When I saw the Anub'ar Ambusher first, I instantly knew that the MalyRogue has the perfect slot for it. Why? Because it's more midrange than Miracle Rogue but still doesn't use too many minions that could be counterproductive towards the drawback of Anub'ar Ambusher. The 3-drops on the other hand are happily brought back to your hand to get extra value of their Battlecries.
With the upcoming Leeroy Jenkins nerf as of 09/22/2014, this deck might have a big comeback. With the also upcoming Starving Buzzard change Hunter won't be as explosive anymore. Thus I think Zoo and Control will make a comeback to counter the current Midrange meta (especially Priests). This deck is strong against both. Less Hunters also means less weapons in the meta. Assassin's Blade might therefore make a comeback.
I could be completely wrong, but Anub'ar Ambusher doesn't seem fantastic here. SI:7 is the ideal target for Ambushers "drawback", and that's 3 mana for 2 damage at best. What makes SI:7 good is that he's 2 damage plus a 3/3 body, bouncing him and recasting for 2 damage is rarely going to be better than simply attacking with a 3/3, it can be a good play with shadowstep on occasion, because you're only paying 1 mana to do another 2 damage, and that's usually only done when that 2 damage is pivotal. The same is true with Earthen Ring Farseer.
If this was a reasonably good play, you would see people running Ancient Brewmaster, which is roughly equivalent in stats, and allows you to choose when you decide to bounce your creatures.
You have just as many minions in the deck that you absolutely don't want bounced as the ones that you would gain some benefit from bouncing, and a couple that wouldn't be incredibly good or bad, but would still be a tempo loss.
I could be completely wrong, but Anub'ar Ambusher doesn't seem fantastic here. SI:7 is the ideal target for Ambushers "drawback", and that's 3 mana for 2 damage at best. What makes SI:7 good is that he's 2 damage plus a 3/3 body, bouncing him and recasting for 2 damage is rarely going to be better than simply attacking with a 3/3, it can be a good play with shadowstep on occasion, because you're only paying 1 mana to do another 2 damage, and that's usually only done when that 2 damage is pivotal. The same is true with Earthen Ring Farseer.
If this was a reasonably good play, you would see people running Ancient Brewmaster, which is roughly equivalent in stats, and allows you to choose when you decide to bounce your creatures.
You have just as many minions in the deck that you absolutely don't want bounced as the ones that you would gain some benefit from bouncing, and a couple that wouldn't be incredibly good or bad, but would still be a tempo loss.
I see your point and this was discussed in the thread, when Anub'ar Ambusher was revealed. A lot of people agreed, that the tempo loss is bad. I haven't playtested in Cockatrice, so I can't definitely say if it's good or bad. But I think it's way better than people think.
First of all: I don't think you can compare Anub'ar Ambusher with Ancient Brewmaster (I will even ignore the *only* 4 health of Ancient Brewmaster here). People say Ancient Brewmaster is better because you can chose, which minion you want to return. I disagree on that. The fact that you don't have to return something when you play Anub'ar Ambusher makes it way better. The enemy has to get rid of its 5 health first before anything gets returned. And even if he manages to destroy your Anub'ar Ambusher and your SI:7 Agent or Earthen Ring Farseer is returned to your hand, you can be pretty sure, that you can summon on an empty board next turn. It's very unlikely that the opponent destroyed your Anub'ar Ambusher and has massive board control after this turn 4/5 (you need to do 5 damage with 4 or 5 mana). This is probably only possible for Zoo or Rogue. And remember: you played your 3-drop on turn 3 and even attacked with it on turn 4. So either your 3-drop is dead anyway (because you traded with a 2/3/4-drop) or the enemy doesn't have a board at all. In the latter I will be happy to reuse the 3-drop and its Battlecry.
This is theory of course. But my point is that in most cases you won't even be in this "bad" spot.
I could be completely wrong, but Anub'ar Ambusher doesn't seem fantastic here. SI:7 is the ideal target for Ambushers "drawback", and that's 3 mana for 2 damage at best. What makes SI:7 good is that he's 2 damage plus a 3/3 body, bouncing him and recasting for 2 damage is rarely going to be better than simply attacking with a 3/3, it can be a good play with shadowstep on occasion, because you're only paying 1 mana to do another 2 damage, and that's usually only done when that 2 damage is pivotal. The same is true with Earthen Ring Farseer.
