Hearthpwn

I believe the original post was that evolving a 3-drop into Flamewreathed Faceless would be very powerful.

Quote from Empyrium77 jump

TGT, bringing more RNG, bringing more pure powercreep, is loser as whole.
Why even debate on which is the worst of all that is bad.
In case you missed it: this game has gone to hell. It already had, but now for sure.

If the game has gone to hell and everything is terrible, why are you bothering to post? Just leave and get on with your life.

To reply to the main thread: it's hard to say right now. Blizzard appears to be pushing for several new deck archetypes for several different classes. Beast Druid is one example. Madness (discard) Warlock is another. It's just really hard to say what's the worst. The current meta thinks Druid, Shaman, Priest, and Rogue are fairly weak, but things seem to be slowing down (which favors the first 3).

The biggest barrier to understanding which class got the weakest cards is that it's really difficult to think outside of the current meta. TGT will change up the meta. There's no possible way for it not to. GvG did, bringing in Mech mage, and BRM did with Patron Warrior and (on the fringe) Malylock and the new version of Freeze Mage. I'd say Shaman got some cool new tools, as did Priest. Druid got a weird (Astral) card, as well as another bad piece of removal, but Aviana looks awesome, and the beast synergy cards are aggressively costed and well-statted, both of which are good signs. Warrior didn't seem to get a whole lot other than Varian, though none of it is terrible really. Warlock got a few pieces of crap and a few really conceptually cool cards (the discard is good cards), but not enough of the cool cards to build a deck around yet. Rogue got some things that are mediocre. Mage combo got a lot of really fun toys. Hunters got some gems, but they don't fit into the current face aggro decks at all, Blizzard is still pushing real hard for a midrange/control beast tribal hunter deck. Paladin, as ususal, got a really awesome midrange creature, plus some spells that are really awesome for midrange decks.

Which class got the worst cards? Warlock. A lot of it just isn't playable. As for which class will be the worst after realease? No clue. Despite getting bad/not enough of to make a theme deck around cards, Warlock is very strong right now, so I doubt it'll be the worst. If I had to guess I'd say Rogue, since the new class cards don't seem to help it a huge amount. Rogue right now seems very confused about where it wants to be - is it a combo deck? Midrange? Aggro? Control? Who knows? None of the new cards really scream for Rogue to go one way or another.

GP warrior doesn't seem to need nerfs is the thing. It's not easy to play around, but you can play around it. Malylock and other Malygos OTKs don't see nearly enough play to be considered OP, they just aren't. They're all playable, some more playable than others. I'm not disputing that GP warrior is strong, it is definitely strong. But as you said, in order to OTK, you need 5 cards plus a Thaurissan hit on several of those cards. That's a 6 card combo. GP warrior rarely OTKs for that reason - it takes half your damn hand. GP warrior is good because it has high burst potential, one OTK combo, and plays with a strong control base that allows it to stall out the game. It doesn't seem to need a nerf though really. And if you were to nerf it, you would need to nerf one of the Warrior-specific cards. The thing is, if you nerf Thaurissan, you nerf control. And I don't think there's anyone in the world who thinks that the most broken thing in Hearthstone is its control decks. Thaurissan is one of the main reasons Handlock is still in the meta. 

I see the OP is largely a complaint about combo decks, the majority of which are not prominent in the meta or in pro play. This post feels like salt after losing to too many Malygos decks, i.e. decks which have high power but low consistency and therefore low winrate. I don't think nerfing anything is really the way to go right now, I would far and away prefer to see new counters introduced in TGT. I certainly don't think Thaurissan needs a nerf. Value for value, he just isn't overpowered when you look at the numbers (see the forum post ranking the most OP cards in Hearthstone - I did the math). And you need to be very careful whenever you nerf a neutral card that sees widespread use. Thaurissan really enables control decks to come back after they've stabilized, and to get an edge against other control decks.

How does this interact with Thaurissan? It could be that Thaurissan has to go after Aviana (which makes the combo useless). Or it could be that if Thaurissan reduces your minions' mana costs by 1 and you play Aviana, they cost 0. Aviana is the most exciting card in the expansion for me either way, but this could be really, really OP.

Quote from Unforgiven_Joker jump

Should work in handlock to get down in life faster than tapping, also one could taunt this up as 3 hp is quite the health pool for being a 2 mana creature.

Umm. This is not a Handlock card by any means. You don't actually want to lose life as a Handlock. You'll die if you hurt yourself to much. Tap is already enough damage. The molten giant combo is only there to save you if you happen to take too much damage. Plus, if u was going to taunt a 2 drop, I would taunt an ancient watcher, which has 2 more health and actually taunts, rather than just dealing the damage right back to me. Don't get me wrong, this card is great in demon zoo, but it has no place in Handlock.

