Hearthpwn

Quote from 3nnui >>

The problem is that control does not pay off because of all the ridiculous RNG. Real control is grinding to a lock down position. There is so much RNG in the game (and there may even be a catch up mechanism in the RNG), that you can be punished for achieving a dominant position by the game itself. That is why Raza priest is so effective, it is actually a combo deck, not a control deck. 

It relies on the blizz RNG in the card draw to answer each play until it achieves it's combo and then it is GG. Because there is not forcing discard from the other player, you cant punish a player for drawing or for holding combo pieces, so until discard is a thing, you are stuck playing aggro or combo.

The game becomes more and more luck based, perhaps the average player does find that fun, I am finding it less so. 

?

Latest expansion seems to be pretty much "let big shiny things happen randomly".

Either I win by them not having a chance or I lose by not having a chance.

It's about as annoying as HS gets.

Yes, it's horrible in those decks.

If you are making a mid-range list and you find yourself frequently needing doomsayer, then you should be rethinking your list, because  it is not a good mid-range list.

Quote from scorpyon >>

I mean, I am always quite flattered when I see people playing my deck ideas like Razakus Priest or Keleseth Rogue. XD
Gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to know that I am shaping the meta...

But seriously, I have often wondered why people get so tight in the pants over the idea of learning from those better than them. (Don't get me wrong, I have been frustrated to see the same decks used repeatedly, but I put that down to some people not having that particular skill - how to build a killer deck idea)
I mean, if you want to get better at something, you have to learn from people who are better than you, right?

In a similar vein, it's one thing to copy a deck you saw a Youtuber play, but another thing entirely to know how to play that deck (which is a separate skill entirely). I lost count of the number of times I see someone running a Pirate Warrior attempting to out-tempo me with board control, or a Dragon Priest playing synergy cards with no dragons in hand. Misplays are commonplace until you build the knowledge of how a deck is supposed to work.

Perhaps much of the frustration comes from the usual salt of knowing that the particular deck you are running is not teched to beat the one you hate seeing?

Without master deck-builders, those who don't know how to build a good strong deck will never get a real chance to let their play-skill shine as they need a deck that lives up to their expectations. And that's where us deckbuilders come into play, really. We do the experiments and the synergy investigations - and we love to test silly meme decks to find that one wild, unstoppable combo or mad synergy play.

But without others taking those decks and making them work and rise to fame, our efforts our wasted. 
So in short, a brief thank you to the netdeckers for stress-testing our decks for us and taking them up to tier 1, making us proud!

Now, go invent your own blasted deck ideas, yer scum-sucking netdecking waste of spaces...! *ahem!*

 

Why nerf it?

It isn't anymore broken than other top competitive stuff. It's brokenness just happens at the end of a controllish deck with strong control tools. 

I'm sorry you guys can't roflstomp yet another slow deck just because you have so many chances to highroll, but my sympathy is limited. I've played CW a ton and seen how completely rotten this game has become towards slow decks. You have to wade through oodles of bullshit rounds compared to a fast deck which can just kill people before they get a chance too. And it's boring and frustrating as hell.

I'm glad there is a slow deck now that puts you guys on the clock.

Used to be Grommash. Powerful, designed well, can be played around.

Drawback is that warrior class is completely dead and buried apart from a castrated pirate warrior which was a BS deck to begin with.

All the keleseth decks have one card that give them power

Bonemare.

I'm not saying they need a nerf, I'm saying that targeting anything else is folly.

Casual is a collection format, and as such people will play what they want.

And dropping nametags here is generally frowned about, and frankly just sounds hysteric. I mean, gee golly, you met a deck you didn't approve of. Let's start a thread.

Hunter's hero power makes it a very dangerous class to tune. It's one of the few hero powers that "scale up" as the game progresses (everyone who has been "put on the clock" by hunter has experienced this), since you tend to damage an increasingly large portion of your opponent's remaining health.

In hunter the distance between being a "bad", "ok" or "overpowered" class is very thin, perhaps thinner than for any other class.

Do me believe leak? Nope. Me wait for official announcement? Yep. Is me retard? Nope. Me am smart? Yep.

What kind of person reads and then votes? I'm not participating, but can't undo my vote (10-15)

I am just going to copy-paste what I wrote in the comment section regarding this nerf and add a few more notes.

"I am thoroughly disappointed because control warrior takes yet another hit. I couldn't care less about Pirates,I barely played the deck. First it was Execute and now this...If things weren't bad enough as it is with Scourgelord Garrosh having one of the worst Death Knight hero powers here comes a nerf that erases any chances for a good control Warrior deck to see play other than quest Warrior. I would rather see changes in other cards that every Pirate Warrior deck utilizes such as Arcanite Reaper, Kor'kron Elite or even Heroic Strike. The description clarifies that the change was made to lower the power level of Pirate Warrior(as Pirates complement Fiery War Axe's usage) but apparently they didn't consider what the effect is on other, less popular archetypes..."

It is uncalled for, and the collateral damage to the rest of the decks that utilize this card for early minion removal rather than just going face(the regular pirate smorc warrior approach) get punished. I would not mind a change that someone else has mentioned here, in which it can only be used against minions. It reduces the flexibility of the card by removing one of the two options, to push for face damage and seems like a legit nerf, since their excuse is to tone down the Pirate Warrior. Pirate warrior players won't include a weapon that can't go face as they use it more often than not to go face. 

The problem is that control does not pay off because of all the ridiculous RNG. Real control is grinding to a lock down position. There is so much RNG in the game (and there may even be a catch up mechanism in the RNG), that you can be punished for achieving a dominant position by the game itself. That is why Raza priest is so effective, it is actually a combo deck, not a control deck. 

