I've noticed that lately my Snapjaw has become a target. I think a lot of people expect it to be taunted so they focus on removing it quickly. This can be a good way to bait out removals, but can be a little slow and frustrating if you are desperate for a taunter on the board.
Anyone have any tips for the priest match up? I have been playing this list exactly up to rank 4 but every time I see priest I might as well just hit concede... Typically I manage to keep the game reasonable but just can't push through enough damage before running out of cards and fatiguing out.
I've noticed that lately my Snapjaw has become a target. I think a lot of people expect it to be taunted so they focus on removing it quickly. This can be a good way to bait out removals, but can be a little slow and frustrating if you are desperate for a taunter on the board.
That's a good point. Perhaps timing is the key. Maybe dropping it a turn before a Savannah would be reasonable.
@ Legacy: As much as I love this build, I haven't gotten past rank 10. Either I get a bad streak, or I get kind of bored of the same thing and go play my customs (shaman and non-zoo or handlock warlock).
I lose a lot more games with those :) But I have a lot of fun testing, tweaking and playing around.
Point being: I get shafted by priests in the upper tier (13-18) simply based on the RNG of their taking copies of my cards. Was dominating once until they grabbed UTH along with an timber wolf. I didn't have any large minions up...
I am guessing they play very differently at those better rankings?
@ Legacy: I am guessing they play very differently at those better rankings?
Not really... I notice a lot less random decks... I haven't seen mage at all in few days since I got off of the rank 9-7 hump I was on. Mostly it's zoo, other hunters, miracle, some warrior and priests. I'll rarely bump into a paladin or handlock... The main thing is you see a lot less variety of decks and very few true play mistakes so you can't really bait out bad plays, which is why I think I got stuck around rank 8 when I was using traps and suddenly shot up when I took them out.
@koopa: I used to run Leeroy when I used traps, he is great with unleash or just as an extra Killing Shot but I have taken them out for better consistency now... I may consider trying them again though to see if it helps against priest.
I haven't tried traps in the deck yet, but I will tomorrow once Mad Scientist is out.
I really like the random one-ofs in this trapless version since you draw so many cards, and would even recommend dropping the Snapjaw for an Ironbeak Owl since you can usually find it when you need a silence.
And Leeroy isn't really where you want to be in this deck; you're not THAT aggressive and you can turn the corner and kill them very quickly with Kill Command already without sacrificing flexibility.
What are you guys talking about? Unleash the Hounds is your best card by far, and the only card that matters against Zoo. Keep it in your opener, play 2 Trackings so that you can find it faster. If you open 1-drop, 2-drop with this deck you can legitimately fight the Zoo deck for board control, plus you get to draw way more cards than they can for way cheaper while putting out threats when you play Buzzard into Unleash or a bunch of cheap minions in the mid game. The matchup is very favorable for midrange Hunter.
Also, Tracking is one of the best cards in the game, why would you ever cut one? Discarding 2 cards is literally irrelevant; you draw your entire deck in 1/3 of games and never come up short in damage after doing so.
No doubt, UtH is a fantastic card. But, the primary reason that I don't keep it to open against Zoo is that it is far more valuable after turn 4, or especially after turn 5. In my experience, you are better off having three/four cards that are playable in the first three turns in order to keep up tempo. While UtH is technically playable on turn 3, it's going to be a complete waste. It's better held until you can get massive value + card draw, etc. The more low health minions they have up when you play it, the better. (And just to be clear, I often will keep UtH in other match ups, especially when those first few turns aren't as crucial.)
While tracking is also a great card, losing a total of four cards permanently can be very painful. Card draw isn't the issue here. Let's say you desperately need UtH. You play tracking and get the choice of UtH, Hunter's Mark, and Savannah Highmane. Great, you just got your UtH, but you've also now lost two key cards. I'm not saying that tracking isn't incredible (it is), I'm just saying that the cost can be high. If you want to play two, go for it. I'm just not a fan of taking that kind of chance twice. It's the same reason I'm not a huge fan of running dual Soulfire + dual Doomguard in Warlock decks.
I haven't tried traps in the deck yet, but I will tomorrow once Mad Scientist is out.
I really like the random one-ofs in this trapless version since you draw so many cards, and would even recommend dropping the Snapjaw for an Ironbeak Owl since you can usually find it when you need a silence.
