okay i just hit legend with handlock last night. here's my list: good winrate against hunters although the sample size is small. 5 wins 1 loss against hunter hard wins :D
I have done ok, but the zoos keep getting better, and now they beat me! The big problem is that they add owls, and mulligan for them, which takes away a lot of value from my drakes. Even Ancient watcher they clear away, so there is no way for lifesaving shaddowflames or big taunts.
I might go back to 2x hellfire if this continues, but even those are weaker with eggs around.
If a ZooLock waste his owl for a Drake most of the times the Taunted Giants will stick to the board.Yes i think with that meta 2 hellfire over SF is better.Pro players use them at tours where is no aggro.Also,the last days i am trying with some succecss the Arcane Golem+PO+Faceless combo.it helps a lot
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Famous last words, Mind if i roll Weed? Weed Hoarder, Azeroth
I like the idea of having both alex and jeraxxus as in superbands deck. That heal up to 15hp is often what wins you the hunter games. Since you cant really afford to tap those games it is good to have either card in hand at T9.
I have even kept jeraxxus a few times in starting hand when other cards was good vs hunter to be sure I could play him on T9. This would not be needed with 2x 15hp resets in deck.
Not to mention alex is a solid card in other matchups too.
I would miss soulfire though, not sure if that is the card I would replce. Maybe take out one siphon or something...
U need two shadowflame cause the games you play where you really need a sflame in hand but don't have one you will want to punch yourself and then cry for not running two. Trust me. You need two.
Also.. What do you cut in order to run both jaraxus and alex? A mortal coil maybe?
Owl wasted on a drake?? That is super value in my book, preventing it being taunted next turn or a big shaddowflame if they overextend.
Also, killing 1 taunted giant is not that hard using soulfire. Good zoo players will not make you go double molten + sunfury...
2x shaddowflame is good in mirrors among others, but 3 aoes is way too much vs decks like rogue and warrior....
U need two shadowflame cause the games you play where you really need a sflame in hand but don't have one you will want to punch yourself and then cry for not running two. Trust me. You need two.
I like the idea of having both alex and jeraxxus as in superbands deck. That heal up to 15hp is often what wins you the hunter games. Since you cant really afford to tap those games it is good to have either card in hand at T9.
I have even kept jeraxxus a few times in starting hand when other cards was good vs hunter to be sure I could play him on T9. This would not be needed with 2x 15hp resets in deck.
Not to mention alex is a solid card in other matchups too.
I would miss soulfire though, not sure if that is the card I would replce. Maybe take out one siphon or something...
A mortal coil most likely.. Big-time negative to cutting a siphon or shadowflame. (veteran handlock player here, like long time vet). Even cutting the one hellfire out of the deck would be better than siphon imo.
Also, @ the other dudes post above.. running two hellfires isn't really worth it. Its not a card that really wins you the game vs zoo. Its more about shadowflame and taunting moltens, and hitting solid soulfires on their big'ish minions like dark iron, etc. (to limit their trade capabilities).
I've honestly considered just cutting out Hellfire completely... Haven't really seen much use from it... Honestly, the most use its done for me is give me lethal a few times when I wouldn't have had it, lol. And with running just one, you never seem to have it when you need it vs a flooded board. (and running two isn't nearly worth it enough). So whats the answer? Run zero!
I'm actually really considering cutting the hellfire for that Alexstraza so I can have that with Jaraxxus.
And just imagine the rage that would commence from your opponent after you Jaraxxus'ing back to 15hp, then Alex'ing a turn or two later. rofllll.
Viable cards if you want to cut the one hellfire from the deck, or cut a mortal coil:
- Ragnaros
- BGH
- Black knight (The feelz you get when you black knight a highmane an annoying #%#$#% hunter has houndmastered are nice, quite nice; since you can't always count on having an owl at that time). I tend to like to use them early on cards like mad scientist anyways.
- Alexstraza (while also playing with Jaraxxus).
- Power overwhelming
- Sylvanus or Cairne (shadowflame on either of these can be sexy).
Overall though the best choices would probably be TBK, Alex, or BGH.
Hellfire is amazing vs shaman though, really like a 3rd aoe there, but otherwise I agree that it is a weak card. Guess it is quite meta dependent. My reasoning for cutting a siphon is that it feels slow in current meta. Sure, it is great vs mirror or warrior. But otherwise it loses you tempo, and in a sense alex in a way do the same thing, i.e. heal if needed and improves you board.
But will try cutting hellfire, unfortunately not much time to play lately.
Guys I really like play handlock and at my rank 9 i am not facing too much hunters so its ok. But i am having too much troubles with zoo.. even with good starting hands with early ancients and taunts hellfires...
Im running a deck very similar to barrendaberg but with 1 mortal coil less and a senjin instead.
I feel for you, BobHughes, I also encountered a swarm of hunters and zoo with owls at rank 8, so I had to swich to my anti zoo/hunter-mage and got to rank 7.
The sad truth for handlocks is that it is not that hard to counter. If there are too many of us, the number of counter cards/decks seem to explode!