Quote from Zenmasta jump

Yeah Druid requires a major nerf right now rather than a new archetype.

Sarcasm? Druid is in a really weak spot right now. It isn't seeing any high level tournament play, nor is it even really a thing on ladder anymore. The class really suffers from a lack of options, or rather, too few cards to work with per deck. Druid has 2 archetypes right now, both of which are based around the same core. There's straight Ramp, which runs no combo, favoring Ancient of War and friends (good vs Patron, can't kill Handlocks), and then there's combo Druid (kills Handlocks, dies to Patron), which obviously runs double combo. Token doesn't exist anymore because it's bad in the current Patron/Handlock meta. The thing Druid needs most right now is a new archetype, one that can deal with both combo and control at least reasonably well.

I picked Ancient of Lore here. I don't think that any minion is the "best" though. The problem is that it's all too situational. For all of those minions, there are cases where I would and wouldn't want to play or have them. To me, Lore seemed to have the fewest bad situations around it. In a vacuum though, we can math it. This is assuming no board state, 30 life on both players, and this is the only card in your hand. You have "cards" in your deck, but we're assuming those are just the average draw, and only so that we don't discount draw effects. Let's go from top to bottom math-wise.

Tirion Fordring:

Tirion is massive. When you can't silence him, he ends the game. His stats are 6/6, putting him at around 5.5 mana already. He has taunt and divine shield, each of which are worth around .5 mana, so we get up to 6.5 mana. The deathrattle plays a 5/3 weapon. This is worth 5.5 mana, making a full-value Tirion worth around 12 mana. He only costs 8, giving us effectively +4 mana for his arbitrary score.

Dr. Boom:

Boom is the poster child for overplayed. He must be in every deck for a reason, right? He puts out a whopping 7/7 and 2 1/1s worth of stats. That's very slightly worse than a 9/9 (in a vacuum. I'm not forgetting BGH). So let's value him at around 8 mana from stats. His Boom Bots do an average of 4 damage, which is worth ~2 mana when it's randomly dealt. This puts Dr. Boom at 10 mana. He costs 7, so his score is +3.

Ragnaros the Firelord:

Instant value the second he hits the board. That's what has made Ragnaros a favorite of control decks. He's an 8/8, worth about 7.5 mana stat-wise, but he can't attack. This is hard to value, but if we look at Ancient Watcher, I think it's safe to de-value Rag by 2 mana for his inability to hit things. So 5.5 mana in stats. That said, he "attacks" every turn without fear of retribution, dealing a guaranteed 8 damage. This is worth about 6 mana when dealt randomly AND efficiently (Avenging Wrath), so I'd rate Rag's at around 5 or 5.5 mana. This puts him up to around 10.5-11 mana. +2.5-3 for him.

Mad Scientist:

Draws and plays a card. Thins the deck, gets value, grants board state. An all-around beater. He's a 2/2, which is worth around 1.5 mana. His effect draws a card which averages 2 mana across all classes and then plays it. Drawing a card is worth 1.5, playing is worth 2, so his value is around 5, rating him at +3.

Loatheb:

Gives you board presence and stalls your opponent's spells, saving your minions from most board clears and essentially gaining you a turn against spell classes. He's a 5/5, which is worth very very slightly less than 5 mana. Call it 4.95. His effect is hard to value, since it's nearly unique. In fact, all other effects that increase mana cost increase it for creatures. I'd call it similar to a Frost Nova but for spells, but with the ability of your opponent to still play the spells, I'd say it's a 2.5 mana value. This gives Loatheb a value of 7.45, or +2.45.

Sludge Belcher:

The stickiest taunt in the game. So good that even Hunters run it. He's a 3/5 taunt, which is worth a solid 4 mana. He summons a 1/2 taunt on death, worth 1 mana. Being able to summon a minion on death is worth between 0 and 2.5 mana, depending on whether you look at Harvest Golem or Sneed's Old Shredder. I think this is more similar to Haunted Creeper though, worth about 1 mana. Thus puts Sludge Belcher at +1 mana.

Knife Juggler:

Lets you go face and trade up. Juggler doesn't work too well in our scenario though, since you have no way to activate him. In a vacuum, he's only worth what he says he's worth: 2. He makes your "average" topdeck better though, and 1 damage is worth .5 mana, so maybe he earns a 2.5? I really don't think he's a contender for best card in game though - he needs too many other things to come together to work.

Azure Drake:

So good that Trump once rated it as the best card in Arena. Value on a stick. It's a 4/4, worth 3.5 mana. It has spell damage, worth about .5 mana, and draws a card, worth about 1.5 mana. This sets it up as 5.5 mana in a vacuum, or +0.5.

