Can someone tell me the exact value appeal of Mind Control? I know it can really turn the tide of a game. I get that, but I don't think in the current meta it works at all. It's a turn 10 play (9 if for some weird reason you saved the coin 8 turns), and in the current meta I have seen games last as short as 4 turns. On average with all the hunter and warlock rush decks games are 4-6 turns long.
So what is the exact value of an extremely late game card that might only be stealing a 2-3 attack minion anyways? Instead would it not be easier to run with 2 Shadow Madness, 2 Cabal Shadow Priest, and MAYBE a Mind Control Tech? They all seem a better value play then a 10 mana to steal a mediocre creature play to me.
I've seen that card swing many an arena match up. It may just be better for that format. Keep in mind not ever card is going to be great in every single format, and this is likely one of them.
Mind control is a high risk, high reward card. You need a number of factors to line up for it to be game changing. The most obvious factor is that the game has to reach turn 10. After turn 10 you need to have a game state where you can spend the whole turn casting it (IE not need to heal yourself that turn). The opponnent also needs to put down a large minion.
The main risk of Mind Control is drawing it early game against aggro or tempo decks. Drawing something like Mind Control, Mind Control, Shadow word death in your opening hand is just game over verses a tempo, aggro or mid ranged deck
One MC not a big burden for any priest deck. Priest generally as a class nicely counter rush decks if you run dudes like Dark Cultists and Soulpriests and have them in opener. Thus you got decent chances survive until 10 turn and then stealing Highmane or Doomguard may be decisive.
Can someone tell me the exact value appeal of Mind Control? I know it can really turn the tide of a game. I get that, but I don't think in the current meta it works at all. It's a turn 10 play (9 if for some weird reason you saved the coin 8 turns), and in the current meta I have seen games last as short as 4 turns. On average with all the hunter and warlock rush decks games are 4-6 turns long.
So what is the exact value of an extremely late game card that might only be stealing a 2-3 attack minion anyways? Instead would it not be easier to run with 2 Shadow Madness, 2 Cabal Shadow Priest, and MAYBE a Mind Control Tech? They all seem a better value play then a 10 mana to steal a mediocre creature play to me.
I think the answer is simply not to play Mind Control in a Hunter or Warlock rush deck.
wat
srsly though, Mind Control is used by control decks, against control decks. If you are ever in a situation where you're using Mind Control to steal a Flame Imp on T10, the validity of that particular play is the least of your problems.
Also, 4-6 turns as an average game duration is ludicrous. My average game against Zoo this season (Playing Paladin), is 15.61 Turns over 23 games.
Also, 4-6 turns as an average game duration is ludicrous. My average game against Zoo this season (Playing Paladin), is 15.61 Turns over 23 games.
Against Hunter is 17.42 Turns over 19 games.
Can i ask you one offtopic question? Which instrument you use for stats collecting? I've seen few programms but afraid to use em, you know due possible Blizzard User Agreement violation and as a result ban.
The value of Mindcontrol is obvious. I honestly don't understand how anyone can not see that. You gain a Ragnaros, they lose a Ragnaros. Or Ysera, Grommash, Cairne, Ancient of War, Molten/Mountain Giant etc.
The only times you'll see a priest using Mindcontrol on something weaker is:
Top deck wars where not stealing a weak minion would likely lose you the game
Act of desperation at which point the priest likely already lost
To maintain board dominance in which case the priest likely already won
If you're otherwise stealing a weak minion, it's likely you're just playing it wrong. And while sure, the meta currently is pretty quick and some games will end by Turn 6, it's not uncommon for a Control priest to make it to post turn 10 even against the fastest of decks. Against other control decks, MC is amazing.
Mind control the Sylvannas value. Will stay in hand vs frost mage though :) .
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I'm a humble and friendly european indie living in Asia. During the day I build computer games. During the night, I am batma I build computer games. Together with a wonderful artist, I help run this very unique comic site : Comic Devs
Can someone tell me the exact value appeal of Mind Control? I know it can really turn the tide of a game. I get that, but I don't think in the current meta it works at all. It's a turn 10 play (9 if for some weird reason you saved the coin 8 turns), and in the current meta I have seen games last as short as 4 turns. On average with all the hunter and warlock rush decks games are 4-6 turns long.
So what is the exact value of an extremely late game card that might only be stealing a 2-3 attack minion anyways? Instead would it not be easier to run with 2 Shadow Madness, 2 Cabal Shadow Priest, and MAYBE a Mind Control Tech? They all seem a better value play then a 10 mana to steal a mediocre creature play to me.
