Changed Core Cards Will Replace Legacy Cards with Same Name - Discussion Ongoing
There's been quite some confusion about cards that have been changed being in Legacy set and Core set at the same time, which version do you get in Wild? The current implentation is that the Core set version will be the only one used, which has lead to outcry of people using the old versions in Wild decks, most particularly Stonetusk Boar and Bluegill Warrior Multiple Blizzard developers and several community figures weighed in on the changes and the discussion may have perhaps changed Blizzards stance on the issue.
Let us know in the comments what your stance is in this balance issue!
Start of the Conversation
Quote from twitterWill cards from Classic / Basic moving to Legacy be the same as the ones from the Core set, or will they remain how they are now?
If they are different, can we run both versions on the same deck?
If they are the same, will you provide full dust refund for nerfed cards?
Quote from Alec DawsonThey will be the same as they are in Core, Basic cards do not get a refund since they are Basic. There will be a refund for the old Ysera since her Dream cards have changed.
Community Weighs In and Iksar Responds
Quote from ZeddyWild is a place to play your favorite decks of old. This statement is becoming more and more untrue every year and should not be a reason to more continously balance the format especially with the introduction of Classic. Please reconsider your stance on this IksarHS and company
Quote from Dean "Iksar" AyalaAs you know, there is rarely one aspect to any decision. In this case:
Potential Upsides:
Don't have multiple versions of the same card in multiple game modes.
Possible Wild is just more fun without Bluegill and Stonetusk Boar.
Quote from Dean "Iksar" AyalaPotential Downsides:
Players that love using those cards won't be able to use them in the same way.
Wild potentially just more fun with Charge on those two cards.
Quote from Dean "Iksar" AyalaIn this case, we felt pros outweighed the cons, but it's not an exact science choice. The answer to 'did you think about this thing' is usually going to be yes.
Iksar Mentions a Possible Solution
Quote from Dean "Iksar" AyalaIf we were to change, we'd almost certainly just remove the version of stonetusk and bluegill in core and replace them with two different cards instead of keeping different versions across the two modes.
Quote from Brian KiblerThat seems like the best solution to me to avoid breaking decks people may really enjoy in wild
Quote from ZeddyI personally think this would be the best decision going forward if we see more changes like this in the future. I'm also very happy to see you guys so quick to discuss this and share it with us. Regardless very excited for the core set and everything coming up.
Quote from Dean "Iksar" AyalaFwiw, Boar has caused more designs to not exist than any other single card I can think of. Some benefit to getting that space back. Though it's possible some of those designs would have slipped through if we were just talking about Wild.
Iksar Mentions The Design Team's Thoughts
Quote from Dean "Iksar" AyalaWe talked about it some more today, though. Some differing opinions among the design team so I could see changing that stance.
Stonetusk Boar and Bluegill Warrior are Neutrals and cheaps.
Kor'kron Elite is never going to cause too many design problems. They don't totally remove Charge from the game, so they want to keep some cards with that mechanic.
Also worth noting that Kor’kron doesn’t have a tribal tag.
Beasts and murlocs have synergies in multiple classes.
Can someone explain something to me regarding the cards.
I recently opened a good amount of Classic Packs in my new account, and just recently they announced the core list and it contains ALMOST literally every Classic Cards(I know it's not all of them, luckily). If I knew they'd give them all away I wouldn't have opened those packs, will they give some Dust to the players who already had most of the core set cards?
I know it might be a stupid question, but I was so worried when I saw the list, just after I opened the packs.
I'd really appreciate an explanation, since I feel kind of noob about all this. Thanks!
The only reason to save on opening classic packs is if you’re wanting cards that were Hall of Famed like Murkeye or Captain’s Parrot in order to play in wild, classic, or perhaps duels at some point.
Classic is rotating into legacy, and as far as I know, won’t be available with all the other cardpacks in standard but rather be grouped into wild or maybe separately to bring interest to “classic mode.”
They won’t be giving you the core set cards, but rather letting you “rent them.” So basically you’ll just have extra copies until they rotate.
...
Give us our ***** parrot back iksar!!! >:( Like wtf it's not like that card would have been good in any deck released since he was hall of famed...
Lol xD
I would like to try it out at 1 mana for a bit in wild, I’m curious if that would even make the cut considering how pirate warrior operates now.
Thank you so much for the explanation! I was quite lost about this topic and worried, since I thought I wasted money.
