I'm really struggling to construct a Shaman deck that does consistently well. I've played a ton of games and I record my stats against each class. I currently have a 40% win rate. The only classes I am able to statistically beat are Mage, Warlock, and Rogue.
- get close but lose at end of game because not enough finish?
- Get in overload debt and lose because they get tempo and never give it back?
- get swarmed and faced before you draw a 3 mana card?
- Get you ballz pounded by their big minions with no answer?
I love me some unstable ghoul in a predatory anti-agro deck, though not sure it works in thie one. I spy...no harvest golems in this deck! They are great at leaving leftovers, which works well with flametongues. For more expensive options, you could toss in a The Balck Knight if you have one, or Sylvanas and a reincarnate.
Some people remove their lightning bolts to lessen the overload problem. I have an effective deck that deletes those, but still, they are noce, especially with a Thalnos and Azure drakes.
Perhaps a Doomhammer AND Al'kir as finishers are too much? (don't know, just suggesting possible changes). If not, an alternative choice would be a bloodlust, This would be another finisher and something to really clear board or large minions with your small minions if needed.
As it is, it seems like a good deck overall, like a more than 40% deck.
I added the Unstable Ghouls in an attempt to counter agro Hunter as I have an abysmal record vs it (10%) but they kind of suck against everything else except Zoo. I did experiment a bit with Zombie Chow as well and found it somewhat effective against hunter and zoo as well but is similarly useless against other decks.
Black Knight is actually one of the few legendaries I'm still missing; I have nearly everything else. However, I haven't really had a big issue dealing with large taunts as I usually have a hex or earthshock available by that point.
That record against Hunter is really abysmal considering they don't have Buzzard anymore and you have Unstable Ghoul and Sludge Belcher. I don't think it should be 10% with this deck.
Random thoughts, but how has your mana curve been going in game? There's a lot of 5 mana drops, only Feral Spirits for 3 mana (which screw over next turn if you don't have a turn 2 play besides totem), and a single Defender of Argus for 4 mana (which is conditional depending on the board). The one mana spells smooths the curve, but they're reactive plays, so they won't always be there.
I feel like a lot of toteming goes on early game. You can't even play Haunted Creeper and Ghoul together because you're spider tokens will die.
Thanks for the feedback, I'm now considering removing the ghouls and adding a Gnomish Inventor for the 4 slot and Acidic Swamp Ooze as I see a lot of hunter and warrior weapons.
Good points on the mana curve above. I do ok with my heavy mana curve, legendary rich control shaman with a similar curve, though. I do run two loot hoarders, plus the two haunted creeers, two harvesters and also the ferals. I am also a psycho that runs two Far Sights. Weird how often I am dropping 4-6 mana minons around turn 3, plus cycling my deck for my combos. Oh, and FYI instead of Mana Tide I run Cult Master. both have strengths and weaknesses.
Regarding the hunter matchup, the deck described above does ok with them, but mostly because I have really learned to play against their secrets with my predatory anti-agro priest deck. The trick is to enticipate the trap they have, and sometimes you just don't attack them right away, instead dropping a small minon that will attack next turn. Tougher with shaman because your lifeline ticks with no heal, though. But the huge minions I have plus Sylvanas + reincarnate to steal his Highmane helps a lot.
Defenders of Argus frequently help against hunters, too. I run two. Even use them on totems just to buy time.
I updated the deck list in the OP. The games I win are so close and lucky; usually it just comes down to a coin toss on who can top deck the right card to pull it off.
I've just been watching a player on twitch by the name of Koyuki0 and he just achieved legend rank with shaman. He was using 2x zombie chow, doomhammer and al'akir, 2x defender of argus, 1 x harvest golem, 1x gnomish inventor, 2x haunted creeper, and all the usually jazz.
I just don't get what you're supposed to do when your opponent coins out 2 undertakers on the first turn then hits you for 6 on turn 2 and has 4 minions on the board and hits you for like 12 on turn 3....
I now actually have 8% win vs Hunter. Yes EIGHT PERCENT, that means 92% LOSS RATE. By the time I actually establish a board presence and deal with all their shit, they can kill me just with their hero power and/or a kill command.
Your deck looks pretty standard except for the 2 Oozes I would swap one for another Defender.
Without being too harsh f you are winning 40% with this deck you are probably lacking some fundamentals in gameplay rather than deck building. Minion placement and order of play is really important in Shamen it is quite a technical class. (btw I am not a good Shaman player myself - it's hard).
Suggest you watch some streamers who player Shamen e.g. Jab or Gaara or even Trumps Youtube F2P series which is still relevant.
Thanks for the advice everyone, I really appreciate it. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that my fundamentals in gameplay aren't that bad given that I've played a ton of games, watched pros play on twitch and youtube, and played quite a bit of mtg and poker before hearthstone.
