One of the big differences is shaman can create minions where druids can't. So if your opponent doesn't burn up attacks killing what seem like useless minions you can have huge rounds. So I think in that context it is balanced versus what would seem like a better deal in Savage Roar.
I don't think bloodlust is useless. I am experimenting with two different Shaman decks one with a single bloodlust and one without bloodlust. It has won me games that I otherwise would have lost when I had a weak boad (multiple totems and 1 or 2 low cost creatures) facing imminent doom. It has also sat in my hand unused while I won and lost. As of now I am still undecided but I don't think it is an instant not include.
Savage Roar is more niche, Bloodlust is fine in most aggro Shaman decks due to the nature of his hero power. They are both for either burst or finishers. They may effectively trade in value if you have enough tokens out. Savage Roar's main difference is that the Druid also gains 2 attack - allowing it to push through a taunt that Bloodlust may not.
As for the topic at hand, remember that individual cards are not comparatively balanced across classes, they're balanced within the class. Holy Nova is 5 mana, aoe 2 heal + 2 damage. Consecrate is 4 mana aoe 2 damage - but would you want to see a Paladin with Holy Nova? Same deal with Hammer of Wrath, Shadow Bolt, Eviscerate, Frost Bolt, and Fireball. Look at the card for each class respective to their own card set.
Savage Roar is also decent in Arena. But FoN combo is reason to have it in constructed. And at 3 mana it's more viable play imo as well as offering hero to attack. At 5 mana Bloodlust is kinda win more OR desperation imo to quickly try clear board with no other plays.
In constructed: Hard to tell... Probably savage roar. I've seen it more
In arena: Bloodlust usually is better. It's a really good card to pick (you can have too many of them though). A lot of the time it will help you clear the board or finish off your opponent.
As others have pointed out, just in a side by side comparison, I think Savage Roar wins. Due both to its lower mana cost and the fact that the hero gets the bonus as well, it is easier to get value off of savage roar. The upside to Bloodlust is that it scales better with a full board and synergises well with the Shaman hero power.
I think that both are fairly well balanced in the context of their respective classes, with the possible exception of the savage roar + force of nature wombo combo which I have not personally had a lot of experience with.
Edit: Thank you autocorrect for that slightly inappropriate correction.
In constructed: Hard to tell... Probably savage roar. I've seen it more
In arena: Bloodlust usually is better. It's a really good card to pick (you can have too many of them though). A lot of the time it will help you clear the board or finish off your opponent.
This. And by "too many" I'm sure you mean more than one.
A week ago i would have said, that Savage roar is way better then Bloodlust. Bloodlust only buffs minions. So with 2 minions out Savage roar has the same value as than Bloodlust (damage wise) but is cheaper + the damage is split to 3 targets.
This opinion changed in my current arena run. I picked Up shaman and i didn't had much luck with crafting. A lot of random stuff in this deck, no Legendary or Epic, a common count of rares. And in my last few picks Bloodlust was to choose and i thought: "Why not?, Deck is not really strong why not just play for the fun." Played the deck until it was 3/2 lost barely to a rouge (2 life left). And after this match it happend. i won every single game from then with Bloodlust. I build up 3 or 4 creatures (always 2 totems present) and finished with Bloodlust. Its even bether if you combo it with wf. I finished my oponents for 26 damage and 18 damage was dealt with Bloodlust (combo with wf in 1 turn). now it's 7/2 finished 4 games in a row with bloodlust. Savage roar in my druid arena decks, haven't done this for me.
Agreed, I really like bloodlust in arena. Constructed, not so much. Reason being that in constructed, there's going to be enough AOE to keep you from getting 4-5 minions out at once. In arena, obviously its possible for that mage to have 3 flamestrikes or that shaman to have 4 lightning storms, but its more likely that the mage has only one, or none at all.
so as a rule of thumb we might say Savage roar only really needs to do about 5 damage to be worth its cost.
In real terms, this means you only need two creatures out to get some decent mileage out of the spell. While its often used as a late game finisher, I also think that the spell has its place in any sort of druid deck where you can realistically expect to have 2-3 creatures out on the board at any one time. Moreover, I'd argue that its cost and its ability to affect the Hero make it pretty flexible: the spell at its very worst still an expensive Claw.
Ehh, for eviscerate to do 4 damage it requires 2 cards...
Two cards for that four from Eviscerate? most rogue decks that run it will find little issue with that little detail. It isn't early removal unless necessary.
so as a rule of thumb we might say Savage roar only really needs to do about 5 damage to be worth its cost.
In real terms, this means you only need two creatures out to get some decent mileage out of the spell. While its often used as a late game finisher, I also think that the spell has its place in any sort of druid deck where you can realistically expect to have 2-3 creatures out on the board at any one time. Moreover, I'd argue that its cost and its ability to affect the Hero make it pretty flexible: the spell at its very worst still an expensive Claw.
