Hearthpwn

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Quote from Wazabi >>

Another topic about the same thing.. wow

 ofc there is another topic when their fix is a total failure, I just cannot fanthom why people like you even post? like what is the point? to show that you got nothing going on or any cares for anything? lol gtfo

 

 Pot calling the kettle black.... 

Quote from IDProG123 >>

Ah yes, Druid, a class where either you destroy your opponent with seven 8/8 Carnival Clowns on Turn 7 and seven 6/4 minions on Turn 5 or get destroyed by aggro or board clears.

And all this is simply because Blizzard still tries to stick to a terrible design choice that is class identity. Class identity is horrible because it reduces diversity so badly. This is not an RPG game like WoW, let the classes have all things needed to be diverse like board clears, group buffs, single buffs, removals, small minions, medium minions, big minions, and more. Don't limit them.

 

 I like the idea of identity and different classes playing differently. This is the problem the devs have, you get people who sit on the opposite ends of things and I expect that sometimes, they have just go with making the game they want to make it. There's only so much pandering you can do. 

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Quote from P4dge >>

 How is this still going? Its an awful idea and won't be implemented, for good reason. You aren't supposed to be able to know what's coming so you can play around it, that's stupid. Good players already do this I wish I could do it to their extent but I can't because I don't care enough to really learn everything. I don't know half the cards by name even. If I wanted to, I could learn it and get better at anticipating and second guessing what they've taken from a discover. Playing around something isn't because you know it's there, it's anticipating that it may be and thus, making plays around that possibility. Sometimes this is easier than others, such as reading your opponents deck and knowing they are going to have X card and they will likely use it on X turn, so you play with that in mind. 

They could potentially tone down the amount of discover, although I personally really like it but this is a terrible, terrible idea. You aren't thinking it will be good for the game, you're thinking it will be good for YOU.

Do any other card games do this outside of niche effects and situations such as physical games and showing you haven't cheated?

Heck, poker would be way better for me and a ton fairer from my perspective if I got to see everyone's starting hand or at least the additional cards. It's not fair that they always seem to have exactly the right hand to beat me or I fold and find out my hand would have won! NOT FAIR! Change the rules to benefit me please! This isn't a direct analogy, just tongue in cheek. 

There was an instructive quote in yesterday's Hearthstone Top Decks article which addressed the relationship between random generation and skill:

"As randomness in the game increases, the skill cap becomes lower. It becomes impossible to play around all the random outcomes, and the edge you can gain in the game becomes smaller."

https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/is-random-rng-resource-generation-in-hearthstone-too-strong/

I didn't see many posters who were interested in the idea say it was because it would make things better for them personally. Some people like the idea, some don't. Nothing wrong with having a discussion.

 

 Yeah that's fair, discuss away. It really isn't up to me what others can or can't discuss so I shouldn't have really gone there. 

 How is this still going? Its an awful idea and won't be implemented, for good reason. You aren't supposed to be able to know what's coming so you can play around it, that's stupid. Good players already do this I wish I could do it to their extent but I can't because I don't care enough to really learn everything. I don't know half the cards by name even. If I wanted to, I could learn it and get better at anticipating and second guessing what they've taken from a discover. Playing around something isn't because you know it's there, it's anticipating that it may be and thus, making plays around that possibility. Sometimes this is easier than others, such as reading your opponents deck and knowing they are going to have X card and they will likely use it on X turn, so you play with that in mind. 

They could potentially tone down the amount of discover, although I personally really like it but this is a terrible, terrible idea. You aren't thinking it will be good for the game, you're thinking it will be good for YOU.

Do any other card games do this outside of niche effects and situations such as physical games and showing you haven't cheated?

Heck, poker would be way better for me and a ton fairer from my perspective if I got to see everyone's starting hand or at least the additional cards. It's not fair that they always seem to have exactly the right hand to beat me or I fold and find out my hand would have won! NOT FAIR! Change the rules to benefit me please! This isn't a direct analogy, just tongue in cheek. 

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Quote from thebitterfig >>

I posit the key lesson: it's often ineffective to use targeted nerfs to fix widespread and determined power creep.

 I counterpose that that was never the intent, nor it is a desirable, achievable or realistic goal.

 Why would you be pro-powercreep? At the very least it long-term devalues your collection since the newest cards will be more powerful and hence more desirable. Only the newest players benefit from it and only while they are new. And ofc Blizzard which through this inflation of cards forces you to buy more new packs to stay ahead. And if I wanted to list the bad sides of powercreep I could write pages. Really makes no sense to me. 

 There's always going to be 'power creep', otherwise we'd just be stuck with slightly different versions of chill wind yeti, maybe a stat or two switch from attack to health or whatever and a different art style. 

The game has to move on, evolve and progress. What was fun 5 years ago isn't fun anymore if that's all you've put out and you can't release hundreds of cards a year and just tweak the stat lines. You need to keep existing players interested and this means raising the power level over time.