Ancient of Lore:

The essential card in any Druid deck. It fills your hand or stops you from dying, and puts pressure on the board to boot. 5/5 is worth around 4.5 mana. We're assuming a vacuum here, where we go for the most value, so we drew off its effect. That's 3 mana of card draw. Blizzard also has decided that cards which have "choose one" will often be overcosted by 0.5-1 mana. So Lore is worth between 8.5 and 9 mana, or +1.4-2.

Emperor Thaurissan:

Also know as Emperor Balanced, he sets up and makes viable all kinds of control and combo decks. He's a 5/5, worth 4.5 mana. His effect is worth 0 in a vacuum. So let's assume, special case, that we have average cards in hand. The average number of cards in hand at turn 6 for an average deck should be 4-5, or 4.5 in our case. This leaves Thaurissan at +3 mana, since he literally gains us 4.5 mana when we play him. However, he often in real life gets far more value, averaging about 6 cards in hand in the decks which run him. So in the real world, he's more like a +4.5 card.

This means that from a value perspective in a vacuum scenario which disregards all situational play and tries to average things out, Tirion Fordring is the best card in the game. It comes as no real surprise - he's in every Paladin deck barring Shockadin, and is the only card rated at 100 in HearthArena (the max a card can be rated). In the real world, a Tirion that sticks is a game-winner. He even dodges the ever-present BGH. Unfortunately, Tirion is often a dead card in hand or on board, as he is incredibly susceptible to silence effects and spot removal like Hex and Polymorph. He requires some amount of setup to play, which makes him occasionally useless. Dr. Boom is a close second in real life, in my opinion, since he creates an instant board state and requires no setup whatsoever besides plays to ensure you don't die. That's why he is so prevalent - he's the best at his mana cost and the best at what he does, which is to create a board where there was none before. 

I'll be streaming this deck all week at the start of the new season - www.twitch.tv/nok_1267

Quote from DKnG666 »

Quote from 727Dabs »

 Why should someone get away with verbal abuse, especially someone forcing another to be subjected to racial slurs and what not. All because they're the ones clearly upset about a loss.  

Uhh... because of the freedom of speech? There was a place where you couldn't offend someone without going to labor camp for 15 years... it was called Soviet Union... Unless someone's speech induces and call for direct physical violence you can say anything to anyone especially in private. In our situation the receiver should contact Blizzard to suspend flamer's account and can call the police that he got threatened (although imo it's over-interpretation) but why did he go public with it? To tell others what to do in such a situation? Or was it the need for attention using this whole offence as an audience-magnet? I bet on the second ;)

"Why should I be abused because I was tricked into believing they wanted to be my friend AND not an enemy." - sorry this one is so inane I can't even comment on that... It shows what kind of person you are - someone who can find an abuse/offense/flame in anything because has issues with his own personality and self-value. I sincerely pity you because you're getting hurt by something said by a stranger dumbass like his words mean anything to you while they really don't. The fact that you "feel abused because you were tricked" clearly shows how naive and immature you are. Don't worry though - life will serve you worse situations than flaming in HS and the sooner you get over it the better it is for you ;)

Remember - someone can offend you only when you feel offended :) As long as you don't look and act like a victim he doesn't triumph. 

Remember this one too - reacting in this manner kinda brings you down to flamer's level... unless you're a true-born policeman-crusader-inquisitor-priest-moralist ;) 

Oh, don't pull the freedom of speech card. Sure, it's good to learn to take an insult, but you don't HAVE to. It doesn't bring you to the flamer's level to try and make a community a more pleasant place. In addition, the first amendment applies only to the government. Private corporations and individuals are free to censor speech in any manner they deem fit.

And Jesus Christ man. You're pulling every single insane anti-victim argument out your ass here, aren't you? That comment has like every antagonistic argument about rape victims I've ever heard rolled into a trivial thing about Hearthstone and some asshole.

This is a really solid deck. I'm running the same core, just a few different tech choices to fill in a slight lack of cards (no second Force of Nature nor a Dr. Boom). So far I have about 20-30 games on it, and it's gone very well, I'm seeing something like a 60-65% winrate overall, and better against a lot of the more common decks. It's solid in the early and midgame, and the number of turn 1 Innervate combos you can pull with a Mechwarper are insane. My best game had turn 1 The Coin, Innervate, Mechwarper, Mechwarper, Anodized Robo Cub, Harvest Golem. My opponent's mech mage deck just seemed so lackluster by comparison.

godammit why you gotta do that to my wisp!

http://i.imgur.com/2b1fzt0.png

I got rid of a Voidwalker and added in a Shadowflame for much needed AoE, and I'm doing much better than before.