October Hearthstone Game Mechanics Update
In Hearthstone's October Patch we're getting an update to a couple of game mechanics. The goal behind these changes is to make the game work more intuitively. Core gameplay is not being changed, only rare edge-cases.
Ultimately, triggers will now be validated before they activate, so new triggers introduced onto the board during a chain of events will no longer fire. Watch the video below or read the huge informative text by Josh Durica and Daxxarri if you want to get more in-depth into the changes.
Josh Durica on Evolve
A change in the future will ensure Evolve effects aren't going to activate any summon triggers.
Quote from Josh DuricaThis mechanic change actually does not affect the Apothecary/Thrall interaction because that’s due to a different issue involving evolve effects activating certain summon triggers. However, we ARE specifically changing Apothecary in the next patch, so that it will no longer trigger off evolve effects.
Additionally, while it won’t make the next patch, we’re planning to make sure evolve effects won’t activate any summon triggers in the future.
Hearthside Chat with Josh Durica: Game Mechanics Update
Join Hearthstone Gameplay Engineer Josh Durica as he gives you an overview of what to expect from the game mechanics changes coming in Hearthstone’s October 2017 update!
In-Depth Explanation of Changes
Quote from Josh Durica and DaxxarriHearthstone has a lot going on under the hood. The cause-and-effect relationships when cards are played are relatively straightforward and easy to predict, but because of the way certain events are timed, some very surprising things can happen in rare circumstances. We want cards to work the way that you guess they might—in other words, we want the game to work intuitively.
In the upcoming patch, we’re making some changes in pursuit of that goal. We want Hearthstone to continue to be strategically deep: a game of careful choices, calculated risks, and exciting events. So we want to be extra clear that this update isn’t a change in depth; instead it’s one step in an ongoing effort improve Hearthstone’s mechanics.
Hearthstone’s core gameplay won't change, but what will change are some rare edge-cases.
Please be aware: what follows is a detailed look at Hearthstone’s mechanics by Hearthstone Gameplay Engineer Josh Durica. If you want to delve into the nitty-gritty details regarding how this change will work, read on.
First, A Glossary
Event
Events are interactions that occur throughout gameplay that can cause triggers to activate when they happen.
Example Events:
- Whenever a Card is Played
- After a Card is Played
- Deathrattle (When this minion dies)
- Whenever a Minion Takes Damage
- At the End of Your Turn
Trigger
A trigger has two parts: an event (usually starts with “Whenever”, “After”, or “At”), and an effect. Sometimes triggers can also have a condition (usually noted with “if” or “while”, but sometimes noted by qualifiers like “your”).
Example triggers:
- Whenever you cast a spell, gain +1 Attack.
- After you cast a spell, deal 1 damage to ALL minions.
- At the end of your turn, give another random friendly minion +1 Health.
- If you control a Secret at the end of your turn, gain +2/+2.
Zone
In Hearthstone, there are three zones where triggers can happen, and they happen in order: First, any triggers in the Battlefield, then those that occur in a player’s Hand, and finally those that belong to cards in a player’s Deck.
Sequence
Whenever an action is taken, Hearthstone executes a sequence of steps to resolve what happens.
Here’s a simplified example sequence:
- ACTION: A card is played (this begins the sequence)
- EVENT: Whenever A Card is Played
o Whenever A Card is Playedtriggers
resolve
- Card ability activates
- EVENT: After a Card is Played event occurs
o After a Card is Playedtriggers
resolve
Here’s what that sequence would look like using actual cards, if you had a Questing Adventurer and a Flamewaker on the board, and then played Frostbolt:
- ACTION: Frostbolt is played (this begins the sequence)
- EVENT: Whenever a Card is Played triggers resolve
o Questing Adventurer gains +1/+1
- Frostbolt’s text resolves: Deal 3 damage and freeze
- EVENT: After a Card is Played triggers resolve
o Flamewaker shoots two missilesThis is a simple example, but a sequence can incorporate many events and triggers.
