I really don't get the "OMG Wild Mode will be batshit broken" whining that has taken over the Internet. Everyone, calm the fuck down. Now.
Wild mode will be exactly like the Hearthstone you currently play, just with a bigger card pool. There are a bit under 750 cards now. Every year, up to 250 cards will get added to that pool. Standard will stay around 750 cards, but by the end of 2018, Wild will be somewhere near twice the size at 1500 cards. Those are simple facts.
However, there are a few factors that keep the crazy in check:
- Your deck can only ever include 30 cards. So really, all you need to be competitive is 30 cards in your collection, as long as those 30 cards form a tier 1 deck. Now, you may want more cards because a big collection is fun, but to climb to top 1 legend, 30 cards is what you need.
- No matter how many cards there are, no matter the format, there will always be stronger and weaker decks. Standard will have a Top 20 of competitive decks, Wild will have a Top 20 of competitive decks. Hell, each tavern brawl will have its own collection of Top 20 decks.
- That ranking is relative. The Wild decks will be stronger in comparison to standard, because they draw from a bigger card pool, but they will not be stronger in comparison to each other.
- As with any MtG-like TCG, there will still be a balance of Aggro, Midrange, Control and Combo. There will be no single dominant deck in Wild. Because of the above, every deck will have a natural counter.
- Even if there is a batshit broken combo that ruins standard, this will be less relevant in wild, because (1) the bigger card pool will mean more options to counter that combo. The combo will also have to be more batshit broken to dominate Wild because it will have to beat stronger decks. A deck that has a good win rate against Secret Pally, Midrange Druid and Zoo as they are now is likely to be strong and adaptable enough to compete with most Wild meta decks for the next two years.
- Dimnishing marginal returns. The more cards there already are, the more likely a new card will just replicate something that another card already does. The effect of every new expansion will be like Naxx for Standard (big impact), but like TGT for Wild (half a dozen relevant cards). Because cards get dumped into a smaller pool for standard, they are quite likely to shake up the meta, whereas in Wild, they need to really create a new devastating synergy or combo to really shake things up. More likely, Wild will be pretty stable, with only a small fraction of each new expansion earning a permanent spot in the meta. The difference will be small at first, but it will get more noticeable as the Wild card pool grows.
If you are reading this right now, most likely Wild is the mode for you. Why? Because you have been playing Hearthstone (more or less) from the start, and you have the relevant Naxx and GvG cards. As the game progresses, you'll keep up with your collection so you'll always have enough cards to compete in Wild.
So if Wild is so great, what's standard for? Two groups.
- The Top 100 competitive players. Those who care about Blizzcon points. You think you can be the next Firebat? Play the hell out of standard. For e-sports, it makes sense to have a smaller, controlled card pool, because it's easier on casual viewers, commentators, and the players themselves. It will also naturally rotate out cards that turned out to be too "e-sports" for e-sports. Expect fewer cards like Ram Wrangler going forward.
- New players. You may not notice it, but games like Hearthstone have a huge player turnover. A new player who starts in 2016 will only have to collect the smaller card pool that is relevant for current standard. This is important. If HS doesn't have a mechanism like that, it will slowly bleed out as older players leave and new players get overwhelmed and stop. Having a standard ladder is a good thing. It just doesn't have to be relevant to you.
This is not true because it is only a matter of time when more and more players will stop playing Wild format.
Allow me to elaborate:
First of all. Wild format will exist but it won't. What Blizzard is doing is shifting focus towards the new model by making it offical format in Hearthstone tournaments. This will result in numerous proffesional players concentrating on Standard format and by doing so, influencing other players to do as well.
By expanding the card pool of a Wild format, Blizzard devs will no longer care or try to keep it in balance (there is a reason why it is called 'Wild'). By not doing so, the format will become unexciting and frustrating.
