The deck has been around for too long, but it got overshadowed by Undertaker Hunter, due to the popularity of the build. Right now, with Hunter almost out of the picture MechMage is king of the hill in aggro (and probably the entire game right now). So what this means for Paladin lovers?
Mechmage is a bad matchup for us. Worse than Hunters were. The fact that Mechmage is out there makes the counterdeck popular as well, this would be Rogue with added Sabotage for stealthed Antonidas dealing. Meaning that right now the ladder is filled with Mechmages and Rogues. Personally I can't think of worse matchups for Paladins.
Any ideas on how to use midrange or control in ladder right now? I went for Earthern Ring Farseer for the 3drop and life back, but I can't say it's working.
I would recommend a control pally deck with more aoe and more healing.
So, double equality, double wild pyromancer, and two consecrations for aoe. Double earthen ring farseer, double antique healbot, and double guardian of kings for heals.
EDIT: Also, add more early game minions (such as minions with a mana cost of 1 to 4), instead of late game minions if you are unlucky with getting any healing or aoe cards in your opening hand or the mulligan. Also make sure to have aldor peacekeeper x2 and truesilver champion x2.
In other words, make it so that you're either going to get aoe, heals, or minions that you can play early on (such as annoy-o-tron, aldor peacekeeper, voodoo doctor, shielded minibot, harvest golem, etc...)
Noticed anyone complaining about other decks? A thread about 'how to deal with X deck' is nowhere near complaining. Don't just run along to protect your favorite deck, it's safe with us.
Mohamed_Dean: I tried that route, and although theory says it works it doesn't, because you rely a lot to your drawing Equality. The rest are non relevant because you rarely survive to turn 8 in such a health total that Guardian of Kings would make a difference.
The OP literally said. OMG mechamage way too broken for me to put along 2 neurones and think of ways to deal with it. On the meantime nerf their cards so i can keep playing my deck without worrying on adapting it to the meta. I'm running mechmage as main deck and i'm teching it every damn day depending on what's most seen, adding polys or pyros if meta goes controllish or adding belchers if elswhere goes more aggro.
What are you talking about, I am the OP and I didn't even said anything about Mechmage being broken. I just said it was popular.
Noticed anyone complaining about other decks? A thread about 'how to deal with X deck' is nowhere near complaining. Don't just run along to protect your favorite deck, it's safe with us.
Mohamed_Dean: I tried that route, and although theory says it works it doesn't, because you rely a lot to your drawing Equality. The rest are non relevant because you rarely survive to turn 8 in such a health total that Guardian of Kings would make a difference.
Hmm... What early game minions do you have? Do you mind posting the deck you are using (if you don't want to share exactly what deck you're using, just give me the minions you are using up to 4 mana cost).
Reason I ask is because with the addition of equality x2, wild pyromancer x2 and consecration x2, you can easily wipe the board at varying stages of the match. If the mech mage is causing problems for you, try to mulligan for equality and wild pyromancer, earthen ring farseer and a sticky early game minion.
The key for you is to stabilize. The mech mage will more than not burn through their hand to get as many mechs on the board. So, for you, make sure to have checkpoints which will determine what defensive strategy you will use.
Example:
AoE checkpoints:
Turn 4 (Wild Pyro and Equality, or consecration) Turn 6 (Wild Pyro and Equality, equality consecration, or wild pyro consecration) Turn 8 (Wild Pyro and Equality, + consecration, double consecration, equality + consecration and 2 mana left over) and so forth.
Heal checkpoints:
Turn 3 (Earthen ring farseer) Turn 5 (Antique Healbot), Turn 7 (Guardian of Kings).
So you have something to do on turns 3 (Heal), 4 (AoE), 5 (Heal), 6 (AoE), 7 (Heal), 8 (AoE).
For cards that are causing problems (In mech mage, it would be minions with 4 or more attack), I would recommend using: (priority would be aldor peacekeeper instead of aoe in that case).
If you are really unlucky and do not receive any aoe spells even after the mulligan, then I would recommend removing high end minions and trying to include more early game minions, so if you aren't getting any aoe, you would be most likely getting low mana cost minions.
In other words, if your deck is 50 % minions of mana cost 1 to 4, 25 % aoe, and 25 % heal, then if you don't get any aoe or heal cards during the mulligan, you will get minions with mana cost 1 to 4.
