Hearthpwn

Quote from Emceehammerpants >>

i ran into an interaction today that I don’t think is correct. I’m interested in other people’s perspectives. 

I run a silly little kingsbane deck on the ladder. I don’t much care for the witchwood expansion, so I’m just trying to amuse myself for awhile until the meta isn’t so unpleasant. 

One thing I very much don’t care for is the advantageous rules interactions mages are getting with their secrets. Glyph’s interaction with bubble is too good by half (I suspect it was a product of the way code was written more than a sober game design decision) and today I found one where the rules fall in an even more advantageous and frustrating way. 

When you play a spell as Valeera the Hollow, and it gets counterspelled, Death’s Shadow remains unchanged. I don’t understand this interaction. Yes, the spell was countered, but I still played the card.

I understand counterspell countering echo effects. Echo is part of the card text. But it seems incorrect to me that counterspell negates Death’s Shadow copying a card. I think this is a bug. Nothing in the way death’s shadow operates or is described (that I can think of, I’m willing to admit to being wrong but I think the bar is pretty high on this one) dictates that I not get the copy. My guess is, again, this is dictated by code, not design. I figure they create the copy after the card executes, and since the card doesn’t execute it isn’t copied. 

Thats just my guess. But I do not believe the interaction is correct 

 The interaction is correct. Counterspell negates the spell played in it's entirety. So, it's as if it was never played. Thus Valeera's passive not being able to copy the last card played.

This 1 mana Warrior card "Charge" should definitely be changed to rush. But, unfortunately, because rush is a flavor text of the newer expansion, they won't change basic/classic details unless they really feel like it. Also, the rush mechanic may not be expanded upon in future expansions, so leaving "rush" on a basic/classic card, could potentially confuse anyone who wasn't around for witchwood's time period. At least, that's probably what blizzard thinks.

Quote from Asklerino >>

You don't have to be so dense about it. The point isn't that the issues happen in wild/last year standard, those are just examples of how strong discover can be and how they limit the power level of cards you can have. There's a reason you can only have one copy of a legendary per deck, discovering one or two extra during a game can be very toxic to the game. Now imagine if next expansion blizzard goes again with "we want to make an overpowered card on purpose to push an archetype into the meta", say another strong mage secret or powerful taunt, and you had discover in lots of other cards, suddenly that card becomes a problem.

Don't you think there's a reason for them to drastically cut out the amount of discover cards? Mean Streets had 6, with Drakonid Operative and Kabal Courier being played in almost every deck that could run it, Journey to Un'Goro had 11 and very problematic ones like Stonehill Defender and Primordial Glyph. Knights of the Frozen throne only had 2, Stitched Tracker which is generally balanced, and Eternal Servitude which brought us the infamous Big Priest, Kobolds and Catacombs only gave us Runespear, which is mostly unplayable, and Witchwood only had two, Arcane Keysmith which is clearly the reason why Ice Block had to be rotated, and Blazing Invocation that also barely sees any play.

And please, not because a format isn't "competitive" it means it has to be an unbalanced shitfest. Even if you don't care about those, blizzard has come long ways trying to make them more competitive (lots of efforts around balancing arena and making the arena leaderboard, nerfs and balance changes for cards in wilds plus more support in general for wild), so pretending they don't exist in terms of balancing for blizzard is just a bad scapegoat argument.

 Obviously the point was that the discover mechanic is broken, and I stated as much, that it's not. The only reason why discover is even an issue to some, is because the randomness that people lose to. Right now standard has a much smaller card pool, and with Witchwood being underpowered, it's not hard for discover to grab something good. Spiteful Summoner for example, the pool is small for 10 mana, making it OP. Nerfing it didn't really do anything, and people have complained as such. Cost was never the problem. The general pool is. Yes obviously there's a reason to having only one of each legendary per deck. Obviously. But, at times, even when discovering a legendary, sometimes isn't even the best choice.

