[Wild Guide] MillZoth Rogue (legend)
- Last updated Apr 18, 2019 (Rise of Shadows)
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Wild
- 15 Minions
- 14 Spells
- Deck Type: Ranked Deck
- Deck Archetype: Mill Rogue
- Crafting Cost: 7460
- Dust Needed: Loading Collection
- Created: 11/6/2018 (Boomsday)
- HackFin
- Registered User
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- 16
- 53
- 121
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Battle Tag:
HackFin
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Region:
EU
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Total Deck Rating
112
April 18th:
I didn't have a lot of time to play lately and all I did was putting in a scheme for one copy of gang-up. The meta did not change too much but the Big Warlock brings a deck which can outtempo you and you should always keep vanish now when facing a Warlock and Vargoth gives Big Priest a cheap and dangerous minion making the a highly favourite matchup for us a bit harder.
Maybe somebody has better ideas and more time and can give advices to us Mill'Zoth players :-)
Wishing you all a good time burning cards!
HackFin
February 17th:
First time top 100 legend with this list :-)
https://imgur.com/a/Aa8mTNo
Update February 16th 2019
Hello friends, I came back for some updates as there are still people writing me PMs about the list and it is actually the 4th most played rogue list on ladder now, yay :-)
I will keep the texts that are still making sense and replace some matchups texts. Greetings, HackFin
At the moment I am testing a few replacements. So far the best feels to have that one Gluttonous Ooze for the Rotten Applebaum, because it is only three mana and helps against most aggressive decks and also deals with CubeLock which is still around.
This month I went 31-25 with MillZoth between rank 4 and legend (I rotated decks of RenoLock, MechaThunLock, and few games of Jade Druid and Odd Warrior) :
https://imgur.com/a/20Y2mgE
Some notes on the data: It looks like quite a few people keep shadowstep, gang up and lab recruiter in the starting hand. The only matchups that can make sense is against warlock, priest and maybe druid and also only if you already got your coldlight oracle. Given how rarely these requirements are met the percentage looks far too high. Especially for lab recruiter, which is pretty much only in the deck for the infinite late game and very seldom to shuffle your first oracle.
Another hint on a mistake I saw in some replays: NEVER play deathlord early against big priests! As this is a more complicated deck the risk of brain farts is high ;)
Feel free to share your experiences!
Replays of rank 1 5 stars into legend games:
November 2018:
https://hsreplay.net/replay/zVUjgyuAdvKybRAwUpB2Mo
February 2019:
https://hsreplay.net/replay/5XyEKdSTgwfJzP8SJiMHr5
Hello folks,
I am HackFin from EU and I started HS in March 2016. I reach legend (in standard mode) like every second or third month depending on the spare time I got.
Wild mode is my playground when I am not up for hardcore laddering in standard. Here I test fun decks and go for different homebrew decks. I remember watching Savjz in 2016 playing a Mill Rogue in standard and I enjoyed it so much that I keep making variations of this deck since then and I posted one of the lists here and now it was time for an update :)
MillZoth Rogue
A deck revolving around either milling with Coldlight Oracle or infinite board refill with N'Zoth, the Corruptor
This deck combines two strategies in the old known mill rogue. With this version, thanks to lab recruiter with DK, you can outvalue any deck out there now with shuffling up to infinite numbers of N'Zoth in your deck.
This season I went from rank 9 to 5 with a 62% winrate. (including a lucky streak in the end against three druids).
Getting harder after that of course - but it is mostly because the high number of even shamans and the occasional odd rogues. The other matchups are all positive so far (even hunter, because you can outvalue Rexxar).If I find the time I can write a small guide. I did^^
Enjoy!
HackFin
Very nice that some people already upvoted, I appreciate it a lot!
Matchups and mulligans
Druid (medium):
I have to change this matchup because now there are some token druid around that can be really quick and kill you too fast. But all the slower druids are easy fodder for us now.