If this was a reasonably good play, you would see people running Ancient Brewmaster, which is roughly equivalent in stats, and allows you to choose when you decide to bounce your creatures.
You have just as many minions in the deck that you absolutely don't want bounced as the ones that you would gain some benefit from bouncing, and a couple that wouldn't be incredibly good or bad, but would still be a tempo loss.
I see your point and this was discussed in the thread, when Anub'ar Ambusher was revealed. A lot of people agreed, that the tempo loss is bad. I haven't playtested in Cockatrice, so I can't definitely say if it's good or bad. But I think it's way better than people think.
First of all: I don't think you can compare Anub'ar Ambusher with Ancient Brewmaster (I will even ignore the *only* 4 health of Ancient Brewmaster here). People say Ancient Brewmaster is better because you can chose, which minion you want to return. I disagree on that. The fact that you don't have to return something when you play Anub'ar Ambusher makes it way better. The enemy has to get rid of its 5 health first before anything gets returned. And even if he manages to destroy your Anub'ar Ambusher and your SI:7 Agent or Earthen Ring Farseer is returned to your hand, you can be pretty sure, that you can summon on an empty board next turn. It's very unlikely that the opponent destroyed your Anub'ar Ambusher and has massive board control after this turn 4/5 (you need to do 5 damage with 4 or 5 mana). This is probably only possible for Zoo or Rogue. And remember: you played your 3-drop on turn 3 and even attacked with it on turn 4. So either your 3-drop is dead anyway (because you traded with a 2/3/4-drop) or the enemy doesn't have a board at all. In the latter I will be happy to reuse the 3-drop and its Battlecry.
This is theory of course. But my point is that in most cases you won't even be in this "bad" spot.
Even if this is better than Brewmaster, it still seems worse than something like Ogre Magi in a deck like this. The spell damage seems more beneficial than the +1/+1 and the rare occasions where the bounce would be good, and there's no risk of it ever actually hurting you. I should clarify that I don't think that Ogre Magi is the best choice for that slot, just the best comparison short of Brewmaster. I do like that this could potentially allow you to recast a silenced Vancleef though.
I play Malygod quiet a bit being trying out some different variations +/- Alexstrasza (similar to the old version of the deck) for example and I think the Anub'ar Ambusher does have a decent amount of synergy with the deck, if it baits a silence or removal that's profit, if you manage to get a Earthen Ring Farseer, SI:7 Agent or even an Azure Drake returned its a decent Deathrattle. I find especially in Malygod rogue you need the Farseers and SI7s with removal to hang on to the game for what is a slightly later finisher than the regular Miracle Leeroy..
Thanks Skook, that's exactly what I'm thinking! Especially the Earthen Ring Farseers are great to reuse.
With the upcoming Leeroy Jenkins nerf as of 09/22/2014, this deck might have a big comeback. With the also upcoming Starving Buzzard change Hunter won't be as explosive anymore. Thus I think Zoo and Control will make a comeback to counter the current Midrange meta (especially Priests). This deck is strong against both.
yeah, I actually created the deck on June, 18th, exactly the day, Anub'ar Ambusher was released. He just fits perfectly in this list. Cool, that you came to the same conclusion ^^
I actually also played this deck a lot, but in the end the regular Miracle was more powerful (especially in the mirror). Now it will find its comeback as it is very strong in the control matchups. The Anub'ar Ambushers are killer against Druid for example.
My list list wasn't shown updated in the thread (only in the deck list), but this should be fixed now.
You are probably right about Big Game Hunter. If Handlock rises, we need him desperatley. Thanks!
What I don't like at your list is the second Fan of Knives over the second Blade Flurry. You really need that second Blade Flurry as finisher-damage. As you play this deck much more midrangeish (i.e. never keep Gadgetzan Auctioneer in your starting hand, small miracles are ok, etc.) you don't really need the additional draw from Fan of Knives.
I see that the 5-slot is a little bit crowded, but it's only Loatheb, I'm running more atm (over Edwin VanCleef), so the curve is pretty much the same. I just feel, that Loatheb has better synergy with the Ambushers and also pushes for damage in the midgame (check the description, I used Edwin VanCleef before). I also think that the Anub'ar Ambushers do Edwin VanCleefs job better in this list. But let's see what fits better in the end. The post-nerf-meta isn't set right now, but I will probably add one Big Game Hunter.