They drastically cut the amount of discover cards more than likely for other reasons, such as, thematically, they're trying other mechanics out to fit the themes. Such as Echo and rush(although we've had rush, in a sense). If discover is part of the next theme, then we just may see more of it. Stonehill Defender is an issue yet again apparently (in standard) due to the small card pool. Just like when Journey to Un'Goro was first released. It sure wasn't an issue afterwards now was it? Was anyone really complaining about Stonehill during Knights of the Frozen Throne or Kobolds and Catacombs? No. Primordial Glyph is an issue due to the discount it gives while already being a cheap mana cost. Arcane Keysmith was CLEARLY not the reason why Ice Block had to be rotated. It's more like because Ice Block was rotated, they can make other cards such as keysmith. Please educate yourself on Freeze Mage even before Primordial Glyph was a thing. Blazing Invocation doesn't see play for two reasons, A.) It's not attached to a body and B.) Battlecry minions aren't that OP and generally you pull something you don't need and isn't specific enough (IE: elemental battecry minions, etc.)

More like because standard is a competitive format and holds things such as tournaments, that it withholds from being limited like other game modes it has. Balancing arena was an obvious thing for Blizzard to do. Due to the obvious low power levels of decks built, but when someone rngs a (for example, not literally) fledgling into the deck, it's harder to deal with. Leader boards were added because people wanted to see their progress, and that their money spent to even play arena, is going towards a goal of some sort. Balance changes for wild was obviously needed considering Naga Sea Witch was horribly OP and they ignored it for too long as it was. But, still, neither arena or wild are competitive formats that are held on a tournament plateau that involves winning money and such. There are problems with standard, don't get me wrong, but discover isn't one of them. No one is pretending anything. If we didn't have either arena or wild, standard would be the same.

Quote from Jakorindo >>

I think the fairest "nerf" to discover is to tweak the preferential to class cards... Probably still have class cards slightly more, but not at the rate we are seeing it at the moment. 

I like the idea of getting to choose one of the three quasi-random cards. As a mechanic it is very nice, and adds almost a "Tech" layer. However I do agree with most peoples idea that at the moment it (Stonehill seems to be the most usually target) can get some quite strong cards (tarim and tirion) a bit too frequently. 

I like the fact that it can grab legendaries and it shouldn't restrict this aspect, but I think the issue here is it (Stonehill) is grabbing class cards too frequently. I am pretty sure it is common to get a choice between righteous protector, tarim and tirion for example.

Instead of this occuring, what if we had only slightly more chance of seeing tarim as say Lich King, this wouldn't be that op then... 

Anyway that is my two cents about this, let me know if anyone agrees, or if this too drastic in one direction or the other.

 I agree to an extent. Class card pull should be more normalized to have an even percentage of what it pulls from other classes as well as neutral cards. We're yet again at a time where Stonehill Defender's taunt pool is small, and grabbing multiple Tarims is possible, just like when Un'Goro first launched.

Quote from The_Edel_Bernal >>

Quote from xSaiko >>

Quote from The_Edel_Bernal >>

Before anything, this is just my personal feeling, it may not be objective truth. 

The problem with Discover mechanic is that it favors Class cards, which are four times more likely to show up than neutral cards. This means whenever if there's a relevant Discover card around, class cards cannot be strong. For instance:

Ice Block - While people complain about the non-interactivity of the card, they never complained about it being OP...not until Discover and Cabalist's Tome starts producing 3rd, 4th or even 5th Ice Blocks.

Duskbreaker - I've seen many people complaining about this card, and the most common response is "Wait until Netherspite Historian rotates out". The same can be said about Dr. OP Drakonid Operative, two copies are fine, four copies? Not so much.

Stonehill Defender is another card like this, with Paladin being the worst offender before Righteous Protector came into being. This card still is very good now through, who doesn't like getting smacked by a board of 3/3 dudes fighting Odd Paladin.

So what do you think? Personally, I think Discover, in its attempt to limit RNG of the game, is way too overpowered. The pool of cards it offers should be like Arena, with bias towards certain cards, and the very best cards only show up once in a blue moon.

 Ice Block is wild only now. Don't see it ruining standard anymore.

Duskbreaker is good, but only 2 copies in standard. Same goes for Drakonid Operative.

Stonehill is a very strong card, OP though, not really.

Seems like most of the issues you're having with the discover mechanic is only really relative to wild.

Discover RNG shouldn't be restricted like arena. Only due to the reason of the card pool being selective to each format it's in. Seems more so problematic in Wild. Standard is fine.

