably be more balanced as a 4-mana card instead.
Why 4 mana,? That would change the card for the worse no reason. It's only useful against one archetype of decks and only works when you are behind. Even at 2 mana it'd be very strong but hardly an auto include since you have to be behind to use it and lose tempo. At 3 mana you at least get a chance to try play some of the cards you draw. Factor in over draw into fatigue and the card really just seams better than it is. 3 Mana is a healthy place for Divine Favor and it's been this way for ages.
It is not broken, but it would probably be more balanced as a 4-mana card instead.
Why 4 mana,? That would change the card for the worse no reason. It's only useful against one archetype of decks and only works when you are behind. Even at 2 mana it'd be very strong but hardly an auto include since you have to be behind to use it and lose tempo. At 3 mana you at least get a chance to try play some of the cards you draw. Factor in over draw into fatigue and the card really just seams better than it is. 3 Mana is a healthy place for Divine Favor and it's been this way for ages.
I somewhat agree with you. Divine Favor is only used and useful in agressive decks and sucks if used against agressive decks. But the thing is you don't have to be behind to use it and it gives you an insane boost, if used in the right time, in the right match-ups. I know fatigue is factor aswell, but a game with an agressive paladin deck rarely lasts until fatigue.
It is not broken, but it would probably be more balanced as a 4-mana card instead.
You can't justify a mana cost increase to "balance" a situational card that only draws cards. There are crazy times, sure, but there are times where you literally cannot use it because your opponent has no cards. It evens out to an Arcane Intellect a decent amount of the time. The card is fine.
Bump. This isn't a fucking whining thread, like some of you inbreds have assumed. It's a thread that I used to start discussion and gather opinions. I've succeeded in that, though some of your replies are garbage. Stop coming at me for making a thread that had the simple intention of sparking discussion.
Bump. This isn't a fucking whining thread, like some of you inbreds have assumed. It's a thread that I used to start discussion and gather opinions. I've succeeded in that, though some of your replies are garbage. Stop coming at me for making a thread that had the simple intention of sparking discussion.
I agree with you, Divine favor is a bit too strong and often draws so many cards that it wins against control very easily easily for the mana cost. However there is so much opposition to the idea of changing the card or weakening paladin it seams bleak that such a discussion will occur or be constructive. Maybe people prefer to be stuck in a time capsule where everything stays the same and we never look back. Perhaps people really like paladin or the idea of a control punishing card. Either way I seriously hope this card gets looked at.
no, the worst case scenario is pay 3, draw 0 cards. and not every midrange deck horts cards. this cards was fine the last... since release. battlerage was "op" in patron too, but not the card itself was broken, the synergies were, before that, nobody used this card, ever. divine favor is ONLY that good nowadays because paladin had nearly every expansion stick an op card up his ass. in classic, or even naxx, there was the shockadin, which you just had to whirlwind-effect of the board 1-2 times and you won, and the control with only LoH as card draw and slow as hell.
no, the worst case scenario is pay 3, draw 0 cards. and not every midrange deck horts cards. this cards was fine the last... since release. battlerage was "op" in patron too, but not the card itself was broken, the synergies were, before that, nobody used this card, ever. divine favor is ONLY that good nowadays because paladin had nearly every expansion stick an op card up his ass. in classic, or even naxx, there was the shockadin, which you just had to whirlwind-effect of the board 1-2 times and you won, and the control with only LoH as card draw and slow as hell.
DF is also amazing in aggro paly, but the deck is totally balanced overall, unlike secret paladin.
Divine Favor is very easily my most hated card in the history of card games, and the single card I most hate losing to. It effectively punishes you for NOT overextending and it helps ebola decks exist. Im not sure if its objectively completely broken, but if the decision were up to me I would create a banlist in HS just to ban this very card.
Fuck you, Divine Favor.