And Leeroy isn't really where you want to be in this deck; you're not THAT aggressive and you can turn the corner and kill them very quickly with Kill Command already without sacrificing flexibility.
I have tried some traps, but wasn't thrilled with the results. I prefer the way this deck plays without them. But you are dead-on about Mad Scientist. That card has the potential to be huge. It could change the meta much more than many people seem to think. Or not. My guess would be that it won't be huge right away (playing with secrets is a mechanic that not many people are used to, and it takes some time to get comfortable and be effective with it), but over time it's impact will be very significant. At least I hope so, secrets are fun and are terribly underused at the moment. They are more of a niche, rather than something that most people see as valuable. Outside of Ice Block and Hunter's wielding Eaglehorn Bows, you almost never see them.
I would like to work an Owl into this deck, but I'm not giving up on Oasis Snapjaw just yet. He's won me far too many games. And as RubedoHawk said, now that most players have been burned by Snapjaw+Houndmaster, people will often aggressively target him, making the board safer for bigger plays. On the other hand, I have no doubt that Owls will be tremendously more valuable after the Construct Quarter cards are available. Right now, they are not strictly mandatory (I'm hovering around Rank 6 without them, and that's also with not having had much time to play in the last few days). But... that will almost certainly change by tomorrow morning. I guess it's time to start experimenting again.
I couldn't agree with you more about Leeroy. I don't think he's completely unplayable, but there are too many options that are just much better in this deck.
Anyone have any tips for the priest match up? I have been playing this list exactly up to rank 4 but every time I see priest I might as well just hit concede... Typically I manage to keep the game reasonable but just can't push through enough damage before running out of cards and fatiguing out.
I have to admit that Priest is the Kryptonite for this deck for me as well. Thankfully, I don't see a ton of them. I wouldn't quite say that it's an auto-concede, but they are definitely an enormous annoyance. For me it feels like a coin flip. Everything depends on what they get with Thought Steal and what I get with my Webspinners. I would love to come up with a more consistent approach for them, but it has eluded me so far.
Is anybody else having much success with them? I'm pretty sure most of us are struggling with that match up.
I haven't lost to a Priest yet (only 3 or 4 games, but still) with the strategy of not getting blown out by Holy Nova, keeping his board clear every turn to consistently force him to have an answer, and saving Kill Commands for the 12+ damage burn finish (with hero power).
Value Buzzards are very good, eg turn 6 play Buzzard, Webspinner, Haunted Creeper, Timber Wolf. They have to deal with it with AOE at no loss of cards to you. Also, Hunter's Mark wrecks their early game Blademaster+Circle and Dark Cultist loses to Animal Companion.
Highmane isn't that great since they can Shadow Word: Death it and sweep the hyenas easily, but it's still really awesome when you're ahead because it pressures their mana and gives you another turn to bash with the rest of your dorks. Loatheb also fills this role of pushing the lead when you have it.
I would like to work an Owl into this deck, but I'm not giving up on Oasis Snapjaw just yet. He's won me far too many games. And as RubedoHawk said, now that most players have been burned by Snapjaw+Houndmaster, people will often aggressively target him, making the board safer for bigger plays. On the other hand, I have no doubt that Owls will be tremendously more valuable after the Construct Quarter cards are available. Right now, they are not strictly mandatory (I'm hovering around Rank 6 without them, and that's also with not having had much time to play in the last few days). But... that will almost certainly change by tomorrow morning. I guess it's time to start experimenting again.
I took out 1 Tundra Wolf for 1 Owl, so far that has been working but I may need to find room for a second soon. It's great in a lot of matchups especially when only running 1 deadly shot.
I haven't lost to a Priest yet (only 3 or 4 games, but still) with the strategy of not getting blown out by Holy Nova, keeping his board clear every turn to consistently force him to have an answer, and saving Kill Commands for the 12+ damage burn finish (with hero power).
Value Buzzards are very good, eg turn 6 play Buzzard, Webspinner, Haunted Creeper, Timber Wolf. They have to deal with it with AOE at no loss of cards to you. Also, Hunter's Mark wrecks their early game Blademaster+Circle and Dark Cultist loses to Animal Companion.