 The problem is, as long as the mechanic stays the same, future cards cannot be strong, just look at Warsong Commander nerf.

The solution to a problem shouldn't be "Wait until something rotates" or "Wait until Blizzard implement some crap cards for that class". The game is balanced around players having two copies of a good card, not three or four. Winning the game because you got lucky with a RNG generated card once per ten matches is cool, winning because you get a good card once per two match is too much.

During the era of Unstable Portal, there's a saying "You have a chance to just win the game depending on what you get". This happens, may be like 5% of the time.

Right now with Discover, it's not as extreme, a bit like "Your chance of winning the game increases by 30% if you discover that ultra strong class card.", except it happens much more often, like 33% of the time.

Unless Team5 is balancing the game around a class regularly getting 3 or 4 copies of good class cards, Discover will remain OP. Meanwhile, if they do, the class card would be so crap it's not worth even using them.

I rather have them fix Discover instead of making class cards crap, just give it the Arena bucket treatment.

 Again, most of your issues with discover lie with wild. And throwing out a random percentage statistic doesn't mean anything. There's no evidence to support your "it happens 33% of the time". 

Giving it the arena treatment would be ridiculous. First of all, arena isn't necessarily a competitive format. Meaning we don't see tournaments for it, obviously. Having fair odds at the rng roll on a discover is that. Fair. Wild, also, don't have tournaments that actually matter. Stifling the rng pool would just kill the mechanic in it's entirety. Comparing that to Warsong Commander is like water and oil. Charge is obviously a game ending mechanic and when able to be cheaply used (mana cost) it became a serious problem. Don't retort with Discover can be game ending too. It can be, but comparatively, you only have so many chances to find something useful. While Warsong was a definite 100% combo. Since you know, it's actually in the deck. Hence why we're seeing less to no newer charge minions and now rush. 

Quote from The_Edel_Bernal >>

Before anything, this is just my personal feeling, it may not be objective truth. 

The problem with Discover mechanic is that it favors Class cards, which are four times more likely to show up than neutral cards. This means whenever if there's a relevant Discover card around, class cards cannot be strong. For instance:

Ice Block - While people complain about the non-interactivity of the card, they never complained about it being OP...not until Discover and Cabalist's Tome starts producing 3rd, 4th or even 5th Ice Blocks.

Duskbreaker - I've seen many people complaining about this card, and the most common response is "Wait until Netherspite Historian rotates out". The same can be said about Dr. OP Drakonid Operative, two copies are fine, four copies? Not so much.

Stonehill Defender is another card like this, with Paladin being the worst offender before Righteous Protector came into being. This card still is very good now through, who doesn't like getting smacked by a board of 3/3 dudes fighting Odd Paladin.

So what do you think? Personally, I think Discover, in its attempt to limit RNG of the game, is way too overpowered. The pool of cards it offers should be like Arena, with bias towards certain cards, and the very best cards only show up once in a blue moon.

 Ice Block is wild only now. Don't see it ruining standard anymore.

Duskbreaker is good, but only 2 copies in standard. Same goes for Drakonid Operative.

Stonehill is a very strong card, OP though, not really.

Seems like most of the issues you're having with the discover mechanic is only really relative to wild.

Discover RNG shouldn't be restricted like arena. Only due to the reason of the card pool being selective to each format it's in. Seems more so problematic in Wild. Standard is fine.

I am a F2P player as well. I would dust her. I'd normally be very careful as to what you dust, because i've dusted some stuff stupidly before. However Sindragosa doesn't see very much play. Neither elemental, big, or tempo mage does it really see play. 1600 dust can be very beneficial and I would spend it on a deck(s) you believe will be useful in the future so your crafting doesn't go to waste. What do you plan on making?

Quote from Velerios >>

Quote from Hajima >>

Spiteful nerf did nothing.

 The problem with Spiteful is simply in standard the rotation. As a wild-player i knew the difference, and there the spiteful-nerf nearly killed the card. It's a HUGE difference, if Spiteful summons N'zoth or Tyrantus.