No worries! I think classic packs are definitely worth it if you want to play classic mode.
Some classic cards are good in wild, but I wouldn’t buy any packs for wild necessarily, just craft.
You weren't able to do that anyway. That feature got removed a long time ago
He meant Sac Pac would be reverted that it can target enemy demon, and if Jaraxxus changed into hero card, that would not happen
if I remember it correctly the change to Sacrificial Pact was you no longer could target an enemy character but with the new Lord Jaraxxus you probably cannot even suicide anymore cause it's no longer a minion (similar "synergy" as Dr. Boom, Mad Genius and E.M.P. Operative
Did they? I know they made it so you can't use Sac Pact on your opponents Jaraxxus but I thought you could still do it to yourself.
No fuck, don''t listen to that fucking entitled manchild that is Zeddy wanting to play whatever deck of old that would probably no longer work in wild anyways, Wild deserves as much care and balance as Bgs gets, they might be "side modes" and them taking the place of standard is something no one ver hopes for, but that doesn't mean they should be unplayable festerpits
if they make new versions of boar and Bluegill for wild, I really want the old version of Jaraxxus, it makes no sense to remove the demon version and replace him with a generic hero card that we have over a dozen of already. his jankiness is his main selling point right now. the new version is an okay card, but it shouldn't exclude us from playing Jaraxxus as he is meant to be in Wild.
Pfp checks out.
And I agree. Currently, if you're at low health you can play Jaraxxus to restore your hp to 15, like using alextrasza on yourself. The new one can't do that. It only gives 5 armor.
Plus it seems like you'll no longer be able to Sac Pact your own face.
Um, yeah, that sounds really smart, make Jarraxus a card that means that you are automatically screwed if your opponent has a Repentance or a Sacrificial Pact.
Real.
Fucking.
Smart.
Hell, even I know that turning Jarraxus into a Death Knight is a monster buff, because not only does this mean that he won't be one of the options pulled by Skull of the Man'ari, the Warlock's Galakrond or the Warlock's prime, but that means the following:
1) Jarraxus no longer is set at 15 health.
2) He now gives you a 5 Armor bonus and a Weapon as his Battlecry.
3) His Hero Power can spam out multiple 6/6 Demons that can be brought back with Bloodreaver Gul'dan in Wild...
.... which leads to the most important thing...
4) WARLOCK NOW HAS ACCESS TO TWO PLAYABLE DEATH KNIGHTS IN RENOLOCK AND CUBELOCK. The same for Reno Mage in Wild with The Amazing Reno and Frost Lich Jaina.
I cannot believe someone can be so oblivious to how radical of a change and how huge of a buff this is to making Jaraxxus a Death Knight.
They’re called hero cards now, death knights are specific to frozen throne expac.
Also Sac Pact got changed when DH came out so it’s only really possible with a crazy cho, Saboteur combo.
I agree with the rest of you points, and it’s even better now because perhaps the new Paladin secret “Reckoning” would have triggered with old Jaraxxus.
But what I don’t get or agree with is why you’re being hostile. The person stated their opinion casually and inconclusively . People can be wrong, opinions can change, this is a place for discussion.
mI am not claiming that the new Jaraxxus isn't an on average better card. it is far easier to play, and most the time you want to play a tempo card like Jaraxxus is when you are ahead. Sure old Jaraxxus has saved my butt when I am on 1 mana, but most times he doesn't quite do enough to stop your opponent.
my point is that new Jaraxxus is a fundamentally different card. you mentioned Skull of the Man'ari which is a good example of how different new Jaraxxus is. there are plenty of times that a 3/15 demon is a really great play, especially around turns 4 or 5. without being a minion new Death Knight Jaraxxus will lose all flexibility on whether you use him as a demon or a hero and just becomes an okay tempo play late game.
I have nothing against new Jaraxxus, but I don't think he should replace old Jaraxxus, just like the new aspects didn't replace the old ones. he works in fundamentally different ways from the old version, and is inherently a less skillful and less interesting card. between this and the Y'sera nerf I might just find myself playing a lot more classic than I originally thought I would.
How have the dream cards changed? On the official Hearthstone card library, the token cards associated with the new Ysera look exactly the same.
https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/cards/ysera-the-dreamer/
Ysera Awakens: 3 Mana deal five to all minions
Nightmare: 0 mana +4/+4
Laughing Sister: 2 mana 3/5 can’t be targeted
Dream: 1 mana return an enemy minion to your opponents hand