This change will make the game more accessabille to new players but with removing the options to buy Naxxramas and GvG new players will be encouraged to play only Standard mode and therefore won't have the need to craft cards from previous expansions.
As a result of this, Wild format will only by upheld by long term Hearthstone players who decide not to 'shift' to the Standard format. In time, Wild format will become what is today known as casual and will have less and less players till it finally ceases to exist and they just give you achievment in form of 100 gold for collecting cards from previous collections or something. Kappa
- That ranking is relative. The Wild decks will be stronger in comparison to standard, because they draw from a bigger card pool, but they will not be stronger in comparison to each other.
- As with any MtG-like TCG, there will still be a balance of Aggro, Midrange, Control and Combo. There will be no single dominant deck in Wild. Because of the above, every deck will have a natural counter.
Where exactly is Hearthstone's natural counter to hand-based OTK combos? Your options are basically Loatheb, Armor Up, Ice Block, and kill them fast. HS is averse to enemy hand-interaction and enemy-turn interaction so there aren't many answers other than aggro, and even then many OTK decks could fit the tools to stall the creature rush effectively. We've seen multiple nerfs (Freeze, Charge, UtH/Buzzard, Miracle, Patron) because such cards have gotten out of hand in the absence of counters; and this is when they've carefully designed the sets to try and avoid such strategies and take into account the full card pool. Imagine what will happen when they don't even try to balance it, that is the concern.
Of course Blizzard COULD build Wild so that deck archetypes are relatively balanced against each other; but its not clear that they will, and there is no guarantee it will happen naturally by itself.
This is not true because it is only a matter of time when more and more players will stop playing Wild format.
And they will be replaced by a smaller group of heavily invested newbies who have collected all their standard decks and now want to craft some older cards to enjoy wonky decks. Sure, initially there will be around 50% of players in wild and the number will go down to maybe 10% in a few years. 10% of over a million is enough to keep it afloat.
As for "Blizz won't care" / "Blizz won't balance" ... did you read my post? Did I write anywhere that it's necessary to spend extra effort balancing that mode? I didn't. Wild mode will balance itself.
This is not true because it is only a matter of time when more and more players will stop playing Wild format.
Allow me to elaborate:
First of all. Wild format will exist but it won't. What Blizzard is doing is shifting focus towards the new model by making it offical format in Hearthstone tournaments. This will result in numerous proffesional players concentrating on Standard format and by doing so, influencing other players to do as well.
By expanding the card pool of a Wild format, Blizzard devs will no longer care or try to keep it in balance (there is a reason why it is called 'Wild'). By not doing so, the format will become unexciting and frustrating.
This change will make the game more accessabille to new players but with removing the options to buy Naxxramas and GvG new players will be encouraged to play only Standard mode and therefore won't have the need to craft cards from previous expansions.
As a result of this, Wild format will only by upheld by long term Hearthstone players who decide not to 'shift' to the Standard format. In time, Wild format will become what is today known as casual and will have less and less players till it finally ceases to exist and they just give you achievment in form of 100 gold for collecting cards from previous collections or something. Kappa
I was thinking the same yesterday but something strikes me suddenly when I was going to write a post.
As a new player, someone will jump into Standard for sure because it is kinda more official mode. However, as time passes, new player will become old players and some of their cards could only be used in Wild Mode. Thus these players will play Wild occasionally and replenish the pool.
I don't suppose Wild Mode to be very balance but for both new/old players, that doesn't matter. The reason is, almost no one will exclusively stick to Wild Mode and if your rank in friend list is reflected by how well you do in Standard Mode, I doubt many players will care climbing the ladder in Wild Mode.
Yes, you are right, Wild Mode will become more or less like a casual mode. However, as there is also ladder in Wild Mode, I think it's good that people can play it without much ladder anxiety because it is not the main ladder. Thinking in this way, Hearthstone would be more fun, isn't it?