For a new spiteful-nerf we need statwise BAD 10 drops with insane battlecrys like we had with the Old Gods. The rotation made it so that 10 mana only includes 8/8s and 12/12; and there are actually only 5-6 cards there, so getting a Tyrantus is actually quite high.

 

 

 EXACTLY. You're the only other person I have seen that actually GETS it. The problem was NEVER the mana cost of spiteful. The clear problem is exactly what you said. Rotation caused previous expansions bad statted 10 mana cost minions to rotate out and now the only 5-6 cards that are left, are higher statted RNGesus minions.

Only reiterating what you said because apparently no one else seems to understand this.

Quote from hawkin90 >>

When will Blizzard start pushing out regular updates to balance cards actively like any other card game? Getting one balance patch every 6th month is pathetic for such a popular game.

 I agree that regular updates to balance cards is needed. The problem that they stated that they have upon having to do that, is that the update has to update across multiple platforms. PC/Android/iOS. Seems more so when they do it across multiple plats, is the legal loopholes they have to jump through to do it for Android/iOS. Or at least, that's what I remembered. But, I could be very wrong and they're just lazy.

Quote from ArcanaChoir >>

Quote from xSaiko >>

Yeah, leave hearthstone to people who actually want to play against someone else and have a chance at winning.

 Kiddo, you're hillarious. Quest rogue was the one deck that kept control bullshit in check. With all the power clears, heals, high statted taunts and general OP late game cards, aggro is practically dead.

You're obviously some kind of (bad) priest player with an erection about how unbeatable your decks are at the moment.. but sure that's so fair.

 Kiddo? Lol alright. Since we're resorting to "intelligent" insults without a clear understanding of how decks work. Aggro is practically dead? Did we just not have Even Paladin that was one of the strongest, if not the strongest deck until just the recent nerf? Did Aggro Mage all of the sudden not become a thing?  You realize that Taunt Druid, Cubelock, and Control Priest was highly unfavored (like 90% as I have stated before, if you actually read anything i've said in this thread).

You're obviously a horrible player that hangs around rank 20 and only plays casual to play the "fun" deck of Quest Rogue and auto winning once your quest was complete. You clearly don't understand how archetypes, win rates, and how the game in general, works. Go play CoD as obviously, critical thinking is not your strong suite.

Quote from Hajima >>

Quote from xSaiko >>

Quote from Hajima >>

 

Quote from Keetsune >>

Quote from maukiepaukiehs >>

 

Quote from RealShamanistic >>

This NERF is not needed and unjustified.  When this Card was released in Journey to Un'goro,  Trump gave it a 1 star rating and said it would not see play.  Lifecoach and Super JJ laughed it off their card review (they were still playing Hearthstone then) and literally would not even review it, they also said that the Hunter Quest was going to be Broken...LOL.  Then the expansion comes out and COMBO players have a new and exciting way to play Rogue other than Miracle or Tempo style decks and immediately Control style players start to complain.  Streamers like Brian Kibler and others make a Youtube video here and there because he/they like playing Control Priest/Control Mage and slow - play 1 card a turn Hearthstone Control style decks. They say this deck is not interactive...Nonsense. They say it does not require any skill...I say it is one of the most skill based decks in the game.  They just like boring drawn out - play 1 card a turn games...A dream scenario for Kibler and other Control favored players aka: Rogue/Combo haters is..."I play a card and then you play a card" games! - AS BORING AS THE GAME GETS. Is it a wonder that the only change to Priest in the classic set that Brian Kibler favors is Inner Fire/Divine Favor? No. Why? Because he and other Control style players hate COMBO decks. Period end of story! If they had their way they would force all fun out of the game entirely surrounding multiple card strategy Combos. On The Caverns Below and Crystal Core he got his way twice! 2 NERFS! He calls up his boy Mike Donais and says (crying) Waw! There is another Rogue Combo deck ruining my 17 turn Control Priest strategy! NERF IT MIKE! NERF IT! If you won't NERF Gadgetzan Auctioneer at least NERF THIS! What does Mike Donais do? NERFS it twice for his old Magic the Gathering pal!  Here is a fact for the developers of Hearthstone...not every player in the game plays the same style, deck diversity is healthy for the game long term, and some of us really enjoy COMBO decks. It is unfortunate that the developers and Control player streamers are forcing us to play the game a way we do not want to. 