This is partially faulty logic; the values aren't incorrect, its just about the way that the damage is delivered that is key here. Most burn spells are most useful when removing an opponent's creature to maintain positive board control and allow your creatures to keep swinging. Obviously you can get a lot of damage on the enemy hero with Savage Roar, but as a burn card it has serious issues because it forces you to discard your own creatures to remove your opponents'; plus its subject to taunts, and in the current meta you're seeing a lot more midgame taunters like Sen'jin Shieldmasta to counter all the rush decks.
Savage Roar is better, as it affects your hero as well, and has a better mana efficiency ratio than Bloodlust. However, Shaman has a very easy way of populating the board, so if bloodlust was 4 mana, it would be way too strong.
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Savage Roar vs Bloodlust
Is it me or is this just wrong??
Both useless.
Arena Tips
One of the big differences is shaman can create minions where druids can't. So if your opponent doesn't burn up attacks killing what seem like useless minions you can have huge rounds. So I think in that context it is balanced versus what would seem like a better deal in Savage Roar.
I don't think bloodlust is useless. I am experimenting with two different Shaman decks one with a single bloodlust and one without bloodlust. It has won me games that I otherwise would have lost when I had a weak boad (multiple totems and 1 or 2 low cost creatures) facing imminent doom. It has also sat in my hand unused while I won and lost. As of now I am still undecided but I don't think it is an instant not include.
Savage Roar is more niche, Bloodlust is fine in most aggro Shaman decks due to the nature of his hero power. They are both for either burst or finishers. They may effectively trade in value if you have enough tokens out. Savage Roar's main difference is that the Druid also gains 2 attack - allowing it to push through a taunt that Bloodlust may not.
As for the topic at hand, remember that individual cards are not comparatively balanced across classes, they're balanced within the class. Holy Nova is 5 mana, aoe 2 heal + 2 damage. Consecrate is 4 mana aoe 2 damage - but would you want to see a Paladin with Holy Nova? Same deal with Hammer of Wrath, Shadow Bolt, Eviscerate, Frost Bolt, and Fireball. Look at the card for each class respective to their own card set.
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Incoming savage roar nerf!!!
or Force of nature...
Sadly...
...Too young to die, too drunk to live...
Savage Roar is also decent in Arena. But FoN combo is reason to have it in constructed. And at 3 mana it's more viable play imo as well as offering hero to attack. At 5 mana Bloodlust is kinda win more OR desperation imo to quickly try clear board with no other plays.
In constructed: Hard to tell... Probably savage roar. I've seen it more
In arena: Bloodlust usually is better. It's a really good card to pick (you can have too many of them though). A lot of the time it will help you clear the board or finish off your opponent.
As others have pointed out, just in a side by side comparison, I think Savage Roar wins. Due both to its lower mana cost and the fact that the hero gets the bonus as well, it is easier to get value off of savage roar. The upside to Bloodlust is that it scales better with a full board and synergises well with the Shaman hero power.
I think that both are fairly well balanced in the context of their respective classes, with the possible exception of the savage roar + force of nature wombo combo which I have not personally had a lot of experience with.
Edit: Thank you autocorrect for that slightly inappropriate correction.
Both are gimmicky cards and are rarely seen at the top level.
Physika #1165
I'd actually be fine with having 2 in arena.
Savage roar actually sees a lot of play at high level. It is in a lot of druid decks with force of nature.
I used to use Savage Roar, then I realised I did not have Force of Nature.
sigh
Well, Savage roar and force of nature both are often run in high-level druid decks. Bloodlust, not so much for shaman.
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Roar is very good for arena, i take it very high priority. I generally skip bloodlust unless the other 2 cards suck.
Agreed, I really like bloodlust in arena. Constructed, not so much. Reason being that in constructed, there's going to be enough AOE to keep you from getting 4-5 minions out at once. In arena, obviously its possible for that mage to have 3 flamestrikes or that shaman to have 4 lightning storms, but its more likely that the mage has only one, or none at all.
Physika #1165
Ehh, for eviscerate to do 4 damage it requires 2 cards...
Two cards for that four from Eviscerate? most rogue decks that run it will find little issue with that little detail. It isn't early removal unless necessary.
WARNING: Opinions change with the meta!
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This is partially faulty logic; the values aren't incorrect, its just about the way that the damage is delivered that is key here. Most burn spells are most useful when removing an opponent's creature to maintain positive board control and allow your creatures to keep swinging. Obviously you can get a lot of damage on the enemy hero with Savage Roar, but as a burn card it has serious issues because it forces you to discard your own creatures to remove your opponents'; plus its subject to taunts, and in the current meta you're seeing a lot more midgame taunters like Sen'jin Shieldmasta to counter all the rush decks.
Physika #1165
Savage Roar is better, as it affects your hero as well, and has a better mana efficiency ratio than Bloodlust. However, Shaman has a very easy way of populating the board, so if bloodlust was 4 mana, it would be way too strong.