Highmane isn't that great since they can Shadow Word: Death it and sweep the hyenas easily, but it's still really awesome when you're ahead because it pressures their mana and gives you another turn to bash with the rest of your dorks. Loatheb also fills this role of pushing the lead when you have it.
It is literally that they steal great cards. That will change, just from a luck standpoint.
People really overrate Priest stealing cards. They might pull a synergy card that sucks for them (any card with "beast" on it, which is 1/3 of your deck), and you only have 6 good cards for them anyways (Highmane, Unleash that they don't even get to draw from, Animal Companion). Starting today they shouldn't be playing as many Thoughtsteals anyways since Dark Cultist is a far superior card.
As everyone has said, you have to play this like a control deck and think about all of your outs. Loatheb and Stranglethorn fill out my curve very well and are practically never dead cards. I like the idea of kodo, but I don't like how you can't always get value out of it. Loatheb can be a very difficult card to remove on 5, making your highmane on 6 very difficult to deal with since you'll have two large minions on the board.
I've toyed with removing the bow and explosive trap. I'd probably consider adding a dire alpha wolf +1 other item (have to think about it). I'm not ready to remove freezing trap yet either. That card can really swing the tempo and even win games. Also, to the people who have suggested removing 1 tracking, I can truly understand that. Again, this is played like a control deck and if played correctly, you should not have to be constantly digging for cards.
What are people's thoughts on the hyena's? It seems too situational for me, but I guess it can draw a silence, thus preserving your highmane. I also feel two timber wolves is overkill and can result in having too many dead cards at once.
As for the matchups, priests have also countered me the most with control warriors being 50/50. As for zoo, I'm probably about at a 60% win-rate against them. Even the games I lose are really close and that's something that is difficult to say for a lot of decks.
I like having a Hyena so you don't run out of threats after drawing your deck. The combo with Buzzard-Unleash that makes him huge also wins some games for very low opportunity cost.
Re: priest. I agree. Many times in the past they get completely screwed by their pulls. but recently they have had a good streak of luck. that is all. It will balance out.
I dont think you want King Mukla... I have gotten it off of Webspinner a few times and it's often not too helpful unless I am already winning. If you insist on using it though I suppose either an Animal Companion or Snapjaw could be removed.
I haven't lost to a Priest yet (only 3 or 4 games, but still) with the strategy of not getting blown out by Holy Nova, keeping his board clear every turn to consistently force him to have an answer, and saving Kill Commands for the 12+ damage burn finish (with hero power).
I don't get too many of them either, but as I said, they always feel like a coin toss. I'll try going to the face with the Kill Commands. I normally use them exclusively on minions, but saving them for a burst could definitely make sense here.
I took out 1 Tundra Wolf for 1 Owl, so far that has been working but I may need to find room for a second soon. It's great in a lot of matchups especially when only running 1 deadly shot.
Tundra Wolf makes sense as a swap out for an Owl. Just be very careful with your remaining one. While he can be a dead (or at least not very useful) card at times, he's a lifesaver in the right situation. If I find myself absolutely needing an owl, I may give this a try.
People really overrate Priest stealing cards. They might pull a synergy card that sucks for them (any card with "beast" on it, which is 1/3 of your deck), and you only have 6 good cards for them anyways (Highmane, Unleash that they don't even get to draw from, Animal Companion). Starting today they shouldn't be playing as many Thoughtsteals anyways since Dark Cultist is a far superior card.
This is exactly why I keep saying it feels like a coin toss. I'm sure there have been plenty of times where they ended up getting a Snapjaw and a Hyena. But the ones that stick in your memory are when they get a well-timed Deadly Shot or a Kill Command and a Webspinner (which then pulls a King Krush, or some other such nonsense). The whole card stealing thing is just an annoying (but fun) mechanic. Something about getting beaten with your own cards just makes it hurt that much more.
I've toyed with removing the bow and explosive trap. I'd probably consider adding a dire alpha wolf +1 other item (have to think about it). I'm not ready to remove freezing trap yet either. That card can really swing the tempo and even win games. Also, to the people who have suggested removing 1 tracking, I can truly understand that. Again, this is played like a control deck and if played correctly, you should not have to be constantly digging for cards.
What are people's thoughts on the hyena's? It seems too situational for me, but I guess it can draw a silence, thus preserving your highmane. I also feel two timber wolves is overkill and can result in having too many dead cards at once.