 

 So to break it down, these are your ''arguments'':

1. This card was underestimated

2. It is a different way to play rogue

3. Control players are just mad that they get countered

4.  Combo decks are hated

Well, I could go by these one by one, but I don't want to fill up a page with a block of text. Essentially you miss one thing: ultimately, this card was nerfed because of one reason: it is polarizing. This card is not just good against control, it is overpowered against control, whereas it's trash against aggro. This card isn't hated because it's underestimated, different, good against control or combo (which it isn't by the way). This card is hated because it's polarizing. Would you like to ladder in an online game of rock-paper-scissors? No? That's what it feels like for a lot of people. Queue quest rogue and hope to meet warlock, queue warlock and hope to meet mage or paladin, queue mage or paladin and hope to meet quest rogue, is what it often feels like.

And I'm not some delusional lowlife who thinks his play 1 card a turn for 30 minutes priest requires superior intellect. It just surprised me that you wrote so much and failed to address the main reason it gets nerfed.

 

 5. 90%+ of players base is 50iq kids, who can play only scripted decks which require zero thinking.

More than that it's the game itself is positioning as casual one, there is also couple of interesting decks beside quest rogue that are also require a lot of thinking, but they are below 40% winrate :D, quest rogue is the only deck with ~52% winrate that's are not scripted and yet it's got nerfed second time :D By the way quest rogue has only 2% popularity, while druid/lock/pals all has 10%+.

There was zoro reasons to nerf quest rogue(they should even buff it in my oppinon), but blizzards found moaning of 50 iq kids as good reason to do so, i'm glad that MTG Arena will be released soon, so i can stop play this trash HS, since there is no point of discussing this, nothing will be changed, just deal with it.

 

 

 This is my problem right now with hearth stone. Blizzard kowtows so much to kids whining about the only decks I find interesting. Quest rogue had an interesting and unique win condition which made games interesting. Same with raza priest,  probably the most unnecessary nerf in history. But the little kids with low iqs who only want to play aggro or cheat out big minions started crying and now this game is dumb. I don't know about magic or artifact, but I might check them out.

 Kids whining about a deck you find interesting? Quest Rogue isn't interesting. It's boring. It doesn't have a interesting and unique win condition. The win condition was finish quest as early as possible and you win. How is that interesting and unique? It doesn't interact with the board besides keeping aggro at bay till said quest was finished. The problem was that as soon as Quest Rogue finished the quest, that's it. They automatically won. If not, most of the time. I'm perfectly okay with the nerf. The meta slowed down so much that Quest Rogue became a problem, yet again, like the first time. Hence the second nerf. The problem wasn't the win rate Quest Rogue had or has. It's the fact that it almost completely shut out control decks without a chance. And please, don't retort with "but derrr aggro completely shuts out control anyways derrrr", because they don't. Control has a fighting chance vs aggro, where as placing Quest Rogue vs Control it was almost a 90%  favored to Quest Rogue.

 And what was aggros winrate versus quest rogue? And you can interact with the board, it's always a consideration of risking letting their minions live to push face damage or to play for board control.

It's fine with me that you don't find quest rogue interesting, but I think you have a boring playstyle, and it's fine to disagree about that. I like combo decks, which is what this is really about. What isn't ok to me is that blizzard prints combo cards and then just nerf them any time they get close to a fifty percent winrate. That's pretty absurd. Combo is an interesting play style to me compared to the tedium of control or aggro, I just hope a more mature game develops soon so we can leave hearth stone for the kiddy pool.

 For one, interaction with the board is minimal and almost non-existant to get your win condition. Always a consideration of risk letting their minions live? What? You basically glacial, bounce and freeze multiple minions, or drop wax and bounce other minions till quest is done, or you sonya and use a charger to die multiple times to finish quest. Oh and the occassional vanish. After that, scalehide to get your hp back up and bam. You gained board, replenished hp, and can do 25dmg in one fell swoop. All at the high risk of... staving off damage for the first 5-6 turns. Real interactive.

