And I completely agree! But, keep in mind, that's one of the cards that keeps C'thun in Check. Escecially if you are going to play more control rogue (I'm so looking forward to it.) where you shadow step the C'thun and who knows how that's going to work?!?!
But again, I'm in agreement. Reno is one of the many way to counter a C'thun,
I also think rogue C'Thun will be powerful (still need to see the other cards to be released tho).
Since many cards can already counter C'Thun, it'll mostly be a finisher I think, when you already have the board control so you can deny a Reno with the board damages and clean stuff like Acolyte of Pain or other damage taker like.
I believe each class will have a slightly different way to interact with C'thun and will go about different ways in interacting with him. Obviously just a guess but looking at the new Druid Card Klaxxi Amberweaver It looks like Druid may want to play a mid game version of C'thun, buffing him enables Klaxxi. So it's less about the huge finisher at the end and more about midrange creatures weaking the opponent with a strong (but not overwhelming) finisher in c'thun himself. I am excited to see what the other class c'thun cards do :D
I hate this kind of card. Blizzard is talking about how they dont want people to combo you down from their hand. Then they release anyfin then this shit. Just a miserable experience to play against such things. If your opponent has the combo he just kills you turn 10. Nothing you can do really except maybe kill them before that or hope their draw sucks.
A legendary minion that is so expensive and requires most of the deck to be built around him needs to be strong in order to make a difference and not end up in the trash can. Plus, the damage is randomly distributed. With the same logic, at least one of the spells obtained from Rafaam should automatically give you the win - which of course is not true. It's not a case of charging treants, murlocs, patrons, Shadowstepped Leeroys etc. Plus, there are certain requirements that must be met for a C'Thun deck to work, providing weaknesses as well (for example, playing his buffing minions instead of the optimal ones that you would otherwise play).
I think you're underestimating that battlecry. It's going to be like 20-20 deal 20 damage split randomly twice.
I hate this kind of card. Blizzard is talking about how they dont want people to combo you down from their hand. Then they release anyfin then this shit. Just a miserable experience to play against such things. If your opponent has the combo he just kills you turn 10. Nothing you can do really except maybe kill them before that or hope their draw sucks.
A legendary minion that is so expensive and requires most of the deck to be built around him needs to be strong in order to make a difference and not end up in the trash can. Plus, the damage is randomly distributed. With the same logic, at least one of the spells obtained from Rafaam should automatically give you the win - which of course is not true. It's not a case of charging treants, murlocs, patrons, Shadowstepped Leeroys etc. Plus, there are certain requirements that must be met for a C'Thun deck to work, providing weaknesses as well (for example, playing his buffing minions instead of the optimal ones that you would otherwise play).
I think you're underestimating that battlecry. It's going to be like 20-20 deal 20 damage split randomly twice.
(a) 20 looks like a number that's way too high and optimistic at the moment, at least according to the cards we've seen and according to some sort of balance you need to keep in a C'Thun deck (you can't ONLY play buffing minions and you can't rely on Brann living for more than one turn). (b) Why twice? That's only with Brann on the board, and every player who sees an instantly indentifiable C'Thun deck will reserve instant removal for Brann, so he won't be on the board and the mana total will prevent a combo on the same turn.
what will happen if you return C'thun to your hand and after he was by cultists and replay him? does he retain his buffs? what if was also buffed by a 'normal' buff (like blessing of kings)? what he was silenced?
I hate this kind of card. Blizzard is talking about how they dont want people to combo you down from their hand. Then they release anyfin then this shit. Just a miserable experience to play against such things. If your opponent has the combo he just kills you turn 10. Nothing you can do really except maybe kill them before that or hope their draw sucks.
A legendary minion that is so expensive and requires most of the deck to be built around him needs to be strong in order to make a difference and not end up in the trash can. Plus, the damage is randomly distributed. With the same logic, at least one of the spells obtained from Rafaam should automatically give you the win - which of course is not true. It's not a case of charging treants, murlocs, patrons, Shadowstepped Leeroys etc. Plus, there are certain requirements that must be met for a C'Thun deck to work, providing weaknesses as well (for example, playing his buffing minions instead of the optimal ones that you would otherwise play).