Mulligan for: Backstab, Fan of Knives, Coldlight Oracle, Deathlord and also keep Doomsayer because it is not terrible against their early drops and just in case it is an aggressive druid you really want that.
Okay to keep: Elven Minstrel
Example how to win against (pretty much any) combo druid: https://hsreplay.net/replay/dDSGUuW899usK2ktLfSVj7
Hunter (slightly unfavoured):
I changed this to slightly unfavoured because I mostly faced aggressive mech hunters lately and their damage output is quite high. If there were less of these hunter is pretty balanced and even favoured when you the midrange decks.
Your game plan is to put as many taunts as possible in theirs way and keep searching for your N'Zoth, which usually finishes these games. If they got their Rexxar rolling you should try everything to use Shadowstep on N'Zoth (which is a plan for all the value matchups).
Mulligan for: Doomsayer, Backstab, Deathlord, Mistress of Mixtures and also Fan of Knives.
Okay to keep: Elven Minstrel
Example how to win against secret hunter: https://hsreplay.net/replay/uwKRmQuQLG7Yo6F7yAEyE8
Mage (unfavoured against tempo, highly favoured against control):
The Mana Wyrm nerf helps, but the tempo mages are still around and they hurt. If you face a Reno or Big mage you are good and should win.
So you should always expect tempo.
Mulligan for: Deathlord and Backstab and pray.
In one game I made it to N'zoth and it was amazing, but usually you die before turn 10.
Example how to win against tempo mage: https://hsreplay.net/replay/6qP4YuYXHA82Eo6ZeZeW2U
Paladin (mostly favoured):
You don't find many paladins at the moment. I went 5-1 8-1 so far, but it feels kind of wrong that this deck is heavily favoured against odd paladin. Need to test this more.
But what I can say already is that Doomsayers improve this matchup a lot! And Fan of Knives of course.
-> Update February 2019: The matchup is favoured. All my stats tell me that they have little chance if you make sure that they don't get they value turn 5.
Mulligan for: Fan of Knives, Mistress of Mixtures, Doomsayer and Backstab
Against aggressive paladins you win once N'Zoth comes down or if they draw so much you can even mill them to death before turn 10 sometimes.
Example how to win against odd paladin: https://hsreplay.net/replay/MFqtJRpSoa7TgiGP2qvoYL
Priest (favoured):
Like 90% of the priests are big priests so I stick to the "favoured".
Why?
As long as they don't get Barnes into Ysharrj you just keep milling them while making sure to get Sap and Vanish. Just never kill Ragnaros and you should be fine.
Update February 2019: Now with Reno Priest around it is even better - MillZoth crushes Priest!
If you have to go for board make sure you Shadowstep your N'Zoth ;)
At the moment I am 12-5 against priest. And one loss was against a Velen + Malygos combo priest.
Example how to win against big priest: https://hsreplay.net/replay/M6Lk8tVe9XSxhncZyoGTYQ
Rogue (unfavoured):
Update February 2019: Most Rogues are pirate kingsbane and their damage output can be insane. Deathlords, Fan of Knives, Backstab and then into Sludge Belcher is needed to stay alive - one of the main reasons why I am testing Gluttonous Ooze now. Interestingly I won two games today when they went very aggressively and milled their own deck and underestimated the mill damage :-D
Example how to win against odd rogue: https://hsreplay.net/replay/UCNAPhBsKySFVd7Um6RULA
Shaman (slightly unfavoured):
Update February 2019: At least their early damage potential decreased a little and give a tiny bit more breathing room., but it is still an unfavoured matchup.
Against even shaman you need the perfect curve and your Backstab from Doomsayer into Deathlord into more taunts and for the midgame you might need a Preperation plus Vanish. The problem is, even if you make it to N'Zoth there is Devolve.
Terrible matchup! Queue dodge it when you faced one - but there are many, which brings this decks winratio down a lot!