Really curious how it will stand in the post nerf meta and not at all unhappy about the Leeroy Jenkins nerf ^^
The thing about vancleef is that, with Hunters out of the way, so is the wave of Zoo going to be back, Edwin is pretty much the "I win" whenever you can pull him 8/8 or more early in the game (even if you spent almost all your hand doing so) against aggro decks such as Zoo.
Loatheb, as you mentioned yourself, is competing with more sinergic cards for the 5-drop spot, and FoK is still a board wipe with malygos, you should notice its a self-cycleing spell, so we need it over the second bladeflury, also notice that you can only 2x Blade Flurry if you go for either Assassin's Blade or Perdition blade and I failed to find a slot for either of them.
I'm glad to see this thread! I also had the idea of using Ambushers in a Malygod deck when they were first released. Sadly, the current Leeroy miracle deck didn't fully synergize with the new card and it was simply a superior deck in many ways.
But now that Leeroy has been nerfed, I agree this deck could see a rise and I'm wholly interested. I'm definitely copying some stuff from this thread, if you don't mind!
I don't really see why you would need an Assassin's Blade or Perdition's Blade to run a second Blade Flurry in this deck. With the amount of spell damage Malygos gives, you happily just destroy one of your Wicked Knifes for board wipe and face damage.
Hi everybody,
this is senti with another deck release.
When I saw the Anub'ar Ambusher first, I instantly knew that the MalyRogue has the perfect slot for it. Why? Because it's more midrange than Miracle Rogue but still doesn't use too many minions that could be counterproductive towards the drawback of Anub'ar Ambusher. The 3-drops on the other hand are happily brought back to your hand to get extra value of their Battlecries.
Let me know, if you like it!
Update 09/12/2014
With the upcoming Leeroy Jenkins nerf as of 09/22/2014, this deck might have a big comeback. With the also upcoming Starving Buzzard change Hunter won't be as explosive anymore. Thus I think Zoo and Control will make a comeback to counter the current Midrange meta (especially Priests). This deck is strong against both.
Less Hunters also means less weapons in the meta. Assassin's Blade might therefore make a comeback.
[Firebat] AtaK's Rogue "Elegance": http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/44975-firebat-ataks-rogue-elegance
- senti
I could be completely wrong, but Anub'ar Ambusher doesn't seem fantastic here. SI:7 is the ideal target for Ambushers "drawback", and that's 3 mana for 2 damage at best. What makes SI:7 good is that he's 2 damage plus a 3/3 body, bouncing him and recasting for 2 damage is rarely going to be better than simply attacking with a 3/3, it can be a good play with shadowstep on occasion, because you're only paying 1 mana to do another 2 damage, and that's usually only done when that 2 damage is pivotal. The same is true with Earthen Ring Farseer.
If this was a reasonably good play, you would see people running Ancient Brewmaster, which is roughly equivalent in stats, and allows you to choose when you decide to bounce your creatures.
You have just as many minions in the deck that you absolutely don't want bounced as the ones that you would gain some benefit from bouncing, and a couple that wouldn't be incredibly good or bad, but would still be a tempo loss.
I see your point and this was discussed in the thread, when Anub'ar Ambusher was revealed. A lot of people agreed, that the tempo loss is bad. I haven't playtested in Cockatrice, so I can't definitely say if it's good or bad. But I think it's way better than people think.
First of all: I don't think you can compare Anub'ar Ambusher with Ancient Brewmaster (I will even ignore the *only* 4 health of Ancient Brewmaster here). People say Ancient Brewmaster is better because you can chose, which minion you want to return. I disagree on that. The fact that you don't have to return something when you play Anub'ar Ambusher makes it way better. The enemy has to get rid of its 5 health first before anything gets returned. And even if he manages to destroy your Anub'ar Ambusher and your SI:7 Agent or Earthen Ring Farseer is returned to your hand, you can be pretty sure, that you can summon on an empty board next turn. It's very unlikely that the opponent destroyed your Anub'ar Ambusher and has massive board control after this turn 4/5 (you need to do 5 damage with 4 or 5 mana). This is probably only possible for Zoo or Rogue. And remember: you played your 3-drop on turn 3 and even attacked with it on turn 4. So either your 3-drop is dead anyway (because you traded with a 2/3/4-drop) or the enemy doesn't have a board at all. In the latter I will be happy to reuse the 3-drop and its Battlecry.
