Hearthpwn

Quote from SeraphicFire »

I dont find this card being that good? giving stuff to your opponent is not good, unless you combo it with MCT or anything else, but why you would run this card, for example over Pit Lord? That minion that you give to our opponent can just be buffed or anything else, or it simply make your Dragon a 5/4??? I have to see it first, I only see it "viable" in Dragon decks.

You still have the opportunity to remove whatever minion you give your opponent before the end of your turn. Nobody seems to realize this.

Quote from Rhyolth »

Quote from thej00 »

Quote from Rhyolth »

I don't understand the hype around this card : it is very similar to The Beast, which is not reknowned to be a great one.

Also, as a 4 drop, it is  very weak to card like Freezing Trap and Mirror Entity which will still be very common (unless Mad Scientist get nerfed) : outside of some MC Tech shenaningans, i don't really see any reason to play this card : way weaker than aPiloted Shredder for sure...

The Beast is essentially a 6/4 for 6. This is a 5/5 for 4. They are not similar in the least. Definitely not way weaker than piloted shredder. If you actually sit down and look at the popular minions in the meta game, you would realize that Hungry Dragon actually trades significantly better than piloted shredder.

Sure it's a slightly better deal (but be careful, you don't use the same method to calculate both value). Sure, the 5 attack is nice, but its also much easier to remove : if your dragon gets fireball'ed (or owned by any similar removal), you're screwed, and you would have been better off using a Yeti instead.

Let's look at it in a different way : is getting +1/+1 on one of your minion worth giving your opponent a free 1 drop ? Since you give more points of stats to your opponent (in most case 3 against 2 for you), it looks like a bad trade. So, "in a vacuum" this guy is already worst than a Yeti ... 

So, unless you have ways to negate this dragon's drawback (like an AoE), or to make it work to your advantage (MC Tech), Piloted Shredder or even Yetis are much safer picks.

I don't use the same value calculations for a reason. Beast has a death rattle, where as with Hungry Dragon, the 1 drop comes into play right away. You can't use the same type of value calculations for that.

Quote from Rhyolth »

I don't understand the hype around this card : it is very similar to The Beast, which is not reknowned to be a great one.

Also, as a 4 drop, it is  very weak to card like Freezing Trap and Mirror Entity which will still be very common (unless Mad Scientist get nerfed) : outside of some MC Tech shenaningans, i don't really see any reason to play this card : way weaker than aPiloted Shredder for sure...

The Beast is essentially a 6/4 for 6. This is a 5/5 for 4. They are not similar in the least. Definitely not way weaker than piloted shredder. If you actually sit down and look at the popular minions in the meta game, you would realize that Hungry Dragon actually trades significantly better than piloted shredder.

Quote from DoubleSummon »

instead of doing so much math..

simple math 5/6 is a 5 mana body so if you give the enemy a 1 mana minion it evens out that way to make it kinda balanced value wise he is a 5 mana-1 mana to the enemy

 

plus he is a dragon..

 

also you didn't consider the enemy gets the tempo here that's the biggest problem playing this slow card isn't that great TBH cause you jsut gave your enemy another minion to buff it's kind of a big deal agaisnt every deck that contains minion buffs (mainly aggros)

You have the opportunity to deal with it before you pass your turn to your opponent. It's not like you just play Hungry Dragon and your turn is over. Despite the fact that you are giving your opponent some tempo, it is a much larger net tempo gain in your favor.

Quote from lulavon »

I don't like the whole it's a 5/5 minion on average because it will summon a 1 attack minion 55.5% of the time, too simplistic given the amount of variables.  

Yeah the purpose of it is to condense and make it easier to analyse the card, but those numbers never really work like that during the game.

How can I put forth a more objective analysis?

Quote from Sare »

Quote from thej00 »

 Quote from Sare »

depends really on the rest of the cards from BRM. right now, I dont see the point to run this at all, aggro will gladly take the extra minion to smash your face, shaman paladin or rogue will gladly take it as a free body for some buff, warrior gladly takes it as a free execute proc, too... really the only ones that wont be really happy to see it are druid, mage and priest, but druid and mage have answers to minions like this anyway and wouldnt really have to deal with it in any different way than with yeti and priest will probably see rather this than yeti, too... 

 

Either they will deal with it just like with yeti or you will have to spent extra resources on cleaning up the drop, that might or might not be worth it. I guess the upside is it can clean up 4drops for "free" if you kill the 1drop. and lets be honest, plenty of 1drops arent really that bad, they just arent worth the extra card in the deck, but when you get them for free... well noone complains about free goldshire footman when its tacked onto tazdingo... for 1 extra mana...

Aggro decks on average get to do one additional point of damage to your face because of this card, which definitely should not be the deciding factor in the game. Warrior is making a poor decision if they execute Hungry Dragon. Rogues usually don't prep-Oil on T4, and if they use it to kill off Hungry Dragon, that is perfectly fine because it's less damage coming at your face later. Paladins don't really run any buffs. Shaman obviously can potentially get great value from the one drop.

Finally, your last point is kind of moot because Hungry Dragon can kill the Goldshire and Tazdingo.....and then go kill something else too.

 

aggro decks dont really care about your yeti anyway, they will likely go face and most of their minions, when trading, dont survive yeti either, it can serve as an extra argus/direwolf/abusive target too, warrior executing this is just fine if the situation calls for it, its not like he doesnt have shield slams and weapons to deal with any medium sized minions anyway, rogues will deal with it the same way the deal with yeti or bigger stuff like DotC - backstab evis, some paladins still run BoMs and protectors in aggro-ish decks...

