I love the effect, I hate the execution. If it only went off once, where would the problem be? So, my fixes would be:
1. Solve the damn animation issue: there just isn't time for all the battlecries in full. Put each card up and have Shudderwock say "Haha-HA - get in there" each time, or something, for a second or two each.
2. Review every single battlecry in the game and tighten up the sloppy ones. The Saronite battlecry should summon another Saronite, not another Shudderwock. But if that one's fixed, there are probably other exploitable ones. Review the whole damn lot in the light of this card and tweak the text so they're not exploitable.
Then we're probably OK. Good luck making a deck that can reliably get multiple Shudderwocks, even with Grumble, if you don't have the broken 'summon a copy' interaction. If you can do it, you deserve the wins - it'll be a niche deck at best and we can actually have fun with what ought to be a fun card.
One thing, to the folks saying 'what were the playtesters doing?' Perhaps they were discovering all the counters that we haven't had time to spot yet, and they let the card into the game because they know there are some cast-iron Shudder-killers waiting to be found when we stop bitching and look for them?
Nice topic but i really dont believe that this deck is broken!!! Why ? Well its a combo deck that just work after 10 turn so... and you need to draw the combo cards all of them and they are 5 cards. The problem its that ppl just want to play some op control decks like cubelock or the new warrior and this deck its pretty strong against them !!!! This deck against aggro with no taunt draw or board clear you die in 5 / 6 turn ... stop to say that and it was the first day of new expansion for sure ppl will find a solution to get over this deck !!! Same happens to cubelock (with control/steal priest and spitefull priest)
It's a 100% winrate guaranteed win vs any control deck. How do you call that "not broken" and sleep at night?
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I already faced some shudderwock decks with lightning storm and volcano. So, the deck have chance to beat aggro decks. And another slower decks the winrate is 100%. How this can't be broken? lol
If copies of Shudderwock end up back in your hand, their mana cost can't be reduced, it's set to 9. Card still has plenty of uses, but you don't get wins via a 5 minute slow death animation.
deck has a 42% wr in legend to rank 5 (optimized anti aggro version). I get it beats control but it gets destroyed by aggro. It's not broken, except the animation. Unlike raza priest, the win rate goes down as you move up the ranks. It's an anti control meta deck, nothing more, nothing less.
deck has a 42% wr in legend to rank 5 (optimized anti aggro version). I get it beats control but it gets destroyed by aggro. It's not broken, except the animation. Unlike raza priest, the win rate goes down as you move up the ranks. It's an anti control meta deck, nothing more, nothing less.
Against previous OTK/combo decks, Control decks had tools to interact with, disrupt, or outright prevent their combo, if they didn't have a burst finisher. With the tools that rotated to Wild, we no longer have that. Shudderwock should not have a 100% winrate against other control decks. No deck should always win against another archetype. The counter to Shudderwock shouldn't be "play aggro." I don't care if I lose a majority of the time against it, but every time, simply because my deck is slower? That is MSOG Jade Druid levels of unacceptable.
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The problem with nerfing lifedrinker is that people will use nightblade instead. Sure, you dont get the heal from the battlecry, but I think that is only relevant versus the aggro matchups.
My first instinct is to limit it to one copy of each battlecry per cycle.
It will reduce the time some (no showing a half dozen pointless murmuring elemental), slow down the combo by adding less to hand and doing less damage per time. While keeping the combo viable
Whether it needs further needs is a separate discussion, but I think this would be a quick, easy step forward.
deck has a 42% wr in legend to rank 5 (optimized anti aggro version). I get it beats control but it gets destroyed by aggro. It's not broken, except the animation. Unlike raza priest, the win rate goes down as you move up the ranks. It's an anti control meta deck, nothing more, nothing less.
Against previous OTK/combo decks, Control decks had tools to interact with, disrupt, or outright prevent their combo, if they didn't have a burst finisher. With the tools that rotated to Wild, we no longer have that. Shudderwock should not have a 100% winrate against other control decks. No deck should always win against another archetype. The counter to Shudderwock shouldn't be "play aggro." I don't care if I lose a majority of the time against it, but every time, simply because my deck is slower? That is MSOG Jade Druid levels of unacceptable.
I mean it's no different than kb rogue or quest mage last month. Decks had 85-90% wr vs control but lost to aggro.
deck has a 42% wr in legend to rank 5 (optimized anti aggro version). I get it beats control but it gets destroyed by aggro. It's not broken, except the animation. Unlike raza priest, the win rate goes down as you move up the ranks. It's an anti control meta deck, nothing more, nothing less.
Against previous OTK/combo decks, Control decks had tools to interact with, disrupt, or outright prevent their combo, if they didn't have a burst finisher. With the tools that rotated to Wild, we no longer have that. Shudderwock should not have a 100% winrate against other control decks. No deck should always win against another archetype. The counter to Shudderwock shouldn't be "play aggro." I don't care if I lose a majority of the time against it, but every time, simply because my deck is slower? That is MSOG Jade Druid levels of unacceptable.