As for the matchups, priests have also countered me the most with control warriors being 50/50. As for zoo, I'm probably about at a 60% win-rate against them. Even the games I lose are really close and that's something that is difficult to say for a lot of decks.
I really like Freezing Trap as well, I just haven't found the right spot for it in this deck. Mad Scientist may well change that, we'll see. As for Dire Wolf Alpha, I'm a recent convert. He can be amazing with UtH (just make sure to keep his right side open if you plan on using UtH anytime soon). If you can drop a Tundra Wolf, or maybe even a Leokk in there as well... it's lights out.
I personally really love having the Hyena in here. When I first started playing Hunter I was fascinated with trying to turn him into a massive, game-ending monster. Then, of course, I quickly learned that he rarely survives to land a hit. But that is exactly why I keep him now. I would say better than 80% of the time I use him as removal bait. But every once in a while (especially if my Rhino sticks) he gets a chance to be that wrecking ball.
On the match ups, I would say we're just about on the same page. Priests are annoying. Control Warriors (especially those with proper, Legendary loaded decks) can be brutal, but the player's skill level plays a huge role. Zoo is an easy win at this point. I just saw so many of them, for so long, that I feel like I've got that match up pretty well refined. I couldn't give you an accurate win rate, but it's pretty high. I remember getting aggravated because I lost to one last week. If I'm remembering individual losses, that's a pretty good sign that they are not happening often.
I've noticed that lately my Snapjaw has become a target. I think a lot of people expect it to be taunted so they focus on removing it quickly. This can be a good way to bait out removals, but can be a little slow and frustrating if you are desperate for a taunter on the board.
Anyone have any tips for the priest match up? I have been playing this list exactly up to rank 4 but every time I see priest I might as well just hit concede... Typically I manage to keep the game reasonable but just can't push through enough damage before running out of cards and fatiguing out.
That's a good point. Perhaps timing is the key. Maybe dropping it a turn before a Savannah would be reasonable.
@ Legacy: As much as I love this build, I haven't gotten past rank 10. Either I get a bad streak, or I get kind of bored of the same thing and go play my customs (shaman and non-zoo or handlock warlock).
I lose a lot more games with those :) But I have a lot of fun testing, tweaking and playing around.
Point being: I get shafted by priests in the upper tier (13-18) simply based on the RNG of their taking copies of my cards. Was dominating once until they grabbed UTH along with an timber wolf. I didn't have any large minions up...
I am guessing they play very differently at those better rankings?
Not really... I notice a lot less random decks... I haven't seen mage at all in few days since I got off of the rank 9-7 hump I was on. Mostly it's zoo, other hunters, miracle, some warrior and priests. I'll rarely bump into a paladin or handlock... The main thing is you see a lot less variety of decks and very few true play mistakes so you can't really bait out bad plays, which is why I think I got stuck around rank 8 when I was using traps and suddenly shot up when I took them out.
@koopa: I used to run Leeroy when I used traps, he is great with unleash or just as an extra Killing Shot but I have taken them out for better consistency now... I may consider trying them again though to see if it helps against priest.
I haven't tried traps in the deck yet, but I will tomorrow once Mad Scientist is out.
I really like the random one-ofs in this trapless version since you draw so many cards, and would even recommend dropping the Snapjaw for an Ironbeak Owl since you can usually find it when you need a silence.
And Leeroy isn't really where you want to be in this deck; you're not THAT aggressive and you can turn the corner and kill them very quickly with Kill Command already without sacrificing flexibility.
No doubt, UtH is a fantastic card. But, the primary reason that I don't keep it to open against Zoo is that it is far more valuable after turn 4, or especially after turn 5. In my experience, you are better off having three/four cards that are playable in the first three turns in order to keep up tempo. While UtH is technically playable on turn 3, it's going to be a complete waste. It's better held until you can get massive value + card draw, etc. The more low health minions they have up when you play it, the better. (And just to be clear, I often will keep UtH in other match ups, especially when those first few turns aren't as crucial.)