I sinply dont see any deck that wouldnt have trouble dealing with yeti but would be in trouble because of this dragon. personally, I think the natural ramp from mechwarper with t2 spider tanks or t3 yetis is far scarier than a single 4mana 5/6 drop with a downside

Your aggro opponents can go face, sure, but with how favorably Hungry Dragon can trade, if you've had decent turns 1-3, you can easily ensure that they run out of steam. If a Warrior executes this in a control matchup, he would be substantially behind when the 6+ attack minions started hitting the board. It's fine vs. midrange decks to execute something like this, but it would be a mistake to execute two of them. Shockadin is extremely rare to encounter in competitive play, so keeping them in mind while constructing a deck is a poor decision in my opinion.

Hungry Dragon has more health and does more damage than a yeti, so I'm confused as to why you think this is just as easy to deal with. If you have board control, or a weapon in hand when you play this card, it is exceptional, and it is obviously also exceptional even if you're just dropping it on an empty board.

Quote from Achillius »

To say that theres no drawback is simply incorrect bud. If you're killing the one drop with Light's Justice, you're sacrificing a weapon charge and your health. If you have to use SHRs, you're obviously sacrificing those too. As Mr. Newton said, for each and every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

stupid aesthetic stuff that i don't notice :(

now i am s a d b o y s

 Quote from Sare »

Aggro decks on average get to do one additional point of damage to your face because of this card, which definitely should not be the deciding factor in the game. Warrior is making a poor decision if they execute Hungry Dragon. Rogues usually don't prep-Oil on T4, and if they use it to kill off Hungry Dragon, that is perfectly fine because it's less damage coming at your face later. Paladins don't really run any buffs. Shaman obviously can potentially get great value from the one drop.

Finally, your last point is kind of moot because Hungry Dragon can kill the Goldshire and Tazdingo.....and then go kill something else too.

Quote from arrumph »

Trying to subtract the stats of the average minion it summons from the dragon's stats is a bit reductive. It's actually better than that makes it seem, because you get the first choice of how to trade against the opponent's new 1-drop. If you have control of the board or if the board is even, you can probably kill the 1-drop for "free" (hit it with a Harvest Golem or Spider Tank or whatever you played on turn 3, hit it with a weapon, run some tokens into it, etc.).

Hungry Dragon is really good.

A very fair point my friend, but the point still stands that you're either forced to reduce the value of another minion, utilize cheap&appropriate removal, ignore it and lose HP/allow it to make a more favorable trade with something on your board, or take a small net tempo loss by hero powering in order to deal with the resulting 1 drop, so there is a slight negative effect. Subtracting attack from Hungry Dragon's health seemed like the simplest way to objectively analyze it for all classes, but if you have an alternative way of examining it I'm all ears.

A well thought out response, and I completely agree.

Quote from igniteice »

How many classes can easily deal with a 5/6 though straight out? Warrior can run the 1-mana drop into your 5/6 and execute it (without using any of his own resources to damage it). Priest can SW:D it. Any class that runs cards that can buff it will benefit (defender of argus, cleric, paladins, etc.). Just because you get a 5/6 on the field early on, don't discount how easily some classes can counter that, or how they can use their new found free 1 drop.

By turn four, every single class has a way of dealing with this card. Obviously it's a pain if it gets innervated, but players SHOULD be rewarded when they build a good deck and draw well.

Quote from evilsiopao »

Think about it this way. Yes you are paying four mana for a 5/6 body. But the moment you invest cards and resources to remove the summoned guy, you are paying more: more mana, possibly an additional card or a creature you have on board. If you don't want to lose this resources, you kill this summoned minion with the dragon. ~56% its a 1 mana minion but a lot of 1 mana minions are gimicky and can deal more than 1. In that case, its on average a tall strider if you play it when you are behind and in no way able to clear that minion the same turn

That doesn't mean its bad. I believe its body would hold its cons. Especially for druid. I love this in my druid

So, the gimmicky 1 attack minions are Undertaker, Mana Wyrm, Cogmaster, Warbot, and Lightwarden. The most gimmicky in my mind is Undertaker. It's obviously quite possible that if an Undertaker is dropped, that he'll be buffed to a 2/2 given the prevalence of Piloted Shredder. Mana Wyrm only really scares me if it drops for a Mage because if he has a Fireball in hand it's a ridiculous tempo swing in favor of the mage, but the odds of this happening are very low, just like the odds of a mech deck getting a Cogmaster, the odds of a warrior getting a Warbot, and a Priest getting a Lightwarden. Think about how low the odds are for all of those things to happen. At the end of the day, even if you count Undertaker as a two power minion because you expect he'll be buffed, there's still a 58.8% chance that you're essentially getting a 5/5 or 5/6 out of this card. Considering the fact that Hungry Dragon trades up so well, and at worst two for ones usually, it's completely worth it to use some form of minor removal early on in my mind if a worst case scenario card drops from the Dragon: when you look at how infrequent a worst case scenario drop occurs however, the odds of having to waste resources are incredibly low. Even in the worst case scenarios, Druid, Paladin, Mage, and Rogue all can usually deal with the resulting drops with their hero powers, Warlocks have Mortal Coil, Warriors ping with Taskmaster, Priests have Wild Pyro shenanigans/Smite, Shamans can Flametongue/Rockbiter if they need to, etc.

Where are we informed that this is a rogue card? I'm hoping that this is neutral because it looks AWESOME in control warrior. It's exactly what is needed to deal with Quartermaster.

Pit Lord usually out-trades this card, so

Quote from CounterDeckBuilder »

Common card all classes. -.-

Pit Lord make him 7/7 again?

Pit Lord usually out-trades this card, so I don't think so.