Keep in mind that dealing damage, destroying a minion, and other things can interrupt sequences with new sequences, like in this more detailed example:
- ACTION: Frostbolt is played (this begins the sequence)
- EVENT: Whenever a Card is Played triggers resolve
o Questing Adventurer gains +1/+1
- Frostbolt’s text resolves: Deal 3 damage and freeze
o NEW SEQUENCE: Damage dealtEVENT:
Whenever a Minion Takes Damage triggers
resolve
- EVENT: After a Card is Played triggers resolve
o Flamewaker shoots 1 missile
- NEW SEQUENCE: Damage dealt
- EVENT: Whenever a Card Takes Damage triggers resolve
o Flamewaker shoots another missile
- NEW SEQUENCE: Damage dealt
- EVENT: Whenever a Card Takes Damage triggers resolve
In Pursuit of the Goal
If you watched the video in our recent blog post, then you saw two different examples of cards triggering in counter-intuitive ways because they weren’t present when the sequence that activated them took place. That sets the stage for the primary goal we wanted to accomplish with these changes:
If you want to trigger off something, you need to be present and valid when that something first happens.
A more technical way to say this is: In order for a trigger to activate from a sequence, it needs to be present and valid at the time the sequence began.
This means any card featuring a trigger that appears in the middle of a sequencecan’t activate during that sequence. So, when you play a card (or when a card is destroyed, or an attack occurs, etc.) you only need to consider what is currently on the board instead of guessing what the board state might be in the middle of the sequence. The Mindgames + Wild Pyromancer interaction showcased in the video is an example of an interaction improved by this change.
The valid qualifier is more subtle, but equally important. Before any trigger can activate, it needs to be validated. Each trigger has its own specific validation step, which allows the trigger to filter when it should and shouldn’t activate. For example, the Whenever a Card is Played event occurs when any card of any type (Minion, Spell, Weapon, etc.) is played. However, we want a card like Flamewaker to only triggerwhen a friendly spell is cast, so the Flamewaker’s validation step checks the card type and controller of the card played. In other words, Flamewaker’s trigger is only valid if the card played was a spell cast by Flamewaker’s controller.
Before our changes, we would validate triggers whenever their related eventoccurred, even if that was in the middle of the sequence. After the mechanics update, all triggers are validated when the sequence begins, and then they are only allowed to activate if they were valid from the start.
For further insight, let’s look at a bug that will be addressed by the update:
Currently, if you have a Djinni of Zephyrs on the board and cast Entomb on an enemy minion, your Djinni of Zephyrs will trigger, sending itself back to your deck. Not great for you or the Djinni! Djinni of Zephyrs triggers off the After a Card is Played event, and his validation step should only pass if the card played was a spell cast on a different friendly minion. Entomb is a spell, but it was cast on an enemy minion, so why does Djinni trigger?
Remember: the After a Card is Played event occurs after the ability on the played card resolves. In this case, that card is Entomb, and its ability moves the enemy minion into your deck. When the enemy minion enters your deck, it becomes a friendly minion. So, by the time the After a Card is Played event occurs, Djinni’s trigger is valid, because the minion is now friendly.
After the mechanics update, Djinni’s trigger is validated at the beginning of the sequence when the enemy minion is still on the battlefield, and because the triggerisn’t valid at that point (since Entomb counts as being cast on an enemy minion), it’s prevented from triggering when the After a Card is Played event occurs.
There is one final change we should mention, which is a tweak to when we validate triggers across different zones. Currently, the order in which triggers are validatedand activated looks like this:
1) Validate Player 1 Battlefield triggers and then activate those that are valid.
2) Validate Player 1 Hand triggers and then activate those that are valid.
3) Validate Player 1 Deck triggers and then activate those that are valid.
4) Validate Player 2 Battlefield triggers and then activate those that are valid.
5) Validate Player 2 Hand triggers and then activate those that are valid.