While tracking is also a great card, losing a total of four cards permanently can be very painful. Card draw isn't the issue here. Let's say you desperately need UtH. You play tracking and get the choice of UtH, Hunter's Mark, and Savannah Highmane. Great, you just got your UtH, but you've also now lost two key cards. I'm not saying that tracking isn't incredible (it is), I'm just saying that the cost can be high. If you want to play two, go for it. I'm just not a fan of taking that kind of chance twice. It's the same reason I'm not a huge fan of running dual Soulfire + dual Doomguard in Warlock decks.
I have tried some traps, but wasn't thrilled with the results. I prefer the way this deck plays without them. But you are dead-on about Mad Scientist. That card has the potential to be huge. It could change the meta much more than many people seem to think. Or not. My guess would be that it won't be huge right away (playing with secrets is a mechanic that not many people are used to, and it takes some time to get comfortable and be effective with it), but over time it's impact will be very significant. At least I hope so, secrets are fun and are terribly underused at the moment. They are more of a niche, rather than something that most people see as valuable. Outside of Ice Block and Hunter's wielding Eaglehorn Bows, you almost never see them.
I would like to work an Owl into this deck, but I'm not giving up on Oasis Snapjaw just yet. He's won me far too many games. And as RubedoHawk said, now that most players have been burned by Snapjaw+Houndmaster, people will often aggressively target him, making the board safer for bigger plays. On the other hand, I have no doubt that Owls will be tremendously more valuable after the Construct Quarter cards are available. Right now, they are not strictly mandatory (I'm hovering around Rank 6 without them, and that's also with not having had much time to play in the last few days). But... that will almost certainly change by tomorrow morning. I guess it's time to start experimenting again.
I couldn't agree with you more about Leeroy. I don't think he's completely unplayable, but there are too many options that are just much better in this deck.
I have to admit that Priest is the Kryptonite for this deck for me as well. Thankfully, I don't see a ton of them. I wouldn't quite say that it's an auto-concede, but they are definitely an enormous annoyance. For me it feels like a coin flip. Everything depends on what they get with Thought Steal and what I get with my Webspinners. I would love to come up with a more consistent approach for them, but it has eluded me so far.
Is anybody else having much success with them? I'm pretty sure most of us are struggling with that match up.
I haven't lost to a Priest yet (only 3 or 4 games, but still) with the strategy of not getting blown out by Holy Nova, keeping his board clear every turn to consistently force him to have an answer, and saving Kill Commands for the 12+ damage burn finish (with hero power).
Value Buzzards are very good, eg turn 6 play Buzzard, Webspinner, Haunted Creeper, Timber Wolf. They have to deal with it with AOE at no loss of cards to you. Also, Hunter's Mark wrecks their early game Blademaster+Circle and Dark Cultist loses to Animal Companion.
Highmane isn't that great since they can Shadow Word: Death it and sweep the hyenas easily, but it's still really awesome when you're ahead because it pressures their mana and gives you another turn to bash with the rest of your dorks. Loatheb also fills this role of pushing the lead when you have it.
I took out 1 Tundra Wolf for 1 Owl, so far that has been working but I may need to find room for a second soon. It's great in a lot of matchups especially when only running 1 deadly shot.
It is literally that they steal great cards. That will change, just from a luck standpoint.
People really overrate Priest stealing cards. They might pull a synergy card that sucks for them (any card with "beast" on it, which is 1/3 of your deck), and you only have 6 good cards for them anyways (Highmane, Unleash that they don't even get to draw from, Animal Companion). Starting today they shouldn't be playing as many Thoughtsteals anyways since Dark Cultist is a far superior card.
My deck is fairly similiar to this. I run the following:
-1 stampeding kodo, -1 dire wolf, -1 Scavenging hyena, -1 Stonetusk boar, -1 Timber wolf
+1 loatheb, +1 eaglehorn bow, +1 explosive trap, +1 freezing trap, +1 stranglethorn tiger
As everyone has said, you have to play this like a control deck and think about all of your outs. Loatheb and Stranglethorn fill out my curve very well and are practically never dead cards. I like the idea of kodo, but I don't like how you can't always get value out of it. Loatheb can be a very difficult card to remove on 5, making your highmane on 6 very difficult to deal with since you'll have two large minions on the board.