Can't exactly gauge a win rate based soley on a generic "aggro win rate" against a specific class archetype deck. Considering we have different classes. Otherwise, Quest Rogue had actually about 52% w/r the first time around and about the same this time around. Again, the problem is that it completely shut out control decks with a overwhelming favorability. If you don't see that being a problem, then you're part of the problem. Yeah, leave hearthstone to people who actually want to play against someone else and have a chance at winning. Not the one sided bs that was quest rogue. 

Quote from ArcanaChoir >>

What you are failing to understand is that priest is a new cancer the likes of which has not been seen before. You think Warlock was bad having control and cube? Priest has now got Quest, Mindblast and OTK. All pure cancer. All pretty much uncountered. The only thing that would have kept those pieces of subhuman scum in check is quest Rogue, but too fucking bad you bitches moaned so hard it got nerfed again.

Just you wait, it's 2 days after the nerfs and priest is fucking rampant. If you thought cubelock was oppressive, wait until you see what these pricks playing priest will do.

 Did you just start the game or something? Were you not around for when Razakus Priest was insane because Raza made hero powers cost 0? Lol Priest has always had Quest, it's not that OP. OTK? is it like, res Maly OTK or something? I haven't seen one OTK Priest from ranks 5 to 1. You know what beats Mindblast Priest? Aggro. They don't have their board wipes like before and you're complaining now that Priest is cancer? All pretty much uncountered? What are you like rank 24? You clearly weren't around for when Razakus Priest was a thing. I know what to play against you clearly to make you tilt and RQ. Looks like i'll be playing Mindblast Priest on ladder just to annoy those who RQ and can't seem to figure out how to actually play the game.

Quote from thebitterfig >>

 

Quote from Lyra_Silvertongue >>

They already are happening. Seeing people asking for Kirin Tor Mage to be nerfed now of all things, freaking Kirin Tor Mage for crying out loud, you know a vanilla card that has been around in the game for how long now? 

People will whine about anything.

 I'd love to see a lot of the classic set disappear.  Not nerfs per se, just gone.  Make the game different.  I've beaten the drum on Doomguard for a while: it's over-stat-ed, adds an awkward amount of burst damage, and it's just boring.  We've been playing against it forever, and I want to see new stuff.  Let's ditch Nourish, and give druid other different options for ramp or card draw.  Lunar Visions was an interesting idea, that was just never going to see play in a world with Nourish in it.

I haven't given Kirin Tor Mage any thought until you mentioned it, but let's see it go away, too.  It's been a pretty on-again/off-again card in Mage, but yeah.  To heck with the old.  It was cool that it Arcanologist came along, gave new life to this old card for a while, but just as it was good there wasn't too long of an overlap between Reno Jackson and Kazakus, let's keep it moving.  It would have been better and more vibrant if Kirin Tor Mage had been HoF'd.  Maybe rotate it back in sometime.

This permanent classic set, by it's very nature, irks me, and the irritation increases as time passes and so much stays the same.  It's not about power.  It's about making the game ever-changing.

 I think you're all forgetting the reason for the base and classic set. They're meant to provide a skeleton frame and identity for each class. Druids ramp, Rogues have combo cards, etc. They're also meant to provide players with a set cards that they can play with, without always having to purchase new packs. If we got rid of most of the classic/base set, and whip out expansion after expansion with more cards in them, that would seriously hurt the new player experience.  You want to make the game ever-changing but don't think about the consequences and changes it will affect. IE: hurts new player experiences. People who don't normally cash to purchase packs, will have to do so, just to keep up with those that already do. Especially those that don't want to spend real money to get into the game and play. So no, always no to that ever evolving dumb idea that most or all of classic or the base set needs to be rotated out. You want change? Think of a rebuttal that makes sense.

Kirin Tor Mage has been on/off in secret mage and aggro mage. When I started around Whispers of the old Gods, Kirin Tor Mage was not even played with. So no, it's not OP. And no, it should not be hall of famed. It's only OP now because Explosive Runes and Arcanologist are giving Kirin Tor Mage the support. Once those two cards rotate out, unless Kirin gets other cards to be supportive, it won't see a lot of play. Also, Kirin by itself, isn't oppressive. Which brings me to my next point.