I think you're underestimating that battlecry. It's going to be like 20-20 deal 20 damage split randomly twice.
(a) 20 looks like a number that's way too high and optimistic at the moment, at least according to the cards we've seen and according to some sort of balance you need to keep in a C'Thun deck (you can't ONLY play buffing minions and you can't rely on Brann living for more than one turn). (b) Why twice? That's only with Brann on the board, and every player who sees an instantly indentifiable C'Thun deck will reserve instant removal for Brann, so he won't be on the board and the mana total will prevent a combo on the same turn.
I hate this kind of card. Blizzard is talking about how they dont want people to combo you down from their hand. Then they release anyfin then this shit. Just a miserable experience to play against such things. If your opponent has the combo he just kills you turn 10. Nothing you can do really except maybe kill them before that or hope their draw sucks.
A legendary minion that is so expensive and requires most of the deck to be built around him needs to be strong in order to make a difference and not end up in the trash can. Plus, the damage is randomly distributed. With the same logic, at least one of the spells obtained from Rafaam should automatically give you the win - which of course is not true. It's not a case of charging treants, murlocs, patrons, Shadowstepped Leeroys etc. Plus, there are certain requirements that must be met for a C'Thun deck to work, providing weaknesses as well (for example, playing his buffing minions instead of the optimal ones that you would otherwise play).
I think you're underestimating that battlecry. It's going to be like 20-20 deal 20 damage split randomly twice.
(a) 20 looks like a number that's way too high and optimistic at the moment, at least according to the cards we've seen and according to some sort of balance you need to keep in a C'Thun deck (you can't ONLY play buffing minions and you can't rely on Brann living for more than one turn). (b) Why twice? That's only with Brann on the board, and every player who sees an instantly indentifiable C'Thun deck will reserve instant removal for Brann, so he won't be on the board and the mana total will prevent a combo on the same turn.
Thaurissan is an instant removal magnet and his discount usually only works for the one round he lives. That can be ok for C'Thun + Gang Up (total mana=9+1), but relies on having both cards in your hand with Thaurissan (lots of "ifs" are starting to accumulate, and you'll have to add the "if" of surviving at that late stage with such a huge hand to perform these gimmicks). Shadowstep can work on the same turn, yes.
How do you suggest using Innervate and/or Naga for double battlecry?
Thaurissan is an instant removal magnet and his discount usually only works for the one round he lives. That can be ok for C'Thun + Gang Up (total mana=9+1), but relies on having both cards in your hand with Thaurissan (lots of "ifs" are starting to accumulate, and you'll have to add the "if" of surviving at that late stage with such a huge hand to perform these gimmicks). Shadowstep can work on the same turn, yes.
How do you suggest using Innervate and/or Naga for double battlecry?
Naga, hope it survives a turn, next turn brann + C'thun. You will have to control the board and play out Naga when they have no board and hopefully have used up their removal. Obviously there are a lot of if's regardless of the line of play. But the key here is there are a number of them, with hopes that one of them work out. That being said the battlecry is strong enough on it's own that one trigger of it can be enough, in reality that is what the deck should be designed around.
Thaurissan is an instant removal magnet and his discount usually only works for the one round he lives. That can be ok for C'Thun + Gang Up (total mana=9+1), but relies on having both cards in your hand with Thaurissan (lots of "ifs" are starting to accumulate, and you'll have to add the "if" of surviving at that late stage with such a huge hand to perform these gimmicks). Shadowstep can work on the same turn, yes.
How do you suggest using Innervate and/or Naga for double battlecry?
Play Brann anytime (hopefully with the 2 mana battlecry cthun booster), shadowstep it then you need to discount either Brann or cthun for the Brann+cthun combo.