Mulligan for: Doomsayer, Deathlord and Backstab
Example how to win against even shaman: https://hsreplay.net/replay/zVUjgyuAdvKybRAwUpB2Mo
Warlock (highly favoured):
Reno and other control warlocks are really no problem, together with Shudderwock it is the easiest matchup. They very often surrender as soon as they realise you are mill rogue. Just make sure you can sap Mal'Ganis the turn you mill him them to death. It is the only card that can stop your lethal damage.
And then there is Zoo which is kind of the best among the bad tempo matchups. They usually can't deal with Doomsayer without using important ressources and don't have tools like devolve, so they lose once you get to your N'Zoth. I mean, it is still not a good matchup but much more doable than even shaman and odd rogue.
Example how to win against Reno Warlock: https://hsreplay.net/replay/3enBz47LVVq2EvnGChwdz3
Warrior (fairly favoured): (had to change this, because suddenly pirate warriors pop up more)As there are barely any pirate warriors around this matchup is favoured. The control warriors can't win against the mill and also DMH is not saving them because they can't go infinite the way you can!So even if there are not many pirate warriors you should still mulligan against them. Like the other tempo matchups you really want Doomsayer. Mistress of Mixtures, Deathlord and Backstab are the other cards you want to look for. If you got a Doomsayer and one of the other cards you can also keep one of your five mana taunts. But like all the other aggressive matchups this is looking mostly grim for you. My winrate is at 36% against pirate warrior.
Example how to win against pirate warrior: https://hsreplay.net/replay/sAfoAEwgPNqBkFHkTTA8Xc
The summary: Awesome against anything that can't kill you quickly and vulnerable to early damage. Sometimes I feel kind of bad to punish the control players and give wins to lame aggro players, but the deck is just so much fun to play and the pleasure when you win against aggro is even greater.
Cards to consider
February 2019: Gluttonous Ooze
At the moment my favoured addition. Can replace Rotten Applebaum, Deathlord, or Fan of Knives
February 2019: Walk the Plank
I tested it a little, but it didn't feel good enough, because there are not many even warlocks atm. Against them it is a really good card - and it is okay against even Shaman, but I also didn't find too many on ladder this month.
Azure Drake
pro: high quality card buffing your damage spells
con: another 5 mana card plus drawing cards, making the matchups weird when you want to get rid of hand cards (played it in a version without Elven Minstrel and with: Prince Valanar
pro: can be game winning against some aggro decks
con: you can't play Minstrels which are the best card draw rogue you can get. Furthermore I dies to Soulfire and against divine shield without healing you (and that happened far too often so I changed back to the Minstrel version)
Dark Iron Skulker
pro: clears totems and silver hand recruits
con: clunky in many matchups, board impact against odd shaman very often not enough and the odd paladin matchup is pretty good already anyways
Emperor Thaurissan
pro: really fun against control decks enabling some really early complete mill options
con: very often you just don't find the time to play it and against decks you can it is mostly just a win-more card. you can totally try it, it is insane fun, but makes your bad matchups even worse.
Unstable Ghoul
I must say I did not test it enough, but it is totally a reasonable card.
pro: Improves odd paladin matchup even more and is strong againt all the other aggressive matchups. can replace the Mistress of Mixtures or a version without Doomsayer
con: not easy to find a spot for it, but as I said, I didn't test it a lot.
Gang Up vs Lab Recruiter
Reason #1 for Gang-Up: You can not prep Lab Recruiter!
Reason #2: You don't really want to draw Lab Recruiters with Elven Minstrel against aggro.
Reason #3: You REALY can't prep Lab Recruiter (you will understand you important this can be when you played this for a bit)
Rotten Applebaum yes or no?
pro: yes it is mostly worse on turn 5 than Sludge Belcher, but it comes in handy in longer games when you desperately need a few more HP to survive after N'Zoth.
con: it makes the deck a bit more clunky and in some matchups (like mirror and Kingsbane) you really want to get rid of hand cards)
Mistress of Mixtures
pro: good against early aggression, extra HP in late game and is a 1 mana activator for your minstrels
con: doesn't really help against even shaman because it dies without giving you any health against many things. zoo can use it as a heal activator.