I don't think I've played a game that is updated regularly that doesn't do this. New classes, moves and skill trees that get added are generally more powerful.

They tend to knock it down a touch on rotation but it's reasonable to me that throughout the 2 years of a rotation that the power of cards increases. I'd personally find it boring otherwise. I suspect others would too after years of the same sort of cards.

I don't think it's necessary. When I see really good players play they quite often narrow down the best options from the discover and play around that. This is why they are better players than me I can't do that, I don't know the cars pools well enough and that's part of the skill, understanding and knowing the game.

I also don't predict opponent's moves as well. I can do it to a degree but not as well or as consistency as the top players. They have a deeper understanding of the game than me and that shoukd benefit them.

All this does is reduce the skill gap really and I don't see a need for that. The worse a player is the more they seem to blame rng and claim things are completely out if their control. They aren't completely out of our control though. You shouldn't know what cards your opponents have, this pretty much just dumb the game down.

It would benefit me personally quite a lot but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. 

Quote from RaptorWithWings >>

If that’s the case, then I’m here to support that 0.01%

 There are people who appreciate it, this is a fantastic article and completely something I have been looking for. I'm not a huge duels player traditionally and not really knowing the treasures and general 'meta' makes it quite hard to get into. I've been playing a fair amount over the last couple of weeks and this is a great read, I'll be returning to it often! 

Yeah I think the pressure it would put on wouldn't generally be something the community would welcome. I coukd be wrong but I can imagine far more complaints than people embracing it.

I do think the rewards are poor though. Probably the area of the game if be most critical of. I don't rank up for the rewards at all, I don't even think about them, they are so meh. It's also why unless I have a drive to, for the sake of it, I don't actively bother for legend. What is it? An extra epic or something? It's not a drive, for me at least, in the slightest. I think they could do with upping the rewards in some way, I don't see how they actually support people playing the game.

Maybe they are decent for pure free to play players but i find them so trivial and meagre. 

I find income here less and less to be honest. I like the layout of the site and it's a good place to get info and uodates because I'm not a social media user at all, mainly for the same reasons I visit here less. As time goes on, people are becoming more and more toxic and entitled. It's an incredibly negative atmosphere and it's only getting worse. Out of cards is significantly better, from a community stand point, but I'm not a huge fan of the layout.

The thing that disappoints me is people have such high bars for others and such low bars for themselves. No mistakes are acceptable, everything has to be met with anger and personal insults.

I'm not wanting to suppress expression what so ever but far more work can be done to close duplicate threads and threads that honestly belong in the salt thread. The salt thread seems to have a stigma to it and people get offended when you suggest posting there but it's there for a reason. Have a rant, swear, piss, moan, kick off, do it all, without judgement. Creating new threads just to say you don't like mage is unnecessary attention seeking and this site does seem to let that slide quite a bit. What happens though is these people are far more aggressive in their posting and it takes over the general mood of the site.

People also seem to have severe difficulty with a 2 way conversation, they don't want a conversation at all, they want an echo chamber of bitching to make them feel better for their own failings. Just locking duplicate threads and moving certain threads to the salt post would be a significant improvement and wouldn't infringe on people's ability to say their piece or have a moan. Before anyone says it, free speech is not a thing in this sense, free speech ensures you can speak out without reourcussion or punishment, usually from a government. This is often confused with "I can say what I like when I like and to whom I like". No, that's just not correct at all and isn't what free speech is to protect. 

I'm on 99 with the pass. I typically play very late and for a couple of hours. Usually have a smoke around 11 and then have something going on TV while I play hearthstone on my phone. Sometimes I play whilst I'm at work, particularly if it's a meeting heavy day or there are any long meetings. An hour and a half of rambling is made much easier by having a game to half concentrate on.

Does mean I'm very susceptible to messing up though. Got BM spammed all game the other day, in a game where the opponent thought a few times they had basically won the game so got a ton of 'thank you' and greetings as well as roping. So to be a douche back I had lethal but played all my remaining cards. I was playing duels and had the 'when you play a battle cry minion draw a card and reduce it by 3' passive. Of course the second minion I chuck down was an ooze and I had no cards left. Getting dragged into being a dick meant I drew myself into lethal. Very amusing though, I found it really quite funny for a good hour or so after. 

One of the things I like about HS is its simplicity. It feels very intuitive to play and its that design which dragged me in. I've always found other games I've tried to be quite tiresome, maybe more so because I tend to play on a phone. Magic's tiny font with paragraphs of text and overly serious looking cards just didn't juice my lemons. 

Appreciate your post though and I can't disagree with your thoughts, I just think HS leans in on being clean, simple and easy to pick up and go. I do quite like the lane idea, maybe it could be introduced with something as a mechanic, so it's not committed full time to keeping it but a future game mode or even cards released as part of a set which do these sorts of things to the board, even if it's a start of game effect? 