Wild is unimportant. Unless something such as Naga Sea Witch is as oppressive, I doubt they will bother to nerf it anytime soon. Please also don't retort with " but wild is a game mode and Blizzard should blah blah blah". No. Comparing it to other TCG/CCGs, wild is like going to your friends house and playing with banned cards from tournament style/standard play. Of course they're broken cards and interactions are broken. Hence not being allowed in tournament/standard play.

Hearthstone isn't hard to figure out guys. From what needs nerfs, to what changes they'll make, etc etc. Quit complaining and learn your MU's.

Did I trigger anyone by using "guys" as a umbrella term? Anyone? Ahhhhh you guys.

Quote from Hajima >>

 

Quote from Keetsune >>

Quote from maukiepaukiehs >>

 

Quote from RealShamanistic >>

This NERF is not needed and unjustified.  When this Card was released in Journey to Un'goro,  Trump gave it a 1 star rating and said it would not see play.  Lifecoach and Super JJ laughed it off their card review (they were still playing Hearthstone then) and literally would not even review it, they also said that the Hunter Quest was going to be Broken...LOL.  Then the expansion comes out and COMBO players have a new and exciting way to play Rogue other than Miracle or Tempo style decks and immediately Control style players start to complain.  Streamers like Brian Kibler and others make a Youtube video here and there because he/they like playing Control Priest/Control Mage and slow - play 1 card a turn Hearthstone Control style decks. They say this deck is not interactive...Nonsense. They say it does not require any skill...I say it is one of the most skill based decks in the game.  They just like boring drawn out - play 1 card a turn games...A dream scenario for Kibler and other Control favored players aka: Rogue/Combo haters is..."I play a card and then you play a card" games! - AS BORING AS THE GAME GETS. Is it a wonder that the only change to Priest in the classic set that Brian Kibler favors is Inner Fire/Divine Favor? No. Why? Because he and other Control style players hate COMBO decks. Period end of story! If they had their way they would force all fun out of the game entirely surrounding multiple card strategy Combos. On The Caverns Below and Crystal Core he got his way twice! 2 NERFS! He calls up his boy Mike Donais and says (crying) Waw! There is another Rogue Combo deck ruining my 17 turn Control Priest strategy! NERF IT MIKE! NERF IT! If you won't NERF Gadgetzan Auctioneer at least NERF THIS! What does Mike Donais do? NERFS it twice for his old Magic the Gathering pal!  Here is a fact for the developers of Hearthstone...not every player in the game plays the same style, deck diversity is healthy for the game long term, and some of us really enjoy COMBO decks. It is unfortunate that the developers and Control player streamers are forcing us to play the game a way we do not want to. 

 

 So to break it down, these are your ''arguments'':

1. This card was underestimated

2. It is a different way to play rogue

3. Control players are just mad that they get countered

4.  Combo decks are hated

Well, I could go by these one by one, but I don't want to fill up a page with a block of text. Essentially you miss one thing: ultimately, this card was nerfed because of one reason: it is polarizing. This card is not just good against control, it is overpowered against control, whereas it's trash against aggro. This card isn't hated because it's underestimated, different, good against control or combo (which it isn't by the way). This card is hated because it's polarizing. Would you like to ladder in an online game of rock-paper-scissors? No? That's what it feels like for a lot of people. Queue quest rogue and hope to meet warlock, queue warlock and hope to meet mage or paladin, queue mage or paladin and hope to meet quest rogue, is what it often feels like.

And I'm not some delusional lowlife who thinks his play 1 card a turn for 30 minutes priest requires superior intellect. It just surprised me that you wrote so much and failed to address the main reason it gets nerfed.

 

 5. 90%+ of players base is 50iq kids, who can play only scripted decks which require zero thinking.

More than that it's the game itself is positioning as casual one, there is also couple of interesting decks beside quest rogue that are also require a lot of thinking, but they are below 40% winrate :D, quest rogue is the only deck with ~52% winrate that's are not scripted and yet it's got nerfed second time :D By the way quest rogue has only 2% popularity, while druid/lock/pals all has 10%+.

There was zoro reasons to nerf quest rogue(they should even buff it in my oppinon), but blizzards found moaning of 50 iq kids as good reason to do so, i'm glad that MTG Arena will be released soon, so i can stop play this trash HS, since there is no point of discussing this, nothing will be changed, just deal with it.