I think the answer is simply not to play Mind Control in a Hunter or Warlock rush deck.
wat
srsly though, Mind Control is used by control decks, against control decks. If you are ever in a situation where you're using Mind Control to steal a Flame Imp on T10, the validity of that particular play is the least of your problems.
Also, 4-6 turns as an average game duration is ludicrous. My average game against Zoo this season (Playing Paladin), is 15.61 Turns over 23 games.
Against Hunter is 17.42 Turns over 19 games.
I feel it's not a sufficient rush deck if it's taking closer to 20 turns to end. An ideal rush on ideal terms end far before 16 and 17 turns from what i've seen.
Even vs rush decks, Priests usually have 4 aoe's (Aucheni +CoH x2, Holy Nova x2), and several other spot removals (Cabal, Shadow Madness, SW:P/D) and their heals, the matchup vs aggro isn't near as bad as most people make it out to be. Sacrificing too much to make your deck better vs aggro will in the end cause you to lose more games in total. With all these cards, (barring a horrible start for the Priest) you should be making it quite often to turn 10+
Mind control, while expensive, almost always has a target. Causing them to lose all that mana they spent, and the creature. Essentially a wasted turn for them while you get their creature. If you don't find a good target, just don't play it. More often than not, it saves your game. You can take it out if you want, but for most, its value is just too good.
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All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. - T. E. Lawrence
Also, 4-6 turns as an average game duration is ludicrous. My average game against Zoo this season (Playing Paladin), is 15.61 Turns over 23 games.
Against Hunter is 17.42 Turns over 19 games.
Can i ask you one offtopic question? Which instrument you use for stats collecting? I've seen few programms but afraid to use em, you know due possible Blizzard User Agreement violation and as a result ban.
I use Hearthstone Tracker. For those particular stats I had to do some math, as it only gives the turn count for each individual game. I'm not too worried about getting banned over it, it doesn't give me any advantage that an Excel Spreadsheet couldn't give just as well. I've been using it for months, and didn't get hit in the ban waves.
Can someone tell me the exact value appeal of Mind Control? I know it can really turn the tide of a game. I get that, but I don't think in the current meta it works at all. It's a turn 10 play (9 if for some weird reason you saved the coin 8 turns), and in the current meta I have seen games last as short as 4 turns. On average with all the hunter and warlock rush decks games are 4-6 turns long.
So what is the exact value of an extremely late game card that might only be stealing a 2-3 attack minion anyways? Instead would it not be easier to run with 2 Shadow Madness, 2 Cabal Shadow Priest, and MAYBE a Mind Control Tech? They all seem a better value play then a 10 mana to steal a mediocre creature play to me.
I think the answer is simply not to play Mind Control in a Hunter or Warlock rush deck.
wat
srsly though, Mind Control is used by control decks, against control decks. If you are ever in a situation where you're using Mind Control to steal a Flame Imp on T10, the validity of that particular play is the least of your problems.
Also, 4-6 turns as an average game duration is ludicrous. My average game against Zoo this season (Playing Paladin), is 15.61 Turns over 23 games.
Against Hunter is 17.42 Turns over 19 games.
I feel it's not a sufficient rush deck if it's taking closer to 20 turns to end. An ideal rush on ideal terms end far before 16 and 17 turns from what i've seen.
Ideal terms for a rush deck is a game where I don't draw any hate/counters. Those games are represented in my sample. Against Hunter, the shortest game was 4 turns. If "Pass Turn" was the only action I took each game, I'm sure the minimum would be closer to the average.
Against a slow deck that doesn't immediately fold to aggro, the matches tend to be slower.
Mind Control is balanced for stealing a 4 or 5 mana cost minion. 5 is definitely a valuable steal, while 4 is like paying 2 mana for 1 card advantage:
You'd not be unhappy to thoughtsteal an Assassinate plus a Chillwind Yeti -- and you'd not be unhappy to summon Chillwind Yeti and kill theirs with their own assassinate, even though you paid a total of 12 mana for this; 3 one turn and 9 another.
Can someone tell me the exact value appeal of Mind Control? I know it can really turn the tide of a game. I get that, but I don't think in the current meta it works at all. It's a turn 10 play (9 if for some weird reason you saved the coin 8 turns), and in the current meta I have seen games last as short as 4 turns. On average with all the hunter and warlock rush decks games are 4-6 turns long.
So what is the exact value of an extremely late game card that might only be stealing a 2-3 attack minion anyways? Instead would it not be easier to run with 2 Shadow Madness, 2 Cabal Shadow Priest, and MAYBE a Mind Control Tech? They all seem a better value play then a 10 mana to steal a mediocre creature play to me.