6) Validate Player 2 Deck triggers and then activate those that are valid.
That approach meant new triggers could appear in the middle of a sequence and still be activated, and a trigger’s validation could even be affected by previous triggers’activations. The Bolvar Fordragon/Spirit Echo interaction detailed in the video was an example of a weird interaction caused by this.
After the update, the order now looks like this:
1) Validate all Battlefield triggers
2) Validate all Hand triggers
3) Validate all Deck triggers
4) Activate Player 1 valid Battlefield triggers
5) Activate Player 1 valid Hand triggers
6) Activate Player 1 valid Deck triggers
7) Activate Player 2 valid Battlefield triggers
8) Activate Player 2 valid Hand triggers
9) Activate Player 2 valid Deck triggers
This means all triggers are validated before any trigger is allowed to activate. Since all triggers are validated using the same game state, then triggers that appear in the middle aren’t allowed to fire. It’s important to note that the order in which triggersare activated is unchanged.
Here are some more examples of sequences and their results before and after the mechanics update:
Card Played
Example Interaction:
Player 1 has a Mad Scientist on the board, and a Mirror Entity in their deck.
Player 2 plays Stampeding Kodo.
Before Update
1) Stampeding Kodo kills Mad Scientist.
2) Mad Scientist pulls Mirror Entity into play.
3) Mirror Entity triggers, copying Stampeding Kodo.
After Update
1) Stampeding Kodo kills Mad Scientist.
2) Mad Scientist pulls Mirror Entity into play.
3) Mirror Entity does NOT trigger, because it did not exist when Stampeding Kodo was played.
Minion Destroyed
Example Interaction:
Player 1 has a Piloted Sky Golem and a Wisp on the board (played in that order).
Player 1 plays Deathwing.
The Piloted Sky Golem spawn a Cult Master from its Deathrattle.
Before Update:
The Cult Master's power triggers off of the Wisp's death, and Player 1 draws a card.
After Update:
The Cult Master does not trigger off the Wisp's death, because it wasn’t present to see the Wisp destroyed.
Summon Minion
Example Interaction:
Player 1 has Starving Buzzard and Rotface on the board.
Player 1 also has a Flame Leviathan on top of their deck.
Player 1 plays Savannah Highmane.
Starving Buzzard triggers off of Savannah Highmane, causing Player 1 to draw Flame Leviathan.
Flame Leviathan triggers, dealing 2 damage to all characters.
Rotface triggers off the damage and summons Spiritsinger Umbra.
Before Update:
Spirit Singer Umbra triggers off the Savannah Highmane and summons two hyenas.
After Update:
Spiritsinger Umbra does not trigger off the Savannah Highmane, because she was not present when Savannah Highmane was played.
Thanks for Reading!
Of course, our work to make Hearthstone better won’t stop here!
Like the majority of odd interactions, each of these situations represents an edge case. While this update will address every situation we illustrated (among many others), there are still bound to be more. Keep in mind these are substantial changes to the core systems that underlie Hearthstone! We need to make them incrementally, and with the utmost care, but you can rest assured that we’ll continue to make improvements over time.
yes no longer will i evolve into a Wild Pyromancer, relativly setting up Sleep with the Fishes for my opponent,altough as i read through this i think Blackguard + Truesilver Champion combo still works ,can somebody confirm?
Are you referring to the case of attacking a minion with Truesilver and Blackguard killing it by proccing on the heal negating the attack?
Disguised Toast's KFT interaction video
My guess is that this would be unchanged. The attack does not hit the minion so there is no durability loss. I'm going to test a similar case (can't test Blackguard as I'm not going to craft it for testing) but for now this should be Working As Intended.
yes that was what i was referring to ,and i also think it will still work just wanted to see if somebody can confirm ?
I tested it with Shadowboxer and it still performs the same; heal 2 and still 2 durability charges on weapon due to not hitting minion. Even without crafting a Blackguard I'm going to say that nothing changed.