Really? More hated than Mysterious Challenger? Most hated card in history of card games? What planet have you been living on? Why are people so over dramatic about it? Divine Favor is situational. Most who play the card could tell you that it's often deadweight in your hand and you generally don't get that perfect situation. Often times you wind up getting it like Arcane Intellect or worse. But confirmation bias says that you will tend to notice the times when that one Paladin gets a really good draw out of the card.
The worst part about this is Paladin has plenty of other card draw options. You could nerf that card to the ground and Paladins wouldn't miss a beat. They would just switch it out for another draw card. This includes Secret Paladin. Heck, some decks don't even run Divine Favor because other forms of draw are more reliable or fit their deck better.
If that were the case, aggro paly wouldn't even be viable as an archetype. Hunter has their hero power, mage has their insane burst damage spells, paly has what? Sure, they have the best buff cards in the game, but relying on them causes you to expend your hand very quickly(you can see this if you try playing the deck without DF) and the deck simply gets outmatched by any sort of control decks.
But yeah, you are totally entitled to loving/hating the card. I have similar feelings for all of druid's mana acceleration cards even though I only find innervate close to be broken(unless you find it fun to get shredders played on turn one on you because the game decided to give you the dick).
Notice how I never said the card was "broken" or "overpowered" or "extremely essential to all paladins ever". All I said is that personally I absolutely despise that motherfucker, I just dont like the way it works, Im the type of guy who doesnt like being punished for doing nothing. Thats all, no need to get salty. Also, no, Aggro Paladin doesnt have other draw options, at least ones even close to the effectiveness of Divine Favor.
You are entitled to your opinion on the card. What you said was over dramatic, though. But fine. You don't like the card. Where you are still being over dramatic is that Divine Favor does not punish you for doing nothing. The only thing it can do is give the Paladin's deck a second wind depending on your remaining hand size. And the chances of that are not as high as you might think, unless you play a certain type of control deck. And even then, you overrate it.
Now let's look at card draw alternatives. Other forms of exclusive Paladin card draw include Blessing of Wisdom, Hammer of Wrath, Holy Wrath, Solemn Vigil, and Lay on Hands. This doesn't even cover neutral card draw options which you could mix in as well if you like. Please, tell me more about how Paladins don't have other good enough card draw options.
Based on your original rant I found humor in this line. I'm not salty. Paladin isn't even in my top 4 favorite classes. I just found you to be over the top with this.
Yeah I stopped reading at the part where you recommended Holy Wrath.
Yeah sure fine ok
Are you trolling me? I did not recommend anything. I simply listed all the paladin exclusive card draw outside of divine favor. This is why you actually read the posts you are responding to.
I am a player who likes to play control and midrange decks and i have been punished almost everytime because of this card. This isnt supposed to be like that. My opponent can take advantage of my playstyle and i dont have an answer to it so we can say that its broken.
If it just cycles itself, its not draw. Instead of the card that cycles itself, you could have a different random card from your deck, and you can guarantee that by cutting that pseudo-draw from your deck.
Not really. If it says draw a card, it's card draw. It still thins out your deck and it still draws from it. You could say that card draw that only cycles itself is not as efficient, as good, or whatever you want to call it. But if you draw a card, that's card draw. And then again, there are plenty of times where Divine Favor itself fits that very criteria of "cycling itself" because you only get 1 card. At least a card like Hammer of Wrath would do something else in addition to card draw.
Do you see what all of them have in common? While only some are total crap in any deck, all are crap in a pala deck that is not very slow. None of them can ever draw 5 cards or more for just 3 mana.
Yes, Holy Wrath sucks. But the others are fine. There are plenty of decks where all the card draw is based on multiple "cycle itself" cards that only draw 1 card but do other things. Cards such as Azure Drake or Loot Hoarder. Hammer of Wrath is another type of card like this. No, it won't be good as the sole source of card draw. But it can be part of the equation and do quite well.