No matter wat you say or do about mech mage OP, people will ridicule you for even talking about the " precious" mage class in any type of negative way. Mages are like that spoiled little brat down the street that you know deserves a spanking for being so direspectful, but is sheltered by everyone.
When Zoo was was aggro, people complained, then when Hunter became aggro people bitched even worse, now that mage is the new brainless deck of the meta tis ok cuz its mage! Long live the aggro mage that does nothing but cause grief.
MCT? are you F kidding me? If you let a mech mage get 4 minions on the board, you have lost the game right there & then my little tool.
I just wanted to point out that it is not entirely true what you're saying.
For example, zoolock (which is still very strong - it hasnt been nerfed other than soulfire really), can easily get more than 4 minions on the board by turn 3. That doesn't, however, mean the game is lost for you.
Many times arise when you aoe a zoolock's board and they are now behind in card advantage, so you get the opportunity to heal and play minions on the board and turn the tides.
Same approach should be taken against mech mages if you face them a lot. Use your cards wisely to get card advantage and turn the tides then.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hon. BSc. Medical Physics University of Toronto Class of 2017
You my friend are wrong. The difference between zoo & mech are like night & day, you can afford to let zoo have 3-4 minion on the board and survive long enough to stabilize very easily. You cannot afford to have 3 or more mech minions on the board at once anytime during the match, they ramp up way faster than zoo ever did and their minions are so much cheaper mana wise and cause huge amounts of damage.
If a mech mage is allowed to drop 3 or more minions on the board, there is no stabilizing after that. They will freeze your answers, taunt their creatures, give their creatures extra AP, zoo is a joke compared to this disease of a class we call " mech mage ".
It's a simple variation of what I used to hit legend in the two previous seasons, with the only difference being Shieldmasters over Shredders and Earthern Ring Farseer over MCT.
The points are:
a) Consecration doesn't clear anything on its own. You need trading and this isn't always happening.
b) Wild Pyromancer is good with Equality on turn 4, so I need to find some room for it...although it's not the most reliable way to clear stuff, because it's a 2 card combo that you either have or haven't got before any card draw enters your game.
c) MCT isn't helping against Mechmage. If there are 4 minions on the board, you are probably losing afterwards.
d) Healing is fine if followed by a board clear. Probably one more healbot will make it to the list.
In a nutshell, I am not complaining about any deck being OP or anything. I am just trying to fish for ideas of tweaking a deck to fight the most popular ladder choice. If you can't help, move along, don't just twist my words and posts.
Also, if you suggest running Avenging Wrath+Equality to battle mechmage, move along to some other forum.
For my money, Paladin is the new Hunter. I built a Paladin Aggro deck to finish some quests and it's a wrecking ball in the Casual Room. I think I am 13-1 now with it. It's not going to win any tournies, but it has that same scent of FaceHunter, where the play is pretty independent of what the opponent is doing.
It's a simple variation of what I used to hit legend in the two previous seasons, with the only difference being Shieldmasters over Shredders and Earthern Ring Farseer over MCT.
The points are:
a) Consecration doesn't clear anything on its own. You need trading and this isn't always happening.
b) Wild Pyromancer is good with Equality on turn 4, so I need to find some room for it...although it's not the most reliable way to clear stuff, because it's a 2 card combo that you either have or haven't got before any card draw enters your game.
c) MCT isn't helping against Mechmage. If there are 4 minions on the board, you are probably losing afterwards.
d) Healing is fine if followed by a board clear. Probably one more healbot will make it to the list.
In a nutshell, I am not complaining about any deck being OP or anything. I am just trying to fish for ideas of tweaking a deck to fight the most popular ladder choice. If you can't help, move along, don't just twist my words and posts.
Also, if you suggest running Avenging Wrath+Equality to battle mechmage, move along to some other forum.
Alrighty, this is what I suggest:
Instead of 2 quartermasters, 1 is enough. If you are struggling to build up your board, 2 quartermasters won't do you any good sitting in your hand. They are reactive to your board. You dont want that at the moment, you want stability (which is building up your board). So, if you were already doing well in building up your board, then I would say go for it and include 2 as you would be able to get value out of them. However, you are struggling to build up your board, so 1 quartermaster is enough to react to muster for battle.