Quote from BravoTeam >>

Gonna need a citation for "they're here just for being girls", chief. 

 It's equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity and I'm not saying they've balanced the scales 50/50 outside of anything other than these are a list of popular and well known players, I don't follow the scene close enough or care enough to know about them individually. 

But I will say that the change up from the previous line up is either because they accept that they specifically picked male participants because of a bias against female participants or they are actively trying to get less known streamers out there. If it's the latter then that's totally fine but you're always going to them have the male streamers who are struggling who will feel like they aren't getting an opportunity simply because they are men. If its the former then you're openly admitting to bigotry. If its neither then it's likely that they are pandering. 

Then you get the issue of colour representation and you can keep playing this game, there aren't enough people of colour. Sure, you've got women in there now but why arent there an equal amount of Asian and other minorities? So on and so on.

This isn't a hearthstone issue, it's a much wider social issue so it's going to cause some friction somewhere. The problem with achieving equality of outcome is you are most likely going to discriminate against someone else in order to do it. It's an impossible game and one I'm glad I don't have to navigate on this sort of scale. You don't do anything, people are angry, you do something and different people are angry. It's fine for someone like Regis to step aside because he's very well set in terms of streaming and income but whoever you replace him with will be at the expense of someone else.

I don't think it's controversial to say they are specifically trying to up their female representation, that seems fairly clear to me. But it doesn't make all the problems go away because you then have people excluded for things outside of their control as well and seeing as there are more deserving streamers than spots, someone is probably going to feel aggrieved.

I'm a big fan of equal opportunity, not so much equality of outcome. If a person has done the right things to get an opportunity, they shouldn't be excluded because they are white or male or whatever. At the same time, you do need to foster an environment that allows all people a chance. If women aren't able to get to that position as easily then I understand the need to balance it out in some way. It's just difficult to do. The other difficulty is that having this conversation is really hard without each side shouting at each other. If everyone could hear out the concerns and talk it through, it may get more people on board but that means not dismissing anyone who doesn't necessarily agree, provided they are being respectful and aren't trolling or being abusive etc.

For the record I am NOT saying that these women don't deserve to be there. I'm simply saying that I understand why some people could have the perspective that it is representation for the sake of representation, given the goings on at the last event and that female representation is suddenly 50/50 from 80/20, I get why people can see it like they are being put there for political reasons rather than pure merit.

I personally feel chasing equality of outcome is a no win game and as I said, could easily see people accusing the line up of not having x or y represented enough. It can't realistically be achieved without discrimination of some sort and a struggling male streamer is mo less deserving of a spot simply because he's male, just as a female streamer shouldn't be excluded simply for being female either.

I've recruited in the past and ended up with 8 out of 10 jobs being offered to men. It had nothing to do with the fact that they were men. I've had other recruitment drives where more women were offered jobs. If you go with the most competent people, you likely aren't going to get equal representation across gender and race. So when it is completely equal, it's always easy to assume it's for political reasons. 

I'm not fussed about card backs in the slightest but was intrigued by the idea of this challenge. Having seen the solution to the first one, I'm just not going to bother. I don't see the point in watching a video and copying the steps, it's like using an infinite ammo cheat to me and looking at the solution, it seems like it's obnoxiously finicky for the sake of being a 'hard challenge'.

Glad for people who have enjoyed it, just not my bag at all and seems like you aren't going to crack it through simply problem solving. I don't even know how the first solution was discovered without some sort of software or something, that to me isn't a fun 'challenge'. 

Secrets are supposed to be tricky to play around and they are supposed to scupper your move. That's their entire purpose. 

We have next to no ways to interact outside of our own turn and secrets create the need for decision making.

I personally don't have an issue with paladin secrets. More often than not, I play around them and successfuly navigating them is really quite rewarding. Sure, every now and then I have no 'burner' spell to trigger OMY and I have to take a chance which then backfires or they get the nuts and snowball but that's the point of the deck. My deck also hits the nuts at times and rolls people over.

I get that they can be incredibly annoying but complaining about that seems a little bit like complaining that water is wet. They are supposed to be disruptive and so by definition, will be annoying.

Clear confirmation bias in your post regarding ring toss, as a long time and fairly heavy mage player, I can absolutely say ring toss doesn't always give you what you need. Sometimes it out right bad and I've just wasted a chunk of mana and tempo

I've seen a number of classes do this. The synergies are all spot on and it combines with the hero power and/or the treasures and it just completely blows me out of the water. I also see plenty of the opposite, I crush someone who has clearly had awful picks and it's a mess of a deck.

It's why I like duels. I don't play it a ton but I go back to it now and then, because crazy stuff that could never be on ladder can happen. Ridiculous decks and combos. It's fine with me for truly broken shit to happen there, when it's your turn (like the op), it feels bloody marvelous and you remember the deck, because chances are you won't ever get the same one.