I mean it's no different than kb rogue or quest mage last month. Decks had 85-90% wr vs control but lost to aggro.
Actually it is, because simply drawing and playing KB wasn't "go infinite and win the game," and some decks could legitimately 'play around it.' That meta had Coldlight Oracles, and in some cases, you could win with Control Mage simply by making a bunch of Water Elementals and freezing face.
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3. ITS A DECK LIKE EXODIA.. YOU MAKE THE COMBO GOOD YOU WIN BASICALLY
the "broken" part is that you can play the combo pieces pretty much whenever you want. It's not like OTK wild druid, or exodia mage, where you have to stall until you have it all in your hand. It's much more akin to the old shadowreaper deck where every step to get to your machine gun phase could just be played when you drew it. It makes the decks MUCH less interactive, it's like they're playing single player.
3. ITS A DECK LIKE EXODIA.. YOU MAKE THE COMBO GOOD YOU WIN BASICALLY
the "broken" part is that you can play the combo pieces pretty much whenever you want. It's not like OTK wild druid, or exodia mage, where you have to stall until you have it all in your hand. It's much more akin to the old shadowreaper deck where every step to get to your machine gun phase could just be played when you drew it. It makes the decks MUCH less interactive, it's like they're playing single player.
every OTK is not interactive, by nature. Everyone was complaining how non interactive coldlight and ice block were. There's no difference between shudderwock, where you have to get the specific cards, and a druid deck that combos off with avianna into kun and malygos. I fall to see how shudderwock otk is any more non interactive than any other otk deck
That is true. OTK is not interactive by nature. Interestingly, we used to have Dirty Rat as tool to somewhat combat it. Maybe the community wouldn't be up in arms if there was tech tool to combat (and I mean combat it, not disable it). With Dirty Rat, there was at least a chance you could pull Archmage Antonidas or Sorcerer's Apprentice early.
I love the effect, I hate the execution. If it only went off once, where would the problem be? So, my fixes would be:
1. Solve the damn animation issue: there just isn't time for all the battlecries in full. Put each card up and have Shudderwock say "Haha-HA - get in there" each time, or something, for a second or two each.
2. Review every single battlecry in the game and tighten up the sloppy ones. The Saronite battlecry should summon another Saronite, not another Shudderwock. But if that one's fixed, there are probably other exploitable ones. Review the whole damn lot in the light of this card and tweak the text so they're not exploitable.
Then we're probably OK. Good luck making a deck that can reliably get multiple Shudderwocks, even with Grumble, if you don't have the broken 'summon a copy' interaction. If you can do it, you deserve the wins - it'll be a niche deck at best and we can actually have fun with what ought to be a fun card.
One thing, to the folks saying 'what were the playtesters doing?' Perhaps they were discovering all the counters that we haven't had time to spot yet, and they let the card into the game because they know there are some cast-iron Shudder-killers waiting to be found when we stop bitching and look for them?
I'm me - who are you?
you guys wanted something that contests cube...well here you go lol
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hey this shudderwock shit is seriously messed up i am serious here it needs to be fixed asap i cant wait 20 min combos and shit
I already faced some shudderwock decks with lightning storm and volcano. So, the deck have chance to beat aggro decks. And another slower decks the winrate is 100%. How this can't be broken? lol
Constructive fix suggestion: Change the text of Saronite Chain Gang to read, "Battlecry: Summon a 2/3 Gang Member with Taunt."
This makes Shudderwock unable to copy itself and thus go infinite. It would be a one time deal, as it should be with big expensive legendaries.
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Anyone who says this shitcard is not broken is just playing it themselves.
Just delete the card. It's super OP and super-broken and will only fuck things up badly in the future.
If copies of Shudderwock end up back in your hand, their mana cost can't be reduced, it's set to 9. Card still has plenty of uses, but you don't get wins via a 5 minute slow death animation.
deck has a 42% wr in legend to rank 5 (optimized anti aggro version). I get it beats control but it gets destroyed by aggro. It's not broken, except the animation. Unlike raza priest, the win rate goes down as you move up the ranks. It's an anti control meta deck, nothing more, nothing less.
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The problem with nerfing lifedrinker is that people will use nightblade instead. Sure, you dont get the heal from the battlecry, but I think that is only relevant versus the aggro matchups.
It could sound weird but I haven't lost a single game vs Shudderwock using BakuQuest Warrior. Just rush the quest and spam DIE INSECT!
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My first instinct is to limit it to one copy of each battlecry per cycle.
It will reduce the time some (no showing a half dozen pointless murmuring elemental), slow down the combo by adding less to hand and doing less damage per time. While keeping the combo viable
Whether it needs further needs is a separate discussion, but I think this would be a quick, easy step forward.
Current Deck -http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/240420-army-paladin - Token Paladin
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That is true. OTK is not interactive by nature. Interestingly, we used to have Dirty Rat as tool to somewhat combat it. Maybe the community wouldn't be up in arms if there was tech tool to combat (and I mean combat it, not disable it). With Dirty Rat, there was at least a chance you could pull Archmage Antonidas or Sorcerer's Apprentice early.