Changed Core Cards Will Replace Legacy Cards with Same Name - Discussion Ongoing
There's been quite some confusion about cards that have been changed being in Legacy set and Core set at the same time, which version do you get in Wild? The current implentation is that the Core set version will be the only one used, which has lead to outcry of people using the old versions in Wild decks, most particularly Stonetusk Boar and Bluegill Warrior Multiple Blizzard developers and several community figures weighed in on the changes and the discussion may have perhaps changed Blizzards stance on the issue.
Let us know in the comments what your stance is in this balance issue!
Start of the Conversation
Quote from twitterWill cards from Classic / Basic moving to Legacy be the same as the ones from the Core set, or will they remain how they are now?
If they are different, can we run both versions on the same deck?
If they are the same, will you provide full dust refund for nerfed cards?
Quote from Alec DawsonThey will be the same as they are in Core, Basic cards do not get a refund since they are Basic. There will be a refund for the old Ysera since her Dream cards have changed.
Community Weighs In and Iksar Responds
Quote from ZeddyWild is a place to play your favorite decks of old. This statement is becoming more and more untrue every year and should not be a reason to more continously balance the format especially with the introduction of Classic. Please reconsider your stance on this IksarHS and company
Quote from Dean "Iksar" AyalaAs you know, there is rarely one aspect to any decision. In this case:
Potential Upsides:
Don't have multiple versions of the same card in multiple game modes.
Possible Wild is just more fun without Bluegill and Stonetusk Boar.
Quote from Dean "Iksar" AyalaPotential Downsides:
Players that love using those cards won't be able to use them in the same way.
Wild potentially just more fun with Charge on those two cards.
Quote from Dean "Iksar" AyalaIn this case, we felt pros outweighed the cons, but it's not an exact science choice. The answer to 'did you think about this thing' is usually going to be yes.
Iksar Mentions a Possible Solution
Quote from Dean "Iksar" AyalaIf we were to change, we'd almost certainly just remove the version of stonetusk and bluegill in core and replace them with two different cards instead of keeping different versions across the two modes.
Quote from Brian KiblerThat seems like the best solution to me to avoid breaking decks people may really enjoy in wild
Quote from ZeddyI personally think this would be the best decision going forward if we see more changes like this in the future. I'm also very happy to see you guys so quick to discuss this and share it with us. Regardless very excited for the core set and everything coming up.
Quote from Dean "Iksar" AyalaFwiw, Boar has caused more designs to not exist than any other single card I can think of. Some benefit to getting that space back. Though it's possible some of those designs would have slipped through if we were just talking about Wild.
Iksar Mentions The Design Team's Thoughts
Quote from Dean "Iksar" AyalaWe talked about it some more today, though. Some differing opinions among the design team so I could see changing that stance.
Why wont they refund the reworked cards? Specifically the Dragon Aspects.
I crafted Alex and Maly for a Maly druid deck recently (scholomance). They essentially just deleted the cards regarding functionality. Decks that worked around those cards are now useless, even in wild.
These are completely new cards, not reworked ones. Alex and Maly will stay alive in wild.
The reworked cards in question here are charge minions changing to rush. Boar and Bluegill
No, in wild both versions of Dragon legendaries will coexist, you will still be able to play old Malygos or Alextrasza, together with the new versions.
The Dragon Aspects are not reworked cards. They are new cards, hence the new names.
It's like how there are multiple different Togwaggles or Elises, for example.
The Alex and Maly you crafted will be the exact same in wild.
I aint gonna lie, for months I've never seen a Boar or a Bluegill in any of the games I played in wild ranked, so I dont think leaving them there would be a problem. Maybe they can consider this when they gonna print a card that would create a broken combo with them. Like announce the card, then discuss it with community.
Wild is full of secret mages, big/raza priests, kingsbane rogues and odd paladins; especially the first two. I'd say they should also consider nerfing very popular / OP wild decks just to increase the variety at least. I never see Hunters in wild, never see midrange decks. Wild has only 2 deck types: either super aggro, you lose on turn 3 or 4; or super controlly OTK decks (well, big priest is kinda like otk, like they make you lose your hopes in one turn).