This is theory of course. But my point is that in most cases you won't even be in this "bad" spot.
- senti
Even if this is better than Brewmaster, it still seems worse than something like Ogre Magi in a deck like this. The spell damage seems more beneficial than the +1/+1 and the rare occasions where the bounce would be good, and there's no risk of it ever actually hurting you. I should clarify that I don't think that Ogre Magi is the best choice for that slot, just the best comparison short of Brewmaster. I do like that this could potentially allow you to recast a silenced Vancleef though.
Thanks Skook, that's exactly what I'm thinking! Especially the Earthen Ring Farseers are great to reuse.
- senti
Update: I think Loatheb might be a great option in this deck. He could even be recycled with great Anub'ar Ambusher plays.
I'm not sure what to remove for him though.
- senti
Bookmarked this thread, will be posting here my thoughts throughout the next season (september.)
NOTE: I'll be playing on the NA servers.
Hi everybody,
With the upcoming Leeroy Jenkins nerf as of 09/22/2014, this deck might have a big comeback. With the also upcoming Starving Buzzard change Hunter won't be as explosive anymore. Thus I think Zoo and Control will make a comeback to counter the current Midrange meta (especially Priests). This deck is strong against both.
- senti
Oh wow this is similar to the version I came up with on my post-nerf theorycrafting writings yesterday, good job!
But I think you need to consider some other things, such as mana curve, meta and stuff. Handlock is also back, so I think this is safer:
Retired Hearthstone Columnist
Hey Nuba,
yeah, I actually created the deck on June, 18th, exactly the day, Anub'ar Ambusher was released. He just fits perfectly in this list. Cool, that you came to the same conclusion ^^
I actually also played this deck a lot, but in the end the regular Miracle was more powerful (especially in the mirror). Now it will find its comeback as it is very strong in the control matchups. The Anub'ar Ambushers are killer against Druid for example.
My list list wasn't shown updated in the thread (only in the deck list), but this should be fixed now.
You are probably right about Big Game Hunter. If Handlock rises, we need him desperatley. Thanks!
What I don't like at your list is the second Fan of Knives over the second Blade Flurry. You really need that second Blade Flurry as finisher-damage. As you play this deck much more midrangeish (i.e. never keep Gadgetzan Auctioneer in your starting hand, small miracles are ok, etc.) you don't really need the additional draw from Fan of Knives.
I see that the 5-slot is a little bit crowded, but it's only Loatheb, I'm running more atm (over Edwin VanCleef), so the curve is pretty much the same. I just feel, that Loatheb has better synergy with the Ambushers and also pushes for damage in the midgame (check the description, I used Edwin VanCleef before). I also think that the Anub'ar Ambushers do Edwin VanCleefs job better in this list. But let's see what fits better in the end. The post-nerf-meta isn't set right now, but I will probably add one Big Game Hunter.
Really curious how it will stand in the post nerf meta and not at all unhappy about the Leeroy Jenkins nerf ^^
Cheers
- senti
The thing about vancleef is that, with Hunters out of the way, so is the wave of Zoo going to be back, Edwin is pretty much the "I win" whenever you can pull him 8/8 or more early in the game (even if you spent almost all your hand doing so) against aggro decks such as Zoo.
Loatheb, as you mentioned yourself, is competing with more sinergic cards for the 5-drop spot, and FoK is still a board wipe with malygos, you should notice its a self-cycleing spell, so we need it over the second bladeflury, also notice that you can only 2x Blade Flurry if you go for either Assassin's Blade or Perdition blade and I failed to find a slot for either of them.
Retired Hearthstone Columnist
I'm glad to see this thread! I also had the idea of using Ambushers in a Malygod deck when they were first released. Sadly, the current Leeroy miracle deck didn't fully synergize with the new card and it was simply a superior deck in many ways.
But now that Leeroy has been nerfed, I agree this deck could see a rise and I'm wholly interested. I'm definitely copying some stuff from this thread, if you don't mind!
Edwin VanCleef overLoatheb is debatable, I agree!
I don't really see why you would need an Assassin's Blade or Perdition's Blade to run a second Blade Flurry in this deck. With the amount of spell damage Malygos gives, you happily just destroy one of your Wicked Knifes for board wipe and face damage.
- senti
What about using cards like Headcrack and an extra Kobold Geomancer for more spell power?