To the people saying this card is good, tell me, exactly when does it get good? Stop me any time.
1/1
2/2
3/3
4/4
5/5
6/6
7/7
8/8
9/9
10/10
I wouldn't even play a vanilla minion with those stats, let alone one that can be silenced.
It will probably be passable in arena. In standard though? Sadface
turn 1. Coin + Innervate 4/4
turn 1 Double innervate 5/5
turn 4 cheated with Wild Growth + Innervate 6/6 when your opponent next turn can use 3 mana.
1/1
2/2
3/3
4/4
5/5
6/6
7/7
8/8
9/9
10/10
All the above naturally. You have always a vanilla card with correct stats to fit in your game depending on the game status.
You cannot factor ramp into card evaluuation like that! Sure you could double innervate and coin out a 6/6 on turn 1, but people are arguing that it is worse than the 6 drops you could play in that situation.
This card is difficult to evaluate; at any given value of X it is bad, but that is the point, if it was good at any given value the card would be overpowered.
You are paying for the flexibility and the consistency, this is solid topdeck late game and curve filler early and mid. For that reason it is better than a lot of people give it credit for. In arena, when making a solid play every turn is important this will be insane!
Actually it makes sense to factor the ramp into the card evaluation to an extent. If you have a 6 drop, you need coin and two innervates to get it out on turn 1 (and it will most likely be better than a 6/6). But if you only have one innervate, you can't play the 6-drop while you still can play a 3/3 Forbidden Ancient on turn 1.
Besides that, I peronally do not like this card a lot.
Druid staple probably? "A 4/4 for 4 is worse than a Yeti" isn't an argument, a 4/4 for 4 is better than hero power pass, it's better than a 3 drop on 4 e.t.c. I expect this not only to be a staple, but to be a card that you always keep in the mull alongside innervate and growth. You will have curve holes in 95% of your games, you will pass T4/5 from game to game. I would even say that not running this is probably win more.
My statements might be bold, but this is in no way a bad card, if it wouldn't be played it would simply be because of the deck being too tight.
This set is really going to test how valuable having flexibility filling out your mana curve is going to be. And they made sure we got just about every effect to try this "use up your mana" cards with. The stats themselves for a card like Forbidden Ancient aren't what would make it powerful, it's having a card you can play at anytime when you really don't have the right cards to play that turn.
Druid staple probably? "A 4/4 for 4 is worse than a Yeti" isn't an argument, a 4/4 for 4 is better than hero power pass, it's better than a 3 drop on 4 e.t.c. I expect this not only to be a staple, but to be a card that you always keep in the mull alongside innervate and growth. You will have curve holes in 95% of your games, you will pass T4/5 from game to game. I would even say that not running this is probably win more.
My statements might be bold, but this is in no way a bad card, if it wouldn't be played it would simply be because of the deck being too tight.
Except if you do any math, 2 "mana" makes that 1/1... whereas this: 2 mana makes it 3/3. If you really brought in every card game, there's been lightning bolt (but it's also in WoW too), and many other effects similar to fireball. This would be the same as claiming damage was something a game made up and no one else can copy it. Any tree like creature could be seen as a copy from Lord of the Rings with Ents.
Asides from that: decent card on turns 1-5: 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5 (Turn 5 can trade with yeti and survive). Beyond 6/6 is the time where it'd typically be targetted by a removal so without any other effects, I'd keep it 6/6 or under (unless you're top decking and this pops out for 11/11 in one of those games).
Except if you do any math, 2 "mana" makes that 1/1... whereas this: 2 mana makes it 3/3. If you really brought in every card game, there's been lightning bolt (but it's also in WoW too), and many other effects similar to fireball. This would be the same as claiming damage was something a game made up and no one else can copy it. Any tree like creature could be seen as a copy from Lord of the Rings with Ents.
Asides from that: decent card on turns 1-5: 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5 (Turn 5 can trade with yeti and survive). Beyond 6/6 is the time where it'd typically be targetted by a removal so without any other effects, I'd keep it 6/6 or under (unless you're top decking and this pops out for 11/11 in one of those games).
It seems to me that you misunderstood the Card. Forbidden Ancient will be an X/X with X being the mana you are having left. If you have 1 mana, he will be a 1/1. If you have 5 mana, he will be a 5/5. That is because he costs 1 mana which is paid before the battlecry resolves.
It will never be an 11/11 (innervate can't give you more than 10 mana)
Lets say you curve out well until turn 4, then you dont have a play. The question is why?, its probably because your hand is loaded with a good mid - lategame (high quality 5,6,7) drops that will let you come back into the game, even if you skip a turn.
So missing Turn 4 probably wins you the game? And that is your main point? Don't even take this out of context, you literally said that.
what happens if you summon this with bran on the field? does it get the increase double?