I actually find the zoo matchup considerably easier than the hunter because it doesn't have the added pressure of 2 extra damage per turn or secrets to deal with.
I am definitely removing the oozes now, despite the number of warriors and hunters I face, as they're too situational and I don't see any pros using them right now.
@gloomisawesome I really like your decklist there, what's your rank? I like the number of options you have with reincarnate.
you know what they say, if you can beat em, join em. That list that gloom posted, you could even try to squeeze in an undertaker of your own. i personally would only run one reincarnate.
I just tried glooms deck, lost yet again to hunter and warrior.
I refuse to play hunter right now though. It's just so incredibly lame to me that everyone literally uses the exact same deck and wins so easily. I seriously just feel like rage-quitting at the start everytime I queue up a hunter opponent at this point.
Maybe you could record yourself playing or stream it and have twitch record it for you and link it here. I don't know if people are interested in watching peoples videos to help them but I would be happy to help. I feel pretty confident about my shamaning ability lol. I don't play enough to get anywhere cuz I get mad when I lose, but I feel like shaman can beat any class with a decent win rate except maybe priest and even then sometimes you can still beat them despite half the cards in their deck do direct 2 for 1's lol.
Personally I play a suuuuper standard midrange shaman. No need for sylvanas and all these reincarnate shenanigans. Though the sylanas deathrattle stuff is very nice if you are playing vs a lot of priest cuz then you can finally beat them with confidence, but to me it hurts your matchup vs aggro decks which is shamans real problem. A standard midrange shaman in my opinion is really good against every control deck out there except priest and maybe paladin. I suppose freeze mage beats us up but they are rare and you can burst them down. My point is, try a more standard deck, it does better vs aggro. Something with 2 arguses, eggs, creepers, harvest golems or unbounds (not both I personally think). I went on a 14 game win streak over the past few days playing my standard shaman deck.
That's the deck I play. Super standard except for hogger who I have been trying instead of Loatheb...but I've never drawn him yet! So I don't know if he's worth it or not lmao.
^What he said, also you can even swap out Thalnos for a Wild pyro or an ooze if you wanna deck tech against hunter even more, spell power itsnt needed as much in that matchup also tbk helps take out their belchers
I'm really struggling to construct a Shaman deck that does consistently well. I've played a ton of games and I record my stats against each class. I currently have a 40% win rate. The only classes I am able to statistically beat are Mage, Warlock, and Rogue.
How do you tend to lose?
- get close but lose at end of game because not enough finish?
- Get in overload debt and lose because they get tempo and never give it back?
- get swarmed and faced before you draw a 3 mana card?
- Get you ballz pounded by their big minions with no answer?
I love me some unstable ghoul in a predatory anti-agro deck, though not sure it works in thie one. I spy...no harvest golems in this deck! They are great at leaving leftovers, which works well with flametongues. For more expensive options, you could toss in a The Balck Knight if you have one, or Sylvanas and a reincarnate.
Some people remove their lightning bolts to lessen the overload problem. I have an effective deck that deletes those, but still, they are noce, especially with a Thalnos and Azure drakes.
Perhaps a Doomhammer AND Al'kir as finishers are too much? (don't know, just suggesting possible changes). If not, an alternative choice would be a bloodlust, This would be another finisher and something to really clear board or large minions with your small minions if needed.
As it is, it seems like a good deck overall, like a more than 40% deck.
I added the Unstable Ghouls in an attempt to counter agro Hunter as I have an abysmal record vs it (10%) but they kind of suck against everything else except Zoo. I did experiment a bit with Zombie Chow as well and found it somewhat effective against hunter and zoo as well but is similarly useless against other decks.
Black Knight is actually one of the few legendaries I'm still missing; I have nearly everything else. However, I haven't really had a big issue dealing with large taunts as I usually have a hex or earthshock available by that point.
I'm considering -doomhammer -2x unstable ghoul for +bloodlust +2x harvest golem
That record against Hunter is really abysmal considering they don't have Buzzard anymore and you have Unstable Ghoul and Sludge Belcher. I don't think it should be 10% with this deck.
Random thoughts, but how has your mana curve been going in game? There's a lot of 5 mana drops, only Feral Spirits for 3 mana (which screw over next turn if you don't have a turn 2 play besides totem), and a single Defender of Argus for 4 mana (which is conditional depending on the board). The one mana spells smooths the curve, but they're reactive plays, so they won't always be there.
I feel like a lot of toteming goes on early game. You can't even play Haunted Creeper and Ghoul together because you're spider tokens will die.
Thanks for the feedback, I'm now considering removing the ghouls and adding a Gnomish Inventor for the 4 slot and Acidic Swamp Ooze as I see a lot of hunter and warrior weapons.