General rule is to always keep molten vs Warlock on ladder (assume zoo), do not ever mulligan it. I haven't lost to a zoo lock yet this season playing handlock. (or on the contrary, if you don't have it, mulligan for it).
And yes, the one match-up where not having a hellfire sort of sucks is vs Shaman.
Hellfire is also awful against Priest, Druid and Warrior.
Against Aggressive or minion-based decks without reach (Zoo, Druid, Deathrattle Priest, Shockadin, etc.) you don't need to get on the board right away. I would rather turn 2 tap, turn 3/4 Earthen Ring/coin Drake, turn 4/5 Watcher Sunfury than turn 1/2 Watcher/Coin Watcher turn 2/3 Sunfury or silence it. Setting up giant taunt walls EVENTUALLY (eg before you are in lethal range, like 6-13 depending on the opponent) is what matters, not setting up as fast as possible. I see a lot of people make this mistake and run out of answers in the midgame when their fragile early board-control attempts falter.
Also, against non-aggressive decks you should try to avoid taunting giants, as it exposes them to attacks and The Black Knight. As strange as it sounds, you want to protect your 8/8's with taunts like Sludge Belcher or taunted Drakes, Watchers, and Earthen Ring Farseers so that they can kill the opponent. Against aggro you need as much taunt HP as possible and can't afford to taunt lower health guys, though.
Also, I don't see how you're having so much trouble against zoo as handlock, maybe you're tapping too much early instead of just playing shit? I just lost to a zoo lock earlier today in a game where I literally did not draw a single sunfry/argus, no shadowflames, and no hellfire; and the only reason they won was because they fucking tapped into a soulfire after playing doomguard turn 8 or 9 (I was at 3hp after he attacked me w/ the doomguard). rofl. I had jaraxxus next turn and was able to kill the doomguard np. He had 0 cards left and was all-in at that point. Literally came down to him pulling a 1 out of 15 tap to win, when I drew like absolute shit (no board clears all game, and the dude had a fast start/strong starting hand also).. Considering that, you shouldn't really be having much trouble? yes? :P
Thanks man.
still not getting legend with handlock in na. just too much hunters around.
Good luck handlock! GG! Kappa
okay i just hit legend with handlock last night. here's my list: good winrate against hunters although the sample size is small. 5 wins 1 loss against hunter hard wins :D
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/114811-legend-s7-no-to-soulfire-handlock
I have done ok, but the zoos keep getting better, and now they beat me! The big problem is that they add owls, and mulligan for them, which takes away a lot of value from my drakes. Even Ancient watcher they clear away, so there is no way for lifesaving shaddowflames or big taunts.
I might go back to 2x hellfire if this continues, but even those are weaker with eggs around.
Any solution to this, fellow handlockers?
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
If a ZooLock waste his owl for a Drake most of the times the Taunted Giants will stick to the board.Yes i think with that meta 2 hellfire over SF is better.Pro players use them at tours where is no aggro.Also,the last days i am trying with some succecss the Arcane Golem+PO+Faceless combo.it helps a lot
Famous last words, Mind if i roll Weed? Weed Hoarder, Azeroth
My decks: please, take a look if you want- a lot of dust-free decks-feedback more than welcome
http://www.hearthpwn.com/members/akasumi/decks?sort=-viewcount
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have you tried out my handlock variant? it uses 2 hellfires and shadowflames. very good against aggro decks.
here's the link: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/114811-legend-s7-no-to-soulfire-handlock
Owl wasted on a drake?? That is super value in my book, preventing it being taunted next turn or a big shaddowflame if they overextend.
Also, killing 1 taunted giant is not that hard using soulfire. Good zoo players will not make you go double molten + sunfury...
2x shaddowflame is good in mirrors among others, but 3 aoes is way too much vs decks like rogue and warrior....
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
I like the idea of having both alex and jeraxxus as in superbands deck. That heal up to 15hp is often what wins you the hunter games. Since you cant really afford to tap those games it is good to have either card in hand at T9.
I have even kept jeraxxus a few times in starting hand when other cards was good vs hunter to be sure I could play him on T9. This would not be needed with 2x 15hp resets in deck.
Not to mention alex is a solid card in other matchups too.
I would miss soulfire though, not sure if that is the card I would replce. Maybe take out one siphon or something...
U need two shadowflame cause the games you play where you really need a sflame in hand but don't have one you will want to punch yourself and then cry for not running two. Trust me. You need two.
Also.. What do you cut in order to run both jaraxus and alex? A mortal coil maybe?
U need two shadowflame cause the games you play where you really need a sflame in hand but don't have one you will want to punch yourself and then cry for not running two. Trust me. You need two.
A mortal coil most likely.. Big-time negative to cutting a siphon or shadowflame. (veteran handlock player here, like long time vet). Even cutting the one hellfire out of the deck would be better than siphon imo.