It relies on the blizz RNG in the card draw to answer each play until it achieves it's combo and then it is GG. Because there is not forcing discard from the other player, you cant punish a player for drawing or for holding combo pieces, so until discard is a thing, you are stuck playing aggro or combo.

The game becomes more and more luck based, perhaps the average player does find that fun, I am finding it less so. 

Quote from brilliant_gnome >>

All the keleseth decks have one card that give them power

Bonemare.

I'm not saying they need a nerf, I'm saying that targeting anything else is folly.

I know it's no news, but I just used this deck for the Lick Kind and I kinda felt sorry for him.

Overwhelmed it with double Molten Giants in the first try, in the starting hand. Just beautiful.

### Custom Hunter2
# Class: Hunter
# Format: Wild
#
# 1x (1) Arcane Shot
# 1x (1) Hunter's Mark
# 1x (1) Play Dead
# 1x (2) Bear Trap
# 1x (2) Dart Trap
# 1x (2) Explosive Trap
# 1x (2) Freezing Trap
# 1x (2) Grievous Bite
# 1x (2) Misdirection
# 1x (2) Snake Trap
# 1x (2) Snipe
# 1x (2) Venomstrike Trap
# 1x (3) Animal Companion
# 1x (3) Cloaked Huntress
# 1x (3) Devilsaur Egg
# 1x (3) Eaglehorn Bow
# 1x (3) Infest
# 1x (3) Terrorscale Stalker
# 1x (4) Spiritsinger Umbra
# 1x (5) Corpse Widow
# 1x (5) Feugen
# 1x (5) Skelemancer
# 1x (5) Sludge Belcher
# 1x (5) Stalagg
# 1x (6) Reno Jackson
# 1x (6) Sylvanas Windrunner
# 1x (7) Abominable Bowman
# 1x (10) N'Zoth, the Corruptor
# 2x (25) Molten Giant
#
AAEBAR8cjQG1A8cDhwTJBK4G7QbDCP4MuQ2BDoQOhQ7RFMMWzRa5qwLgrALEtAKrwgLJwgLYwgKGwwLYygKdzAKczQLGzgLt0QIB3AoA
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

First of all, I'm no priest apologist. I used to main warrior and chiefly control warrior and have for the three metas prior to this one. I generally have disliked priest a bit, as it is a control class built mainly to prey on control classes. Which has always felt a bit unnecessary as the rock, paper and scissors aspect of HS gets thrown quite out of whack as a result.

But, the experiences of piloting CW through its ups and downs in the meta has taught me a few lessons, which is why I think razapriest is absolutely essential addition to the meta.

And these lessons are basically "the power of bullshit". What do I mean by "bullshit"? Well, as we all know HS has a lot of random crazy effects and this has been growing more and more frequent. While we used to have maybe some zany piloted shredder turns and frustrating Unstable Portal rolls, these days we see this kind of effects into most competitive decks.

And one thing that is important to know is that this hurts slow decks a lot more than it does fast decks. Why? Because let's say on these things you highroll 50% of the time, lowroll 25% of the time and get "meh" 25% of the time. The numbers aren't correct, but the principle stands - if you don't highroll quite abit it won't get played. This means that slow decks with a fixed gameplan (control decks or combo decks) have to wade through a lot more of this than fast decks. This is also evident in the meta. You can babbling book into something insane, but versus a quick deck the mere act of sacrificing curve to play a subpar monster may very well mean you already lost. Versus a slow deck on the other hand, you have all the time in the world. Pirate warrior see little effect of "bullshit", they're too fast. Control warriors has to fight through all of it, because their plan is slow. And you can't really plan for it. Some shaman gets 3 tirions in a row, and you're just toast. The pirate warrior wouldn't even care, because you were either already dead, hanging by the ropes or he had conceded going for the next fast game.

So basically the traditional control has been dead a long time outside diehards. Control mage could cling by on the power of iceblock, buying those 2 extra turns. Old-fashioned control priest? You'd be lucky to get a 35% winrate.

And in comes razapriest. You have all the control tools. But you also have an extremely powerful and broken endgame combo. Now suddenly all that bullshit isn't that important, because your opponent is on the clock too. In a traditional control deck those removes you did almost didn't matter, because new bullshit was on its way in the next round. You couldn't plan for anything, because you don't know what happens anymore. I've seen facehunters outvalue me with my own monsters. No classic control deck is really good against stuff like that. But now suddenly the picture is a bit different. Now every remove you do puts your opponent more and more against the wall. And that is good. That is how control tools should work. You have a win condition that is so broken that you can't just highroll a few times on cards with random on them and win.

So yes, the deck is kind of silly. It is kind of broken. But as long as the game has gone down this design path of it being close to useless to have a plan relying on slowly building up value from a couple of big expensive minions, it's what we need.

So in that aspect it makes me happy. I've seen CW dwindle and die because curvestone and highrolling has become the most competitive way to play HS. And I'm glad there is a deck filled with traditional control tools that can fight back and say "I got answers, but this time I also have a win condition".

Seriously, put x2 Backstab in this deck and maybe, just maybe, you win a game sometimes.

Quote from brilliant_gnome >>

 

You need something more for for 1 than just alleycat... hunter is toast without board. With this deck you could even consider Chow. With so few one-drops I would consider dropping razormaws.

And I would use tracking instead of loot hoarder, you will have a much better chance of pulling the cards you need.

Stitched tracker should fit excellently in this deck. Haunted creeper should be strictly better than kindly grandmother on 2. 

I think 1 bonemare is enough, especially if you include tracking and stitched tracker.