You gang up and/or bounce your cthun boosters to get up to 20+ damage if need be. You can also master of disguise your guy that boosts at the end of every turn (tho that does seem too slow).
As for Innervate. Discount either Brann or cthun then Innervate+Bran+cthun.
Most of these decks need to cycle through most of your deck and survive, but combos have been known to work out.
so you play Naga See Witch, and how do you plan to do brann + C'Thun the next turn(6mana) when every card costs 5?! play inervate, congratulations, you just dumped 3 mana into nothing, so you've got 3 left, so what now? hero power pass most likely, since, as i said, every card costs 5. great plan
uh, I am referring to turn ten....pretty much all the combos outside of double innervate are turn ten. So instead of responding with sassy sarcasm I will say sorry for not clarifying this.
Thaurissan is an instant removal magnet and his discount usually only works for the one round he lives. That can be ok for C'Thun + Gang Up (total mana=9+1), but relies on having both cards in your hand with Thaurissan (lots of "ifs" are starting to accumulate, and you'll have to add the "if" of surviving at that late stage with such a huge hand to perform these gimmicks). Shadowstep can work on the same turn, yes.
How do you suggest using Innervate and/or Naga for double battlecry?
Play Brann anytime (hopefully with the 2 mana battlecry cthun booster), shadowstep it then you need to discount either Brann or cthun for the Brann+cthun combo.
You gang up and/or bounce your cthun boosters to get up to 20+ damage if need be. You can also master of disguise your guy that boosts at the end of every turn (tho that does seem too slow).
As for Innervate. Discount either Brann or cthun then Innervate+Bran+cthun.
Most of these decks need to cycle through most of your deck and survive, but combos have been known to work out.
As I said, both Brann + Thaurissan are instant removal magnets, especially when the opponents see it's an instantly identifiable C'Thun deck. Brann+C'Thun have a total of 13 mana, so that means having both in hand and leaving Thaurissan unidisturbed to do his thing for at least 3 turns. If a player is unable to remove Thaurissan for 3 (!!!) turns, it's almost certain he's dead anyway irrelevant of the deck that he's being played in, and you don't need to guess the future metas for this - it has already been happening for ages.
How will you innervate Brann + C'Thun? At turn 10? With 2 plus mana when they cost 13? That's only feasible with Thaurissan, assuming all of the needed cards are again in your hand. Not impossible, but again plenty of "ifs" that hurt greatly the consistency and efficiency of the deck, especially when you decide to sit and wait for all the combo pieces (even worse plus 2x Innervate) without having the proper tools to stall, like for example a freeze mage.
Naga is also an instant removal magnet, too slow and also gimmicky, as shown in the decks that people have been trying to squeeze her in. I invite you to try them & see for youself. Aviana might be a better option (and one of my constant efforts to make decks out of), but she's also relying on Innervate and/or Thaurissan for the "double battlecry" thing you are trying to describe.
Ideas are fine, but you have to understand that theorycraft with magnificent ideas (based on lots of "ifs") that later go down the drain has been going on for ages. Take for example the waves of people dreaming OP decks with Dreadsteeds and Anima Golems plus Kel Thuzad. I hope you know how these ideas actually worked out...
so you play Naga See Witch, and how do you plan to do brann + C'Thun the next turn(6mana) when every card costs 5?! play inervate, congratulations, you just dumped 3 mana into nothing, so you've got 3 left, so what now? hero power pass most likely, since, as i said, every card costs 5. great plan
uh, I am referring to turn ten....pretty much all the combos outside of double innervate are turn ten. So instead of responding with sassy sarcasm I will say sorry for not clarifying this.
well, then i'm sorry myself for beeing... well... sassy sarcastic :D so you want to play see witch on turn 9 and pray it survives? uh, bold assumption. most likely not happening. but, maybe in rogue. naga + Master of disguise(10 mana) and then the following turn brann + C'Thun(10 mana). are you willing to run MoD just for that? hm...