All I know is that I'll be able to keep playing Hearthstone the way I'm doing right now in Wild, and in Standard I'll have a place where I don't need to worry about Innervate-Shredder -> I kill it -> pops Milhouse. Fuck GvG.
That's not how it has worked out in other games, but if Blizzard does do some balancing from time to time for wild then it certainly could be that way.
honestly i just want to be able to buy the older content like GvG packs, even if i know that i won't be able to use them in standard. Because i spent almost all my gold/dust buying Classic and was just to start switching over GvG since im missing alot of the good rare, and epic and a few legendary. I'm the play who likes build gimmey deck play them for a day or two then moves on. And the fact that now i can't buy them for gold or even money piss me off since it will now take me forever to build up the GvG now.
Look im fine with standard i thought it was a cool idea/ great for newer player, Until i heard you're unable to buy older content. That all this really pissing me off.
Also second thing is when my friend start playing i told him to buy naxx since that was the best way to power up his deck, for the cheapest amount of gold since you were guarantee what you were getting each wings. he been working for at least 3 months getting the wings (does not play that often as i do) now i have to tell it was a waste.
I think wild will be fine as the meta in standard will be much smaller. You are going to see the same decks over and over just like in rank now. It seems to me standard will be a boring grind for many.
Because i spent almost all my gold/dust buying Classic and was just to start switching over GvG
In my initial post, I wrote: Wild is the mode for you. Why? Because you have been playing Hearthstone (more or less) from the start, and you have the relevant Naxx and GvG cards.
Now, reversing that, if you don't have any GvG cards yet, don't start. Play standard. It's really that simple. You are just simply not the target audience for wild mode.
Because i spent almost all my gold/dust buying Classic and was just to start switching over GvG
In my initial post, I wrote: Wild is the mode for you. Why? Because you have been playing Hearthstone (more or less) from the start, and you have the relevant Naxx and GvG cards.
Now, reversing that, if you don't have any GvG cards yet, don't start. Play standard. It's really that simple. You are just simply not the target audience for wild mode.
Your posts are making too much sense. We need to generate drama, to increase the view count for youtubers, streamers etc.
I really don't get the "OMG Wild Mode will be batshit broken" whining that has taken over the Internet. Everyone, calm the fuck down. Now.
Wild mode will be exactly like the Hearthstone you currently play, just with a bigger card pool. There are a bit under 750 cards now. Every year, up to 250 cards will get added to that pool. Standard will stay around 750 cards, but by the end of 2018, Wild will be somewhere near twice the size at 1500 cards. Those are simple facts.
However, there are a few factors that keep the crazy in check:
- Your deck can only ever include 30 cards. So really, all you need to be competitive is 30 cards in your collection, as long as those 30 cards form a tier 1 deck. Now, you may want more cards because a big collection is fun, but to climb to top 1 legend, 30 cards is what you need.
- No matter how many cards there are, no matter the format, there will always be stronger and weaker decks. Standard will have a Top 20 of competitive decks, Wild will have a Top 20 of competitive decks. Hell, each tavern brawl will have its own collection of Top 20 decks.
- That ranking is relative. The Wild decks will be stronger in comparison to standard, because they draw from a bigger card pool, but they will not be stronger in comparison to each other.
- As with any MtG-like TCG, there will still be a balance of Aggro, Midrange, Control and Combo. There will be no single dominant deck in Wild. Because of the above, every deck will have a natural counter.
- Even if there is a batshit broken combo that ruins standard, this will be less relevant in wild, because (1) the bigger card pool will mean more options to counter that combo. The combo will also have to be more batshit broken to dominate Wild because it will have to beat stronger decks. A deck that has a good win rate against Secret Pally, Midrange Druid and Zoo as they are now is likely to be strong and adaptable enough to compete with most Wild meta decks for the next two years.