Eviscerate
pro: kills things.
con: what to replace? need activator. might find its home in a version without Doomsayer or only in the non-N'Zoth versions (but then Kingsbane is better anyways)
Unfortunately I don't really have the equipment for quality videos, but I hope the text help people pilot the deck.
Because I played a kind of Mill Rogue since nearly two years now I might forget some things in the guide - please leave me a comment when something is not clear!
Another thing: Try to not get frustrated when you get some games after another and you just can't do anything to win them. My winrate is below 60% now too - this is not a deck for a quick climb if you were looking for that ;)
Is this deck good in current meta? Asia server is full of quest mages and I have terrible wr against them. Do you have any tips?
I am considering about dirty rat in this deck... do you think it will work against some contol decks?
Thanks for the comment! I don't have much time to play lately, so I can't say too much, but if you don't face tons of kingsbane rogues then it should work out in the current meta. But I wasn't playing mill rogue this month so I am not too much of a help right now.
It should still be very strong against control decks, yes, but it is not the safe big priest killer anymore because of Vargoth.
Please share your experience if you test it, I hope I can play some more too next week :-)
@HackFin Will you try to build a mill nzoth rogue after preparation nerf? it shreds the deck (i mean 4 mana vanish and 1 mana fan sounds like a nightmare). I like fellow Mill'Zoth Players! We should unite!
Hey man! Actually I started this morning to think about it. I played less than 100 games this month on ladder so I am not very up to date, but I can imagine that odd warrior comes back with the extra late game due to a 9 mana Elysiana. This means a strong enemy for odd paladin might decrease their number (and that is the main reason why the fan is so important). Furthermore Kingsbane rogue gets a hard hit which was a very good matchup for the paladins.
If the Paladins really decrease in number as well as Kingsbane rogue then the time might be ripe for MillRogue again and this is what we can hope for :D
When I was looking at the list I started thinking about a more minion heavy list or maybe bring evis or shiv again to minimise the nerf impact on prep. So we can think about adding taunts, tech cards or if the meta becomes very control heavy again go for quicker mill rogues without N'Zoth which would be my least favourite route to go :-D
Hi hackfin, great deck mate thank you !
I m new at playing mill rogue but I love it, and even i ve dusted lots of legs and epics for it :D I m ranked 5 right now and I have very similar deck of yours. But I have trouble with shuffle rogues. After academic espionage shuffled their deck two times, do i have a chance to win?
And I wanna ask, how about mind control tech? I think it can be nice against token, murloc, zoolock, baku paladin etc. Even control players want to empty their hands to spread lots of minion into field.
Thanks in advance
Hey Poncik, nice to hear you enjoy milling :-D
So against other infinite decks you need to make sure to keep lab recruiter for after Valeera to shuffle copies of itself and then you win from creating multiple N'Zoth boards which should outvalue their boards. That's also the way to win against Jade Druids.
If I find the time I will update the matchups soon!
MCT could be an option if you face many decks they work well against. I am not sure what to replace though - maybe Fan of Knives if you don't find many odd paladins. Or try not playing Doomsayers maybe?
Please share your results, haha, because I can't test a lot myself and I am curious how these changes would work out :-)
And it is always worth crafting mill rogue - this deck is the one I always go back to when I find me at points of boredom with the "normal" decks, hehe.
I get the idea mate :) thanks a lot.
I tried a bit MCT, against some opponents by removing doomsayer and I found that doomsayer is more important :) But I gotta say, shadowsteping MCT to use twice or using MCT with Bran is so fun, I ve faced 2 concede after taking 3 minions of healer lock and big priest :)
I ve made lots of mistake in dusting crafting thing. But this is not one of them :) Have fun !
nice
Is Togwaggle's Scheme even worth it in this deck? Isn't it a bit less consistent?