I've moved your thread to Card Discussion.
I've seen that card swing many an arena match up. It may just be better for that format. Keep in mind not ever card is going to be great in every single format, and this is likely one of them.
Mind control is a high risk, high reward card. You need a number of factors to line up for it to be game changing. The most obvious factor is that the game has to reach turn 10. After turn 10 you need to have a game state where you can spend the whole turn casting it (IE not need to heal yourself that turn). The opponnent also needs to put down a large minion.
The main risk of Mind Control is drawing it early game against aggro or tempo decks. Drawing something like Mind Control, Mind Control, Shadow word death in your opening hand is just game over verses a tempo, aggro or mid ranged deck
One MC not a big burden for any priest deck. Priest generally as a class nicely counter rush decks if you run dudes like Dark Cultists and Soulpriests and have them in opener. Thus you got decent chances survive until 10 turn and then stealing Highmane or Doomguard may be decisive.
I bring life and pffffffffffffff!
I think the answer is simply not to play Mind Control in a Hunter or Warlock rush deck.
wat
srsly though, Mind Control is used by control decks, against control decks. If you are ever in a situation where you're using Mind Control to steal a Flame Imp on T10, the validity of that particular play is the least of your problems.
Also, 4-6 turns as an average game duration is ludicrous. My average game against Zoo this season (Playing Paladin), is 15.61 Turns over 23 games.
Against Hunter is 17.42 Turns over 19 games.
Can i ask you one offtopic question? Which instrument you use for stats collecting? I've seen few programms but afraid to use em, you know due possible Blizzard User Agreement violation and as a result ban.
I bring life and pffffffffffffff!
The value of Mindcontrol is obvious. I honestly don't understand how anyone can not see that. You gain a Ragnaros, they lose a Ragnaros. Or Ysera, Grommash, Cairne, Ancient of War, Molten/Mountain Giant etc.
The only times you'll see a priest using Mindcontrol on something weaker is:
If you're otherwise stealing a weak minion, it's likely you're just playing it wrong. And while sure, the meta currently is pretty quick and some games will end by Turn 6, it's not uncommon for a Control priest to make it to post turn 10 even against the fastest of decks. Against other control decks, MC is amazing.
Even in this meta, using Mind Control on a top deck Savannah Highmane or Doomguard late into the game is pretty good value.
Mind control the Sylvannas value. Will stay in hand vs frost mage though :) .
I'm a humble and friendly european indie living in Asia. During the day I build computer games. During the night,
I am batmaI build computer games.Together with a wonderful artist, I help run this very unique comic site : Comic Devs
I feel it's not a sufficient rush deck if it's taking closer to 20 turns to end. An ideal rush on ideal terms end far before 16 and 17 turns from what i've seen.
Even vs rush decks, Priests usually have 4 aoe's (Aucheni +CoH x2, Holy Nova x2), and several other spot removals (Cabal, Shadow Madness, SW:P/D) and their heals, the matchup vs aggro isn't near as bad as most people make it out to be. Sacrificing too much to make your deck better vs aggro will in the end cause you to lose more games in total. With all these cards, (barring a horrible start for the Priest) you should be making it quite often to turn 10+
Mind control, while expensive, almost always has a target. Causing them to lose all that mana they spent, and the creature. Essentially a wasted turn for them while you get their creature. If you don't find a good target, just don't play it. More often than not, it saves your game. You can take it out if you want, but for most, its value is just too good.
All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. - T. E. Lawrence
I use Hearthstone Tracker. For those particular stats I had to do some math, as it only gives the turn count for each individual game. I'm not too worried about getting banned over it, it doesn't give me any advantage that an Excel Spreadsheet couldn't give just as well. I've been using it for months, and didn't get hit in the ban waves.
Ideal terms for a rush deck is a game where I don't draw any hate/counters. Those games are represented in my sample. Against Hunter, the shortest game was 4 turns. If "Pass Turn" was the only action I took each game, I'm sure the minimum would be closer to the average.
Against a slow deck that doesn't immediately fold to aggro, the matches tend to be slower.
Mind Control is balanced for stealing a 4 or 5 mana cost minion.
5 is definitely a valuable steal, while 4 is like paying 2 mana for 1 card advantage:
You'd not be unhappy to thoughtsteal an Assassinate plus a Chillwind Yeti -- and you'd not be unhappy to summon Chillwind Yeti and kill theirs with their own assassinate, even though you paid a total of 12 mana for this; 3 one turn and 9 another.