Speaking of muster, I would keep two of them regardless, it is just really good value alone and you can use those 1/1 recruits to help stabilize or finish off minions that don't die to consecration. Also, your knife juggler has great synergy with it. So, you're fine in that regard.
I would also remove 1 big game hunter if you're encountering a lot of mech mages.
So, in the end:
-1 Quartermaster (1 remaining) -1 Big Game Hunter (0 remaining)
and
+2 Wild Pyromancer
With these changes, you should be able to have a better time with clearing their board by turn 4 and have some opportunity to build up your board, while also having another backup plan in case they flood the board up again and you lose control (which you shouldnt really at that point). Try that out and let me know how it goes.
Tried with 2 Pyromancers, 2 Farseers and a Guardian of Kings on top of Healbot. Won 1 out of 13 games against mechmage. Sitting at rank 12 at the moment, I seem to face 1 of them every second match.
They did help, but I think that Handlock and mindrange mage are completely different decks than Paladin.
The thing with Paladin is if you don't have your cards for board clear, then you are kinda screwed (which you know already).
From what you're telling me now, it looks like you're just not reliably drawing into your board clears. So, lack of card draw is probably the main issue to why you're losing to mech mages.
Cult master, imo, is not reliable if mech mage has board control, since when cult master drops on the board, it will most likely die the next turn, and assuming the mage plays well, she will make sure to clear your board every turn.
Try finding some room for gnomish inventor and loot hoarder. Those two cards will help you.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hon. BSc. Medical Physics University of Toronto Class of 2017
Obviously, it's not card draw. It's drawing the specific cards at the right time (i.e. before turn 4 or 5). Gnomish inventor is too late of a cantrip to make any difference. Probably Hammer of Wrath would be better if I went that route. Works with Pyro as well and removes something on the spot without waiting to be killed by a Shredder.
Obviously, it's not card draw. It's drawing the specific cards at the right time (i.e. before turn 4 or 5). Gnomish inventor is too late of a cantrip to make any difference. Probably Hammer of Wrath would be better if I went that route. Works with Pyro as well and removes something on the spot without waiting to be killed by a Shredder.
Anyway, I will keep testing and let you know.
Yes, that's what I meant. Anyway, hammer of wrath is definitely better than gnomish inventor in your case so yea I would use that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hon. BSc. Medical Physics University of Toronto Class of 2017
Obviously, it's not card draw. It's drawing the specific cards at the right time (i.e. before turn 4 or 5). Gnomish inventor is too late of a cantrip to make any difference. Probably Hammer of Wrath would be better if I went that route. Works with Pyro as well and removes something on the spot without waiting to be killed by a Shredder.
Anyway, I will keep testing and let you know.
Yes, that's what I meant. Anyway, hammer of wrath is definitely better than gnomish inventor in your case so yea I would use that.
Mohamed, thks for all the words, would you share your build with us? Maybe that will help a lot!!
THks!
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The deck has been around for too long, but it got overshadowed by Undertaker Hunter, due to the popularity of the build. Right now, with Hunter almost out of the picture MechMage is king of the hill in aggro (and probably the entire game right now). So what this means for Paladin lovers?
Mechmage is a bad matchup for us. Worse than Hunters were. The fact that Mechmage is out there makes the counterdeck popular as well, this would be Rogue with added Sabotage for stealthed Antonidas dealing. Meaning that right now the ladder is filled with Mechmages and Rogues. Personally I can't think of worse matchups for Paladins.
Any ideas on how to use midrange or control in ladder right now? I went for Earthern Ring Farseer for the 3drop and life back, but I can't say it's working.
I would recommend a control pally deck with more aoe and more healing.
So, double equality, double wild pyromancer, and two consecrations for aoe. Double earthen ring farseer, double antique healbot, and double guardian of kings for heals.
EDIT: Also, add more early game minions (such as minions with a mana cost of 1 to 4), instead of late game minions if you are unlucky with getting any healing or aoe cards in your opening hand or the mulligan. Also make sure to have aldor peacekeeper x2 and truesilver champion x2.
In other words, make it so that you're either going to get aoe, heals, or minions that you can play early on (such as annoy-o-tron, aldor peacekeeper, voodoo doctor, shielded minibot, harvest golem, etc...)