Good points on the mana curve above. I do ok with my heavy mana curve, legendary rich control shaman with a similar curve, though. I do run two loot hoarders, plus the two haunted creeers, two harvesters and also the ferals. I am also a psycho that runs two Far Sights. Weird how often I am dropping 4-6 mana minons around turn 3, plus cycling my deck for my combos. Oh, and FYI instead of Mana Tide I run Cult Master. both have strengths and weaknesses.
Regarding the hunter matchup, the deck described above does ok with them, but mostly because I have really learned to play against their secrets with my predatory anti-agro priest deck. The trick is to enticipate the trap they have, and sometimes you just don't attack them right away, instead dropping a small minon that will attack next turn. Tougher with shaman because your lifeline ticks with no heal, though. But the huge minions I have plus Sylvanas + reincarnate to steal his Highmane helps a lot.
Defenders of Argus frequently help against hunters, too. I run two. Even use them on totems just to buy time.
I updated the deck list in the OP. The games I win are so close and lucky; usually it just comes down to a coin toss on who can top deck the right card to pull it off.
I've just been watching a player on twitch by the name of Koyuki0 and he just achieved legend rank with shaman. He was using 2x zombie chow, doomhammer and al'akir, 2x defender of argus, 1 x harvest golem, 1x gnomish inventor, 2x haunted creeper, and all the usually jazz.
I just don't get what you're supposed to do when your opponent coins out 2 undertakers on the first turn then hits you for 6 on turn 2 and has 4 minions on the board and hits you for like 12 on turn 3....
I now actually have 8% win vs Hunter. Yes EIGHT PERCENT, that means 92% LOSS RATE. By the time I actually establish a board presence and deal with all their shit, they can kill me just with their hero power and/or a kill command.
Your deck looks pretty standard except for the 2 Oozes I would swap one for another Defender.
Without being too harsh f you are winning 40% with this deck you are probably lacking some fundamentals in gameplay rather than deck building. Minion placement and order of play is really important in Shamen it is quite a technical class. (btw I am not a good Shaman player myself - it's hard).
Suggest you watch some streamers who player Shamen e.g. Jab or Gaara or even Trumps Youtube F2P series which is still relevant.
Thanks for the advice everyone, I really appreciate it. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that my fundamentals in gameplay aren't that bad given that I've played a ton of games, watched pros play on twitch and youtube, and played quite a bit of mtg and poker before hearthstone.
I actually find the zoo matchup considerably easier than the hunter because it doesn't have the added pressure of 2 extra damage per turn or secrets to deal with.
I am definitely removing the oozes now, despite the number of warriors and hunters I face, as they're too situational and I don't see any pros using them right now.
@gloomisawesome I really like your decklist there, what's your rank? I like the number of options you have with reincarnate.
you know what they say, if you can beat em, join em. That list that gloom posted, you could even try to squeeze in an undertaker of your own. i personally would only run one reincarnate.
I just tried glooms deck, lost yet again to hunter and warrior.
I refuse to play hunter right now though. It's just so incredibly lame to me that everyone literally uses the exact same deck and wins so easily. I seriously just feel like rage-quitting at the start everytime I queue up a hunter opponent at this point.
Maybe you could record yourself playing or stream it and have twitch record it for you and link it here. I don't know if people are interested in watching peoples videos to help them but I would be happy to help. I feel pretty confident about my shamaning ability lol. I don't play enough to get anywhere cuz I get mad when I lose, but I feel like shaman can beat any class with a decent win rate except maybe priest and even then sometimes you can still beat them despite half the cards in their deck do direct 2 for 1's lol.
Personally I play a suuuuper standard midrange shaman. No need for sylvanas and all these reincarnate shenanigans. Though the sylanas deathrattle stuff is very nice if you are playing vs a lot of priest cuz then you can finally beat them with confidence, but to me it hurts your matchup vs aggro decks which is shamans real problem. A standard midrange shaman in my opinion is really good against every control deck out there except priest and maybe paladin. I suppose freeze mage beats us up but they are rare and you can burst them down. My point is, try a more standard deck, it does better vs aggro. Something with 2 arguses, eggs, creepers, harvest golems or unbounds (not both I personally think). I went on a 14 game win streak over the past few days playing my standard shaman deck.
http://imgur.com/sv59U4y
That's the deck I play. Super standard except for hogger who I have been trying instead of Loatheb...but I've never drawn him yet! So I don't know if he's worth it or not lmao.
when i said join them, i didnt mean play hunter, i meant play an undertaker or two
take out the inventor, and acidic swamp ooze. add second defender of argus and 2 harvest golem.
Humperdink Humperdink Humperdink!!!
^What he said, also you can even swap out Thalnos for a Wild pyro or an ooze if you wanna deck tech against hunter even more, spell power itsnt needed as much in that matchup also tbk helps take out their belchers
@L3xx: I love playing the belchers but hate seeing my opponent throw them down, lol. they are pretty OP
Humperdink Humperdink Humperdink!!!