I don't think so. Brann simply triggers your battlecry twice. And the battlecry is "spend all your mana. Gain +1/+1 for each mana spent". Since spending all your mana is part of the battlecry, the second time this battlecry triggers you will only be able to spend 0 mana which reuslts in zero statgain. At least that's how I would think it works.
All i can is Druid got last place this expansion and this card is worse then Forbidden Shaping and even that card is considered average and probably won't see much play.
Except if you do any math, 2 "mana" makes that 1/1... whereas this: 2 mana makes it 3/3. If you really brought in every card game, there's been lightning bolt (but it's also in WoW too), and many other effects similar to fireball. This would be the same as claiming damage was something a game made up and no one else can copy it. Any tree like creature could be seen as a copy from Lord of the Rings with Ents.
Asides from that: decent card on turns 1-5: 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, 5/5 (Turn 5 can trade with yeti and survive). Beyond 6/6 is the time where it'd typically be targetted by a removal so without any other effects, I'd keep it 6/6 or under (unless you're top decking and this pops out for 11/11 in one of those games).
It seems to me that you misunderstood the Card. Forbidden Ancient will be an X/X with X being the mana you are having left. If you have 1 mana, he will be a 1/1. If you have 5 mana, he will be a 5/5. That is because he costs 1 mana which is paid before the battlecry resolves.
It will never be an 11/11 (innervate can't give you more than 10 mana)
It would seem you forgot Emperor Thaurissan is a card. Making its initial cost 0. So it could in fact be an 11/11 with 10 mana spent.
The text doesn't make it clear if it is the mana spent by the battlecry(x/x for x), for casting the minion (1/1 + x/x) or spent mana in general. It can very well work like the Shaman Trogg, that gets 1 attack for each locked crystal. But it might make it quite OP. Turn 3 Wrath and a 3/3, Turn 5 Swipe and a 5/5. quite crazy. But it would justify being so weak to silence.
i think since it occurs as a battlecry, it doesnt include the 1 mana used to summon it, because the battlecry triggers after that 1 mana is spent to summon it.
Sure you could double innervate and coin out a 6/6 on turn 1, but people are arguing that it is worse than the 6 drops you could play in that situation.
This card is difficult to evaluate; at any given value of X it is bad, but that is the point, if it was good at any given value the card would be overpowered.
You are paying for the flexibility and the consistency, this is solid topdeck late game and curve filler early and mid.
For that reason it is better than a lot of people give it credit for.
In arena, when making a solid play every turn is important this will be insane!
Actually it makes sense to factor the ramp into the card evaluation to an extent. If you have a 6 drop, you need coin and two innervates to get it out on turn 1 (and it will most likely be better than a 6/6). But if you only have one innervate, you can't play the 6-drop while you still can play a 3/3 Forbidden Ancient on turn 1.
Besides that, I peronally do not like this card a lot.
Druid staple probably?
"A 4/4 for 4 is worse than a Yeti" isn't an argument, a 4/4 for 4 is better than hero power pass, it's better than a 3 drop on 4 e.t.c.
I expect this not only to be a staple, but to be a card that you always keep in the mull alongside innervate and growth. You will have curve holes in 95% of your games, you will pass T4/5 from game to game. I would even say that not running this is probably win more.
My statements might be bold, but this is in no way a bad card, if it wouldn't be played it would simply be because of the deck being too tight.
This set is really going to test how valuable having flexibility filling out your mana curve is going to be. And they made sure we got just about every effect to try this "use up your mana" cards with. The stats themselves for a card like Forbidden Ancient aren't what would make it powerful, it's having a card you can play at anytime when you really don't have the right cards to play that turn.
Arena, love it. Constructed i think there are better options ;) maaybe this will see play in ramp?
what happens if you summon this with bran on the field? does it get the increase double?
All i can is Druid got last place this expansion and this card is worse then Forbidden Shaping and even that card is considered average and probably won't see much play.
I think this will definitely see play seeing as Druids can ramp quite easily so you'd see a 5/5 on turn 4 usually. Mabye even more
This would have been amazing if it were a 0 mana 0/1.
Yes, that would work.
The text doesn't make it clear if it is the mana spent by the battlecry(x/x for x), for casting the minion (1/1 + x/x) or spent mana in general. It can very well work like the Shaman Trogg, that gets 1 attack for each locked crystal. But it might make it quite OP. Turn 3 Wrath and a 3/3, Turn 5 Swipe and a 5/5. quite crazy. But it would justify being so weak to silence.
i think since it occurs as a battlecry, it doesnt include the 1 mana used to summon it, because the battlecry triggers after that 1 mana is spent to summon it.
EDITED