Well the hope is that with the excellent on curve stats of the C'thun Minions that I am forcing removal out of hand leading up to Turn 9. I might look at a turn 9 Naga Sea Witch -> Coin -> Conceal perhaps? Honestly the number of times anyone is going to get to Brann + C'Thun is going to be very very rare and in most cases relies on the unlikely scenario of some enabler living a turn longer than it normally will. Like Naga Sea Witch or Summoning Portal or Thaurissian. In all other cases it'll require a very good hand like Aviana, Brann, C'Thun Innervate.
It's not so much that I believe that this is easy to do, just that is possible, even probable and will almost certainly happen, just not often. I may play MoD because of other reasons. I wouldn't hold Brann for a chance at C'thun necessarily but stealthing him, then leaving him there while I play out other cultists is real good though it may be too much of a tempo loss to try.
What I am saying is that it's possible, just not likely. You don't build your deck around it. Brann will likely be used to empower the class cards that are better when C'thun is big enough.
Thaurissan is an instant removal magnet and his discount usually only works for the one round he lives. That can be ok for C'Thun + Gang Up (total mana=9+1), but relies on having both cards in your hand with Thaurissan (lots of "ifs" are starting to accumulate, and you'll have to add the "if" of surviving at that late stage with such a huge hand to perform these gimmicks). Shadowstep can work on the same turn, yes.
How do you suggest using Innervate and/or Naga for double battlecry?
Play Brann anytime (hopefully with the 2 mana battlecry cthun booster), shadowstep it then you need to discount either Brann or cthun for the Brann+cthun combo.
You gang up and/or bounce your cthun boosters to get up to 20+ damage if need be. You can also master of disguise your guy that boosts at the end of every turn (tho that does seem too slow).
As for Innervate. Discount either Brann or cthun then Innervate+Bran+cthun.
Most of these decks need to cycle through most of your deck and survive, but combos have been known to work out.
As I said, both Brann + Thaurissan are instant removal magnets, especially when the opponents see it's an instantly identifiable C'Thun deck. Brann+C'Thun have a total of 13 mana, so that means having both in hand and leaving Thaurissan unidisturbed to do his thing for at least 3 turns. If a player is unable to remove Thaurissan for 3 (!!!) turns, it's almost certain he's dead anyway irrelevant of the deck that he's being played in, and you don't need to guess the future metas for this - it has already been happening for ages.
How will you innervate Brann + C'Thun? At turn 10? With 2 plus mana when they cost 13? That's only feasible with Thaurissan, assuming all of the needed cards are again in your hand. Not impossible, but again plenty of "ifs" that hurt greatly the consistency and efficiency of the deck, especially when you decide to sit and wait for all the combo pieces (even worse plus 2x Innervate) without having the proper tools to stall, like for example a freeze mage.
Naga is also an instant removal magnet, too slow and also gimmicky, as shown in the decks that people have been trying to squeeze her in. I invite you to try them & see for youself. Aviana might be a better option (and one of my constant efforts to make decks out of), but she's also relying on Innervate and/or Thaurissan for the "double battlecry" thing you are trying to describe.
Ideas are fine, but you have to understand that theorycraft with magnificent ideas (based on lots of "ifs") that later go down the drain has been going on for ages. Take for example the waves of people dreaming OP decks with Dreadsteeds and Anima Golems plus Kel Thuzad. I hope you know how these ideas actually worked out...
I don't disagree with you. The Brann C'thun combo is difficult to pull off no matter what. I personally am not arguing that, but you didn't at all counter the scenario that you replied to. Brann + shadow step. Then one tick of thaurissan on either empowers the turn 10 brann + C'thun. I realize Naga Sea With is gimmicky and difficult to pull off, just pointing out it's another way of achieving the goal, regardless of how unlikely.
I don't think C'Thun is broken because it already has a counter. Hogger Doom of Elywin summons a 2/2 taunt everytime it takes damage. Imagine a 20/20 C'Thun randomly spewing missiles everywhere and Hogger would completely negate him. Plus if you double Hoggers health...... RIP C'Thun.