- Dimnishing marginal returns. The more cards there already are, the more likely a new card will just replicate something that another card already does. The effect of every new expansion will be like Naxx for Standard (big impact), but like TGT for Wild (half a dozen relevant cards). Because cards get dumped into a smaller pool for standard, they are quite likely to shake up the meta, whereas in Wild, they need to really create a new devastating synergy or combo to really shake things up. More likely, Wild will be pretty stable, with only a small fraction of each new expansion earning a permanent spot in the meta. The difference will be small at first, but it will get more noticeable as the Wild card pool grows.
If you are reading this right now, most likely Wild is the mode for you. Why? Because you have been playing Hearthstone (more or less) from the start, and you have the relevant Naxx and GvG cards. As the game progresses, you'll keep up with your collection so you'll always have enough cards to compete in Wild.
So if Wild is so great, what's standard for? Two groups.
- The Top 100 competitive players. Those who care about Blizzcon points. You think you can be the next Firebat? Play the hell out of standard. For e-sports, it makes sense to have a smaller, controlled card pool, because it's easier on casual viewers, commentators, and the players themselves. It will also naturally rotate out cards that turned out to be too "e-sports" for e-sports. Expect fewer cards like Ram Wrangler going forward.
- New players. You may not notice it, but games like Hearthstone have a huge player turnover. A new player who starts in 2016 will only have to collect the smaller card pool that is relevant for current standard. This is important. If HS doesn't have a mechanism like that, it will slowly bleed out as older players leave and new players get overwhelmed and stop. Having a standard ladder is a good thing. It just doesn't have to be relevant to you.
This is the post I've been waiting for.
Good on you sir.
Nothing else to add.
This is not true because it is only a matter of time when more and more players will stop playing Wild format.
Allow me to elaborate:
First of all. Wild format will exist but it won't. What Blizzard is doing is shifting focus towards the new model by making it offical format in Hearthstone tournaments. This will result in numerous proffesional players concentrating on Standard format and by doing so, influencing other players to do as well.
By expanding the card pool of a Wild format, Blizzard devs will no longer care or try to keep it in balance (there is a reason why it is called 'Wild'). By not doing so, the format will become unexciting and frustrating.
This change will make the game more accessabille to new players but with removing the options to buy Naxxramas and GvG new players will be encouraged to play only Standard mode and therefore won't have the need to craft cards from previous expansions.
As a result of this, Wild format will only by upheld by long term Hearthstone players who decide not to 'shift' to the Standard format. In time, Wild format will become what is today known as casual and will have less and less players till it finally ceases to exist and they just give you achievment in form of 100 gold for collecting cards from previous collections or something. Kappa
I am not a morning person.
All I know is that I'll be able to keep playing Hearthstone the way I'm doing right now in Wild, and in Standard I'll have a place where I don't need to worry about Innervate-Shredder -> I kill it -> pops Milhouse. Fuck GvG.
That's not how it has worked out in other games, but if Blizzard does do some balancing from time to time for wild then it certainly could be that way.
honestly i just want to be able to buy the older content like GvG packs, even if i know that i won't be able to use them in standard. Because i spent almost all my gold/dust buying Classic and was just to start switching over GvG since im missing alot of the good rare, and epic and a few legendary. I'm the play who likes build gimmey deck play them for a day or two then moves on. And the fact that now i can't buy them for gold or even money piss me off since it will now take me forever to build up the GvG now.
Look im fine with standard i thought it was a cool idea/ great for newer player, Until i heard you're unable to buy older content. That all this really pissing me off.
Also second thing is when my friend start playing i told him to buy naxx since that was the best way to power up his deck, for the cheapest amount of gold since you were guarantee what you were getting each wings. he been working for at least 3 months getting the wings (does not play that often as i do) now i have to tell it was a waste.
I think wild will be fine as the meta in standard will be much smaller. You are going to see the same decks over and over just like in rank now. It seems to me standard will be a boring grind for many.
Don't feel like playing the same guy 3 times in a row, and that's the direction Wild is heading.
Then again I much prefer the standard format anyways.