Also, @ the other dudes post above.. running two hellfires isn't really worth it. Its not a card that really wins you the game vs zoo. Its more about shadowflame and taunting moltens, and hitting solid soulfires on their big'ish minions like dark iron, etc. (to limit their trade capabilities).
I've honestly considered just cutting out Hellfire completely... Haven't really seen much use from it... Honestly, the most use its done for me is give me lethal a few times when I wouldn't have had it, lol. And with running just one, you never seem to have it when you need it vs a flooded board. (and running two isn't nearly worth it enough). So whats the answer? Run zero!
I'm actually really considering cutting the hellfire for that Alexstraza so I can have that with Jaraxxus.
And just imagine the rage that would commence from your opponent after you Jaraxxus'ing back to 15hp, then Alex'ing a turn or two later. rofllll.
Also:
Viable cards if you want to cut the one hellfire from the deck, or cut a mortal coil:
- Ragnaros
- BGH
- Black knight (The feelz you get when you black knight a highmane an annoying #%#$#% hunter has houndmastered are nice, quite nice; since you can't always count on having an owl at that time). I tend to like to use them early on cards like mad scientist anyways.
- Alexstraza (while also playing with Jaraxxus).
- Power overwhelming
- Sylvanus or Cairne (shadowflame on either of these can be sexy).
Overall though the best choices would probably be TBK, Alex, or BGH.
http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/class-discussion/warlock/21218-handlock-the-tech-choices
I made this a while back, and the responses are pretty decent I would say, covers the most common variations nowdays.
As for 1 hellfire, it has many uses, so Im not sold on cutting it...
-It gives you lethal quite often IMO, through taunts, and is a nice combo with soulfire fornthat final push.
-It can set up super strong hellfire+tap+double molten+sunfury/argus plays.
-It is great at clearing the board together with mortal coil.
-zoo is still very popular, and it cant be played around as much as shaddowflame can. Eggs make it weaker though.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Hellfire is amazing vs shaman though, really like a 3rd aoe there, but otherwise I agree that it is a weak card. Guess it is quite meta dependent. My reasoning for cutting a siphon is that it feels slow in current meta. Sure, it is great vs mirror or warrior. But otherwise it loses you tempo, and in a sense alex in a way do the same thing, i.e. heal if needed and improves you board.
But will try cutting hellfire, unfortunately not much time to play lately.
Guys I really like play handlock and at my rank 9 i am not facing too much hunters so its ok. But i am having too much troubles with zoo.. even with good starting hands with early ancients and taunts hellfires...
Im running a deck very similar to barrendaberg but with 1 mortal coil less and a senjin instead.
What would you recomend me? any play style?
I feel for you, BobHughes, I also encountered a swarm of hunters and zoo with owls at rank 8, so I had to swich to my anti zoo/hunter-mage and got to rank 7.
The sad truth for handlocks is that it is not that hard to counter. If there are too many of us, the number of counter cards/decks seem to explode!
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
General rule is to always keep molten vs Warlock on ladder (assume zoo), do not ever mulligan it. I haven't lost to a zoo lock yet this season playing handlock. (or on the contrary, if you don't have it, mulligan for it).
And yes, the one match-up where not having a hellfire sort of sucks is vs Shaman.
Hellfire is also awful against Priest, Druid and Warrior.
Against Aggressive or minion-based decks without reach (Zoo, Druid, Deathrattle Priest, Shockadin, etc.) you don't need to get on the board right away. I would rather turn 2 tap, turn 3/4 Earthen Ring/coin Drake, turn 4/5 Watcher Sunfury than turn 1/2 Watcher/Coin Watcher turn 2/3 Sunfury or silence it. Setting up giant taunt walls EVENTUALLY (eg before you are in lethal range, like 6-13 depending on the opponent) is what matters, not setting up as fast as possible. I see a lot of people make this mistake and run out of answers in the midgame when their fragile early board-control attempts falter.
Also, against non-aggressive decks you should try to avoid taunting giants, as it exposes them to attacks and The Black Knight. As strange as it sounds, you want to protect your 8/8's with taunts like Sludge Belcher or taunted Drakes, Watchers, and Earthen Ring Farseers so that they can kill the opponent. Against aggro you need as much taunt HP as possible and can't afford to taunt lower health guys, though.
Also, I don't see how you're having so much trouble against zoo as handlock, maybe you're tapping too much early instead of just playing shit? I just lost to a zoo lock earlier today in a game where I literally did not draw a single sunfry/argus, no shadowflames, and no hellfire; and the only reason they won was because they fucking tapped into a soulfire after playing doomguard turn 8 or 9 (I was at 3hp after he attacked me w/ the doomguard). rofl. I had jaraxxus next turn and was able to kill the doomguard np. He had 0 cards left and was all-in at that point. Literally came down to him pulling a 1 out of 15 tap to win, when I drew like absolute shit (no board clears all game, and the dude had a fast start/strong starting hand also).. Considering that, you shouldn't really be having much trouble? yes? :P
Also, fairly reflective of my ladder experience when playing handlock. Or at least 90% of the time ^^