Yes, the loss of mid-range is sad in Wild, and it happens because control decks like big priest are too flexible and explosive now. Cubelock and even shaman are amazing mid-range decks which would have teared up standard, but they are just not competitive.
As for boar and bluegill, they are problematic with attack buffs and cards like The Caverns Below. In an "everything unnerfed" format, I feel the original 4+5-5 The Caverns Below would be very tilting to play against!"Loss of midrange"
Secret mage is midrange.
Old decks such as cubelock not being playable is inherent to the game design of constant power creep. Unless they get access to new, high powered additions, they fall off eventually. If secret mage were to not get any additions for a year or 2, it would probably fall off in favor of something else as a for instance. Also ironic you long for cubelock, which was a control deck (not midrange) that cheated out big creatures like big priest.
I'm fine with unnerfs of some old/rotating cards, but they should not nerf anything, barring extremely efficient combo. They nerf a few top decks, and then after a short while people will complain those classes aren't around and that the "new" decks are too good. This is literally the case with even shaman, a deck which everyone complained about and wanted nerf, and now you see commenters longing for it again.
Sorry, how exactly is Secret Mage midrange?
Their game plan is to deal as much face damage as they can, as fast as they can. It's just mostly with spells and battlecries instead of minion swarms.
Also how would you classify a Unite the Murlocs quest shaman?
Yes, I agree. It is possible to discuss if secret mage is aggro or tempo, but midrange, absolutely NOT!
Why? It curves ut at turn 5 with Cloud Prince which has burst with the only 6-drop being Sayge, Seer of Darkmoon or Aluneth, which are refill cards. Kabal Crystal Runner is a 6-drop but is never ever played for 6.
My point is that even shaman has also gone in the similar direction, ditching typical mid-range minions like The Lich King in favour of a more explosive earlygame.
Mid-range decks used to have the job of getting a lead in the earlygame, but also run some bigger threats to kill slower decks even after they played Reno Jackson.
it's not a criminal practice, they said. it's not a scam, they said.
it isn't you DON'T own the cards, you just have a license to play with some of them, go read the terms of service, they do reserve the rights to change everything about this game, even the monetary system, you agreed to it, the fact that you didn't read them isn't anyone's but your fault, and NO before your entitled pea-sized gringo brain jumps to a gringo-like conclusion where the thing is somehow in "fine print" no it isn't that clause is literally bolded and in a bigger font-size than other clauses.
Reject Blizzard - return to monke
Shame for blizzard..
I fully understand why they are changing those charge minions, but at the same time, they are not doing anything to secret mage and raza priest. Although easily countered, both decks are definitely fun and interactive to play against, right Iksar and team?
They are clearly not doing enough testing and then make excuses like "we did this on purpose to let the players test and nerf if needed". Their logic is like "let's make some fun and interactive cards so that control decks are all crap except (insert tickatus), then aggro players destroy the fun and interactive deck so the meta consists of mostly aggro + some fun and interactive + very few control decks. In their mind this is closest to a "healthy" meta.
Extremely dumb change. EXTREMELY DUMB. Should have just made new cards.
I hate charge combo cards and am happy they're removing it from Standard, but removing it from the game? What a racket by Activision. Everything Iksar does seems to be for the worse.
Malygos and the other Dragons Blizzard re-made are NOT what is meant here. Those cards have gotten new names and are different cards.
The problem is cards like Stonetusk Boar which has been changed to a card with the exact same name, but a different function: Emerald Skytalon
There are several of those and the new Core set versions are overwriting the old versions in Wild. This is not the case for the Dragons which will live side by side and can both be put in a deck.
wich kind of refund we are getting for ysera??? we are getting full dust back without disenchant like hall of fame??
You're getting nothing. Not a scrap of dust. By design.
That's what Alec Dawson's tweet implies, yes. Full dust refund because her Dream cards have been changed.
he said there will be a refund for Ysera