The other problem you seem to have with the alternatives is that much of the card draw is situational. And yes they are. But so is divine favor. This problem, or illusion of a problem, is that people like you think divine favor solves all your card draw issues by itself. While it's ceiling is that, this is not consistent because it's a highly situational card just like other cards here that are situational. It's rare enough that you get one of them to work out perfectly in a game, let alone two.
Divine favor punishes opponent for holding cards like starving buzzard unleash punished opponent for having a big board. Except divine favor is worse cause you can't play around it. Give me old buzzard anyday
Divine favor punishes opponent for holding cards like starving buzzard unleash punished opponent for having a big board. Except divine favor is worse cause you can't play around it. Give me old buzzard anyday
You serious? That card draw was way worse for hunter, which was only balanced by the fact that it eventually ran out of steam if it didn't kill you early. Except, it didn't run out of steam because starving buzzard. It was also way more reliable and consistent. Divine favor won't get anywhere near the draw on average that the old unnerfed starving buzzard would reliably get hunters most games. And if they do, it's still easier to deal with getting that against Paladin today than it was for facing Hunter back then. You could make a potential exception for secret pally, but then that would be because of Mysterious Challenger, and not Divine Favor. And even then, I would argue that Hunter back then was worse.
Divine favor punishes opponent for holding cards like starving buzzard unleash punished opponent for having a big board. Except divine favor is worse cause you can't play around it. Give me old buzzard anyday
You serious? That card draw was way worse for hunter, which was only balanced by the fact that it eventually ran out of steam if it didn't kill you early. Except, it didn't run out of steam because starving buzzard. It was also way more reliable and consistent. Divine favor won't get anywhere near the draw on average that the old unnerfed starving buzzard would reliably get hunters most games. And if they do, it's still easier to deal with getting that against Paladin today than it was for facing Hunter back then. You could make a potential exception for secret pally, but then that would be because of Mysterious Challenger, and not Divine Favor. And even then, I would argue that Hunter back then was worse.
This^. Whenever someone mentions something being worse than pre-nerf buzzard/UTH, I assume that they didn't play back then. Shit was nuts.
It's a classic counter card that only seems unfair because aggro seems so unfair.
Exactly, in fact during Ladder I even dropped Divine Favor from my deck because I found it was way more often a dead card than not. But the only matches I ever had were mirrors and hunters, maybe the occasional druid.
you just didn't play the card as intended or must really suck, because that card gives terrible advantage...
Bump. This isn't a fucking whining thread, like some of you inbreds have assumed. It's a thread that I used to start discussion and gather opinions. I've succeeded in that, though some of your replies are garbage. Stop coming at me for making a thread that had the simple intention of sparking discussion.
Yung Sueezy
VS
Card is completely broken and here is why:
Against any Control/ Midrange Build = Pay 3, draw 3 - 6 cards.
Against agro mirrors = Pay 3 , draw 1-3 cards.
The worst case scenarios are equal to Arcane Intellect, and the best scenarios are " You win the game"
Retarded card. NERF NOW.
If that were the case, aggro paly wouldn't even be viable as an archetype. Hunter has their hero power, mage has their insane burst damage spells, paly has what? Sure, they have the best buff cards in the game, but relying on them causes you to expend your hand very quickly(you can see this if you try playing the deck without DF) and the deck simply gets outmatched by any sort of control decks.
But yeah, you are totally entitled to loving/hating the card. I have similar feelings for all of druid's mana acceleration cards even though I only find innervate close to be broken(unless you find it fun to get shredders played on turn one on you because the game decided to give you the dick).
I am a player who likes to play control and midrange decks and i have been punished almost everytime because of this card. This isnt supposed to be like that. My opponent can take advantage of my playstyle and i dont have an answer to it so we can say that its broken.
Divine favor punishes opponent for holding cards like starving buzzard unleash punished opponent for having a big board. Except divine favor is worse cause you can't play around it. Give me old buzzard anyday