Hon. BSc. Medical Physics
University of Toronto
Class of 2017
Noticed anyone complaining about other decks? A thread about 'how to deal with X deck' is nowhere near complaining. Don't just run along to protect your favorite deck, it's safe with us.
Mohamed_Dean: I tried that route, and although theory says it works it doesn't, because you rely a lot to your drawing Equality. The rest are non relevant because you rarely survive to turn 8 in such a health total that Guardian of Kings would make a difference.
What are you talking about, I am the OP and I didn't even said anything about Mechmage being broken. I just said it was popular.
Hmm... What early game minions do you have? Do you mind posting the deck you are using (if you don't want to share exactly what deck you're using, just give me the minions you are using up to 4 mana cost).
Reason I ask is because with the addition of equality x2, wild pyromancer x2 and consecration x2, you can easily wipe the board at varying stages of the match. If the mech mage is causing problems for you, try to mulligan for equality and wild pyromancer, earthen ring farseer and a sticky early game minion.
The key for you is to stabilize. The mech mage will more than not burn through their hand to get as many mechs on the board. So, for you, make sure to have checkpoints which will determine what defensive strategy you will use.
Example:
AoE checkpoints:
Turn 4 (Wild Pyro and Equality, or consecration)
Turn 6 (Wild Pyro and Equality, equality consecration, or wild pyro consecration)
Turn 8 (Wild Pyro and Equality, + consecration, double consecration, equality + consecration and 2 mana left over) and so forth.
Heal checkpoints:
Turn 3 (Earthen ring farseer)
Turn 5 (Antique Healbot),
Turn 7 (Guardian of Kings).
So you have something to do on turns 3 (Heal), 4 (AoE), 5 (Heal), 6 (AoE), 7 (Heal), 8 (AoE).
On turns 1-2 you could drop Shielded Minibot or Annoy-o-Tron
On turns 2-3 you could drop Faerie Dragon, followed with Coghammer
For cards that are causing problems (In mech mage, it would be minions with 4 or more attack), I would recommend using:
(priority would be aldor peacekeeper instead of aoe in that case).
If you are really unlucky and do not receive any aoe spells even after the mulligan, then I would recommend removing high end minions and trying to include more early game minions, so if you aren't getting any aoe, you would be most likely getting low mana cost minions.
In other words, if your deck is 50 % minions of mana cost 1 to 4, 25 % aoe, and 25 % heal, then if you don't get any aoe or heal cards during the mulligan, you will get minions with mana cost 1 to 4.
Hon. BSc. Medical Physics
University of Toronto
Class of 2017
No matter wat you say or do about mech mage OP, people will ridicule you for even talking about the " precious" mage class in any type of negative way. Mages are like that spoiled little brat down the street that you know deserves a spanking for being so direspectful, but is sheltered by everyone.
When Zoo was was aggro, people complained, then when Hunter became aggro people bitched even worse, now that mage is the new brainless deck of the meta tis ok cuz its mage! Long live the aggro mage that does nothing but cause grief.
MCT? are you F kidding me? If you let a mech mage get 4 minions on the board, you have lost the game right there & then <snip>.
I just wanted to point out that it is not entirely true what you're saying.
For example, zoolock (which is still very strong - it hasnt been nerfed other than soulfire really), can easily get more than 4 minions on the board by turn 3. That doesn't, however, mean the game is lost for you.
Many times arise when you aoe a zoolock's board and they are now behind in card advantage, so you get the opportunity to heal and play minions on the board and turn the tides.
Same approach should be taken against mech mages if you face them a lot. Use your cards wisely to get card advantage and turn the tides then.
Hon. BSc. Medical Physics
University of Toronto
Class of 2017
You my friend are wrong. The difference between zoo & mech are like night & day, you can afford to let zoo have 3-4 minion on the board and survive long enough to stabilize very easily. You cannot afford to have 3 or more mech minions on the board at once anytime during the match, they ramp up way faster than zoo ever did and their minions are so much cheaper mana wise and cause huge amounts of damage.
If a mech mage is allowed to drop 3 or more minions on the board, there is no stabilizing after that. They will freeze your answers, taunt their creatures, give their creatures extra AP, zoo is a joke compared to this disease of a class we call " mech mage ".