 

 

 This is my problem right now with hearth stone. Blizzard kowtows so much to kids whining about the only decks I find interesting. Quest rogue had an interesting and unique win condition which made games interesting. Same with raza priest,  probably the most unnecessary nerf in history. But the little kids with low iqs who only want to play aggro or cheat out big minions started crying and now this game is dumb. I don't know about magic or artifact, but I might check them out.

 Kids whining about a deck you find interesting? Quest Rogue isn't interesting. It's boring. It doesn't have a interesting and unique win condition. The win condition was finish quest as early as possible and you win. How is that interesting and unique? It doesn't interact with the board besides keeping aggro at bay till said quest was finished. The problem was that as soon as Quest Rogue finished the quest, that's it. They automatically won. If not, most of the time. I'm perfectly okay with the nerf. The meta slowed down so much that Quest Rogue became a problem, yet again, like the first time. Hence the second nerf. The problem wasn't the win rate Quest Rogue had or has. It's the fact that it almost completely shut out control decks without a chance. And please, don't retort with "but derrr aggro completely shuts out control anyways derrrr", because they don't. Control has a fighting chance vs aggro, where as placing Quest Rogue vs Control it was almost a 90%  favored to Quest Rogue.

Quote from RJ_JR >>

Nerf had no effect on call to arms

Quote from Kyomugen >>

 

Quote from xSaiko >>

 

Quote from Kyomugen >>

Whilst I agree that streaming your gameplay doesn't mean that you should have to deal with sniping, the fact remains that that doesn't mean it isn't still going to happen, and it's the streamer's choice to either accept that or not. If this sort of thing was happening during an official tournament event or something like that - particularly if an actual material prize was on the line - then it would be another matter entirely. But this is a guy playing casually at home in a manner that invites thousands of people to come watch every last little thing he does. It's not like Kripp getting sniped affects his income as a streamer/YouTuber at all anyway. Hell, you could argue he actually benefits from it somewhat by being able to make videos such as this one. He's well aware that people love to come watch him be miserable/salty. You could argue that he's in no position to criticise the actions of these snipers when he's profiting off of them.

Just some food for thought. Disclaimer: I love Kripp. Just trying not to be biased about this, is all.

While understandably it doesn't necessarily affect anything of monetary value, it does affect other aspects. Such as his win rate and ranking on arena. To some that is actually important. He's well aware of the people that enjoy the salt, however things like this can get a bit much. To a point that it's not even enjoyable watching for salt. He's definitely in a position to be able to criticize this because it's blatant harassment when there's a sniper guild purposely looking to cheat him out of wins. Whether he makes money off it or not. It's like saying a stripper should be okay with being harassed due to the nature of their job. No. It's still wrong.

That stripper comparison isn't even remotely applicable here. You're comparing sexual harassment to losing a few games of Hearthstone. What the fuck even?

Quote from Kyomugen >>

Whilst I agree that streaming your gameplay doesn't mean that you should have to deal with sniping, the fact remains that that doesn't mean it isn't still going to happen, and it's the streamer's choice to either accept that or not. If this sort of thing was happening during an official tournament event or something like that - particularly if an actual material prize was on the line - then it would be another matter entirely. But this is a guy playing casually at home in a manner that invites thousands of people to come watch every last little thing he does. It's not like Kripp getting sniped affects his income as a streamer/YouTuber at all anyway. Hell, you could argue he actually benefits from it somewhat by being able to make videos such as this one. He's well aware that people love to come watch him be miserable/salty. You could argue that he's in no position to criticise the actions of these snipers when he's profiting off of them.

Just some food for thought. Disclaimer: I love Kripp. Just trying not to be biased about this, is all.

While understandably it doesn't necessarily affect anything of monetary value, it does affect other aspects. Such as his win rate and ranking on arena. To some that is actually important. He's well aware of the people that enjoy the salt, however things like this can get a bit much. To a point that it's not even enjoyable watching for salt. He's definitely in a position to be able to criticize this because it's blatant harassment when there's a sniper guild purposely looking to cheat him out of wins. Whether he makes money off it or not. It's like saying a stripper should be okay with being harassed due to the nature of their job. No. It's still wrong.