I don't think C'Thun is broken because it already has a counter. Hogger Doom of Elywin summons a 2/2 taunt everytime it takes damage. Imagine a 20/20 C'Thun randomly spewing missiles everywhere and Hogger would completely negate him. Plus if you double Hoggers health...... RIP C'Thun.
So just kill Hogger before you play C'thun? Not a very reliable counter :P
I don't think C'Thun is broken because it already has a counter. Hogger Doom of Elywin summons a 2/2 taunt everytime it takes damage. Imagine a 20/20 C'Thun randomly spewing missiles everywhere and Hogger would completely negate him. Plus if you double Hoggers health...... RIP C'Thun.
So just kill Hogger before you play C'thun? Not a very reliable counter :P
You aren't wrong, but since C'thun is so expensive you can't do both. It still buys you a turn at least.
Hogger though isn't the only one who can do this, Patron also achieve the same goal, is cheaper and you can have two in the deck. Though I would love to see a situation where a 20/20 C'thun comes down, ignores all minions and just pings face lol. Pretty impossible but would be hilarious to see.
You aren't wrong, but since C'thun is so expensive you can't do both. It still buys you a turn at least.
Hogger though isn't the only one who can do this, Patron also achieve the same goal, is cheaper and you can have two in the deck. Though I would love to see a situation where a 20/20 C'thun comes down, ignores all minions and just pings face lol. Pretty impossible but would be hilarious to see.
Right, so you're going to keep Hogger in your hand till turn 10, assuming they even play C'thun on that turn or if they have drawn it rather than play it on curve where most of the time it will be more useful for trading/keeping board?
And I completely agree! But, keep in mind, that's one of the cards that keeps C'thun in Check. Escecially if you are going to play more control rogue (I'm so looking forward to it.) where you shadow step the C'thun and who knows how that's going to work?!?!
But again, I'm in agreement. Reno is one of the many way to counter a C'thun,
what will happen if you return C'thun to your hand and after he was by cultists and replay him? does he retain his buffs?
what if was also buffed by a 'normal' buff (like blessing of kings)? what he was silenced?
Thaurissan is an instant removal magnet and his discount usually only works for the one round he lives. That can be ok for C'Thun + Gang Up (total mana=9+1), but relies on having both cards in your hand with Thaurissan (lots of "ifs" are starting to accumulate, and you'll have to add the "if" of surviving at that late stage with such a huge hand to perform these gimmicks). Shadowstep can work on the same turn, yes.
How do you suggest using Innervate and/or Naga for double battlecry?
If Cthun gets put back in your hand, presumably it reverts to being a 6/6 like any normal minion would.
Or is an exception made so that it keeps the bonuses it got from all the cultist minions?
How will you innervate Brann + C'Thun? At turn 10? With 2 plus mana when they cost 13? That's only feasible with Thaurissan, assuming all of the needed cards are again in your hand. Not impossible, but again plenty of "ifs" that hurt greatly the consistency and efficiency of the deck, especially when you decide to sit and wait for all the combo pieces (even worse plus 2x Innervate) without having the proper tools to stall, like for example a freeze mage.
Naga is also an instant removal magnet, too slow and also gimmicky, as shown in the decks that people have been trying to squeeze her in. I invite you to try them & see for youself. Aviana might be a better option (and one of my constant efforts to make decks out of), but she's also relying on Innervate and/or Thaurissan for the "double battlecry" thing you are trying to describe.
Ideas are fine, but you have to understand that theorycraft with magnificent ideas (based on lots of "ifs") that later go down the drain has been going on for ages. Take for example the waves of people dreaming OP decks with Dreadsteeds and Anima Golems plus Kel Thuzad. I hope you know how these ideas actually worked out...
I don't think C'Thun is broken because it already has a counter. Hogger Doom of Elywin summons a 2/2 taunt everytime it takes damage. Imagine a 20/20 C'Thun randomly spewing missiles everywhere and Hogger would completely negate him. Plus if you double Hoggers health...... RIP C'Thun.