Mohamed_Dean, this is what I am running:
It's a simple variation of what I used to hit legend in the two previous seasons, with the only difference being Shieldmasters over Shredders and Earthern Ring Farseer over MCT.
The points are:
a) Consecration doesn't clear anything on its own. You need trading and this isn't always happening.
b) Wild Pyromancer is good with Equality on turn 4, so I need to find some room for it...although it's not the most reliable way to clear stuff, because it's a 2 card combo that you either have or haven't got before any card draw enters your game.
c) MCT isn't helping against Mechmage. If there are 4 minions on the board, you are probably losing afterwards.
d) Healing is fine if followed by a board clear. Probably one more healbot will make it to the list.
In a nutshell, I am not complaining about any deck being OP or anything. I am just trying to fish for ideas of tweaking a deck to fight the most popular ladder choice. If you can't help, move along, don't just twist my words and posts.
Also, if you suggest running Avenging Wrath+Equality to battle mechmage, move along to some other forum.
Of course it did, you said something negative about the mage class...
For my money, Paladin is the new Hunter. I built a Paladin Aggro deck to finish some quests and it's a wrecking ball in the Casual Room. I think I am 13-1 now with it. It's not going to win any tournies, but it has that same scent of FaceHunter, where the play is pretty independent of what the opponent is doing.
Decent decks for dabblers! Under 1000 dust, no Adventures required!
Druid Paladin Warrior Hunter
Alrighty, this is what I suggest:
Instead of 2 quartermasters, 1 is enough. If you are struggling to build up your board, 2 quartermasters won't do you any good sitting in your hand. They are reactive to your board. You dont want that at the moment, you want stability (which is building up your board).
So, if you were already doing well in building up your board, then I would say go for it and include 2 as you would be able to get value out of them. However, you are struggling to build up your board, so 1 quartermaster is enough to react to muster for battle.
Speaking of muster, I would keep two of them regardless, it is just really good value alone and you can use those 1/1 recruits to help stabilize or finish off minions that don't die to consecration. Also, your knife juggler has great synergy with it. So, you're fine in that regard.
I would also remove 1 big game hunter if you're encountering a lot of mech mages.
So, in the end:
-1 Quartermaster (1 remaining)
-1 Big Game Hunter (0 remaining)
and
+2 Wild Pyromancer
With these changes, you should be able to have a better time with clearing their board by turn 4 and have some opportunity to build up your board, while also having another backup plan in case they flood the board up again and you lose control (which you shouldnt really at that point). Try that out and let me know how it goes.
Hon. BSc. Medical Physics
University of Toronto
Class of 2017
i beat 2 mech mage with my Crusher Shaman
WTF
Tried with 2 Pyromancers, 2 Farseers and a Guardian of Kings on top of Healbot. Won 1 out of 13 games against mechmage. Sitting at rank 12 at the moment, I seem to face 1 of them every second match.
Tough season for pallies.
They did help, but I think that Handlock and mindrange mage are completely different decks than Paladin.
The thing with Paladin is if you don't have your cards for board clear, then you are kinda screwed (which you know already).
From what you're telling me now, it looks like you're just not reliably drawing into your board clears. So, lack of card draw is probably the main issue to why you're losing to mech mages.
Cult master, imo, is not reliable if mech mage has board control, since when cult master drops on the board, it will most likely die the next turn, and assuming the mage plays well, she will make sure to clear your board every turn.
Try finding some room for gnomish inventor and loot hoarder. Those two cards will help you.
Hon. BSc. Medical Physics
University of Toronto
Class of 2017
Obviously, it's not card draw. It's drawing the specific cards at the right time (i.e. before turn 4 or 5). Gnomish inventor is too late of a cantrip to make any difference. Probably Hammer of Wrath would be better if I went that route. Works with Pyro as well and removes something on the spot without waiting to be killed by a Shredder.
Anyway, I will keep testing and let you know.
Yes, that's what I meant. Anyway, hammer of wrath is definitely better than gnomish inventor in your case so yea I would use that.
Hon. BSc. Medical Physics
University of Toronto
Class of 2017
Mohamed, thks for all the words, would you share your build with us? Maybe that will help a lot!!
THks!