I've toyed with removing the bow and explosive trap. I'd probably consider adding a dire alpha wolf +1 other item (have to think about it). I'm not ready to remove freezing trap yet either. That card can really swing the tempo and even win games. Also, to the people who have suggested removing 1 tracking, I can truly understand that. Again, this is played like a control deck and if played correctly, you should not have to be constantly digging for cards.
What are people's thoughts on the hyena's? It seems too situational for me, but I guess it can draw a silence, thus preserving your highmane. I also feel two timber wolves is overkill and can result in having too many dead cards at once.
As for the matchups, priests have also countered me the most with control warriors being 50/50. As for zoo, I'm probably about at a 60% win-rate against them. Even the games I lose are really close and that's something that is difficult to say for a lot of decks.
I like having a Hyena so you don't run out of threats after drawing your deck. The combo with Buzzard-Unleash that makes him huge also wins some games for very low opportunity cost.
Re: priest. I agree. Many times in the past they get completely screwed by their pulls. but recently they have had a good streak of luck. that is all. It will balance out.
Please could someone tell me what to take out to add in King Mukla?
Also how is this deck now the new quarter has been released? Is it worth adding an extra Flare for a Tracking?
I dont think you want King Mukla... I have gotten it off of Webspinner a few times and it's often not too helpful unless I am already winning. If you insist on using it though I suppose either an Animal Companion or Snapjaw could be removed.
I don't get too many of them either, but as I said, they always feel like a coin toss. I'll try going to the face with the Kill Commands. I normally use them exclusively on minions, but saving them for a burst could definitely make sense here.
Tundra Wolf makes sense as a swap out for an Owl. Just be very careful with your remaining one. While he can be a dead (or at least not very useful) card at times, he's a lifesaver in the right situation. If I find myself absolutely needing an owl, I may give this a try.
This is exactly why I keep saying it feels like a coin toss. I'm sure there have been plenty of times where they ended up getting a Snapjaw and a Hyena. But the ones that stick in your memory are when they get a well-timed Deadly Shot or a Kill Command and a Webspinner (which then pulls a King Krush, or some other such nonsense). The whole card stealing thing is just an annoying (but fun) mechanic. Something about getting beaten with your own cards just makes it hurt that much more.
I really like Freezing Trap as well, I just haven't found the right spot for it in this deck. Mad Scientist may well change that, we'll see. As for Dire Wolf Alpha, I'm a recent convert. He can be amazing with UtH (just make sure to keep his right side open if you plan on using UtH anytime soon). If you can drop a Tundra Wolf, or maybe even a Leokk in there as well... it's lights out.
I personally really love having the Hyena in here. When I first started playing Hunter I was fascinated with trying to turn him into a massive, game-ending monster. Then, of course, I quickly learned that he rarely survives to land a hit. But that is exactly why I keep him now. I would say better than 80% of the time I use him as removal bait. But every once in a while (especially if my Rhino sticks) he gets a chance to be that wrecking ball.
On the match ups, I would say we're just about on the same page. Priests are annoying. Control Warriors (especially those with proper, Legendary loaded decks) can be brutal, but the player's skill level plays a huge role. Zoo is an easy win at this point. I just saw so many of them, for so long, that I feel like I've got that match up pretty well refined. I couldn't give you an accurate win rate, but it's pretty high. I remember getting aggravated because I lost to one last week. If I'm remembering individual losses, that's a pretty good sign that they are not happening often.
Has anybody faced "new" Priests on the (higher ranks in) ladder yet? I have been testing a lot yesterday, so I didn't ladder.
I never thought Priest was a hard matchup, just an annoying one. But if they play more minions now (Dark Cultist), the matchup should actually get easier. Animal Companion and Houndmaster (even without buffing something) are probably the MVP in this matchup, as the 4 attack from Misha, Huffer and Houndmaster are crucial, especially with Dark Cultist incoming. Leokk also trades ok with Dark Cultist. An once buffed Scavenging Hyena (4/3, i.e. run a Stonetusk Boar in a Hunter's Marked minion) also helps a lot.
Concerning King Mukla: He is great, there just isn't any room for him :-(
PS: Do you remember Hunter's fake leaked Naxxramas class card, the Bow of the Elite: http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/12476-naxxramas-hunter-card-leaked-fake
Don't get me wong, I don't want to miss Webspinner, but Bow of the Elite in addition as a 1-of would actually be great for board control in this deck!
- senti