The question is now "What is the expected result?" Should it remain unchanged or should weapon durability be removed from any attack regardless if it was successful or not?
edited to not have the word charge show up as a keyword when talking about weapon durability :/
So Blizz is finally getting around to fixing their spaghetti code that has been the source of so many headaches and "Wait why does that happen?"s? Great, I'm really happy this small indie company has decided to make the game work in an intelligent way.
:D well said mate... i still think that wording system in HS is like in Magic: the Gathering like was in era "from first release till urza's block" (god i remember release of urza block, theese were so lovely times :D ) and it really needs
1) more state system for wording of cards to clear so many theoretical interpretations of cards and therefore combine this with game code so problems like mentioned evolve/thrall won't happen
2) more keywords - lifesteal is example of good change
You'd be surprised at how most companies operate, especially the largest companies. I do consulting work for mostly fortune 1000 companies and systems, processes, and shit like that are usually saddled with old stuff, and are incredibly difficult to fix in an efficient cost effective way. Unless issues directly effect the bottom line and someone who get's paid enough to make decisions does something about it, nothing happens or at least it gets put onto the back burner until a they hire a consultant like me to come and help clean up their mess.
Blizzard might be huge, but usually the bigger, the messier. I do see Blizzard routinely fixing bugs so at least it's happening. It takes time to understand the impact a small change will have in the overall system.
damn, he explained it well!
Charge is not a summon trigger. So yes, they will still be able to use charge after evolve.
I wonder if this changes the overlap of secrets like Hunter's. Secrets trigger even if the minion that attacked and triggered it has long before been sent back to the owner's hand...
Wanting to clarify if the following interactions will be changed in the update:
Scenario: You have a Flamewaker on your side of the field. You opponent casts Shadow Madness on your Flamewaker and it moves to your opponents side of the board.
Current Result: At the end of this interaction, Flamewaker will trigger its ability.
Update: Flamewaker will not trigger its ability due to Flamewaker not being on your opponent's side of the board when Shadow Madness was cast.
Another Interaction that will possibly not be changed in the update:
Scenario: You cast Mana Bind and end turn. On your opponents turn he casts Flare.
Current Result: Mana Bind WILL trigger and copy the Flare and reduce its cost. Flare does not function correctly.
Update: Flare functions correctly and destroys the Mana Bind secret as intended. The Mana Bind does not trigger and add a copy of Flare to your hand.
Do you think Flare is going to be able to destroy the Counterspell along with other secrets?
Mana Bind should trigger off Flare. Sequence of events:
Player 1 casts Flare.
Player 2's "Whenever a spell is cast" effect triggers (before Flare resolves).
Player 1's Flare resolves.
Ok, they have nothing special to introduce so the just make a huge wall of text about simple bug fixing and feed it to the players like it's something special. They don't even try nowadays.
WILL UNLICENSED APOTHECARY NOT DEAL DAMAGE TO BLOODREAVER GUL'DAN? NO? WELL FUCK ME!
Bullsit so dragons and alike won't activate with Valeera's Shadow
This sounds like a good change, but I'm just not sure they explained it with enough detail. Could we get two, maybe three more pages of mechanical explanations?
Who votes for having Toast as a new employee @ Blizzard?
THUMBS UP
All reasonable, but I'm not sure how this case would work out:
Piloted Shredder and Imp Gang Boss in play (casted in this order)
I cast Hellfire, killing the Shredder. A Knife Juggler pops out.
Imp Gang Boss gets damaged, and a little imp pops out.
Does the Knife Juggler triggers?
This situation is a bit different from the Piloted Shredder / Cult Master one outlined above, as Cult Mater wasn't still there to see Wisp dying, while instead here Knife Juggler would be there already to see the little imp pop out.
The issue is that it's not perfectly clear to me if event validations are done for every sub-sequence, or if they are done just for root one. Personally I think they are done for every single sub-sequence, and that would mean that Knife Juggler WOULD trigger in this situation.. but I'm not totally sure.