Well, so far it didn't make a big difference. But as there is not really a matchup in which it helps to shuffle more than three you are probably right to avoid the possible risk of having to shuffle only one card and falling short in specific matches.
I thought same as you too but today togwaggle save me by letting me shuffle 12 nzoth to my deck so I ve draw 3 nzoth contuniously. In that position shuffling 3 nzoth by gang up decrease the chance for drawing nzoth again. We are facing lots of aggro so i think its kindda obligatory for now.
Do you have any tips to play with this list? I'm at rank 5 and have played about 40 rounds but only won 12. Most of my matchups are against priest of course, which I can normally win against. Every other matchup except a very few I get shredded against. Quite confident i'm just playing it... well not very good. Is there any tips to win against more matchups than just priest?
Hey Verityle,
thanks for your interest in the deck :-)
Which matchups are you specifically interested? I listed some decks in the guide, but I am totally willing to give more advices if you can tell me a bit more about your problematic matchups. It takes quite some time and work to do these things and I do work full-time so I would like to put the work in focussed manners - I hope you can understand!
Some general ideas: Against aggressive decks it can be a valid strategy to shuffle Sludge Belchers and pray to reach Valeera and N'zoth turns. Against warlocks you need to remember to keep some way to bounce him for the lethal Mill (don't waste your Saps and Vanishes if not needed). And the third general tip is to be patient when you can. There are many good players around that know turn 2 that you are Mill Rogue and find ways to empty their hands, so you can wait for big mill turns with Brann and Shadowstep instead of trying it early.
If this does not help you, just tell me your problems and maybe even post replays of games you feel like you didn't play optimal :-)
Best,
HackFin
I still run your decklist (actually rank 4) and I am considering to try climbing some more ranks this weekend. Maybe even till rank 1 / legend, if I have the nerves for this ;-) Would you still use exactly this decklist or would you adapt some cards due to the nerfs at 05. February?
It seems to me that I see more (big)priests now, so I am thinking about cutting the two Deathlord. Would you also do that and if, which cards would you use instead of?
Nice to hear that you still play this list! :-)
I didn't have a lot of time to play the last few weeks, so I couldn't test it more. I think it is a good idea to try some replacements. SI: Agents, Eviscerate or a copy of Evasion are always a consideration. Or maybe walk the plank. I hope I can find some testing time next weekend and also update this guide a litte, but at the moment I can't say much more.
Good luck with your climb!
Thank you very much for your reply! I will think about your suggestions and try them; this depends on which opponent decks I will meet.
Walk the Plank sounds good if I see many bigpriests. Valeera the hollow + shadowreflexions = 2x destroy a resurrected bigpriest minion with only one card ;-)
I cut 2 fan of knives for the plagued scientist missile launcher combo. Plus thoughts on using that new murloc that draws 2 murlocs? How about the spirit of the shark?
That combo is pretty expensive, but if it works out, why not!
The murloc is not really needed because the Minstrels are straight up better and in most matchups you don't need coldlights so quickly.
And the spirit is strictly worse than Brann because it costs one mana more and you don't need to double combo abilities.
Yeah i guess spirit of the shark us overkill. Just played vs a guy running standard otk pally at rank 9 and i milled his DK on turn 7 with brann coldlight shadowstep and Oracle again.
Reason to remove knives was that its msin purpose in my eyes was to clear pally tokens but odd pally us kinda rare so stalling the game and playing plagued scientist with missile launcher does wonders. Sure its a combo play so ur not gonna have every match vs aggro but damn when u use it its so fun and every opponent emotes wow cause nobody expects it as its borderline memery.
I like the fact that if u get the right cards early vs aggro u can pull a disgusting turn 10 with nzoth and most aggro decks dont comeback from it
5 Games, 4 wins and 3 recent opponents want to fk my mum :D think this decks works :D
+1