• 4

    posted a message on Honestly I don't understand why people play this game anymore.
    Quote from happyday >>

    I do understand that everyone can enjoy the game as they want. The question that I asked is how can someone enjoy the game while only playing 1 single deck for the past couple of years with no huge changes? How dumb can you be not to understand this? How much more do I have to write for people to stop twisting my words? Insulting, demeaning, patronizing how much up your own ass can you be.

    I made this thread to hear why people play the exact same deck and why they enjoy that style, yet I only heard a couple of people actually answer like that and to them I am really thankful. But most of the retards became defendant of the whole netdecking idea and started saying that home brewers are arrogant and dumb.

     No, you're now being dishonest and back tracking slightly because you've been called out on your bullshit. Your op cried repeatedly about netdecking without the caveat that it was the only deck a person played. 

    " However, as more and more websites relating to HS sprouted and netdecking became more relevant, the huge aspect of experimenting and figuring stuff out on your own is completely dead"

    "Can someone please answer me - "Is it fun to just copy decks from a website?", "Is it fun not to put any thought in the cards that are in *your* deck?"

    You then do ask the question but have changed it in your post above to 'years', in your op you reference people playing a single deck for a year. I no nobody who does this, seems a dishonest question which you've asked to try and ram home your point. How many people do what you're saying? Every single person I've seen, played with, watched on stream etc plays more than one deck in a year. 

    Your main complaint is people not creating and experimenting with their own decks. You repeatedly cry about netdecking without referencing the 'one deck for one year' thing - I doubt many, if any people actually do that, it's just a strawman thrown in to try and add weight to your point.

    Look, don't go on about 'dumb' you clearly aren't very bright and as I've said, evidently lack the emotional intelligence to consider other perspectives. Your op is aggressive and whiny. You probably could have had a constructive discussion but the wording of your op suggests that's not what you wanted. You wanted to rant and whine. 

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Honestly I don't understand why people play this game anymore.
    Quote from happyday >>

    Okay, honestly I find it really surprising how many people are just throwing insults and other such stuff here.

    Only shows how great the game and the community is now if anything.

    And for those who actually answered and described their thoughts without insulting, trash talking or saying "GET GUD". Thank you.

    Now, there are some who clearly either didn't read everything or just didn't care to think about what I wrote. So I'll reinterpret what I have written before.

    For more than years you've been going to the same exact food joint. Ordering the exact same food. Rarely changing the drink or the sides to go along with it. Maybe once in a blue moon you try something different. But it takes longer to be served, costs a little bit more or you have to eat it in a specific way, which is harder. And ultimately because of those reasons you continue to eat the same dish. Now the conclusion. How is eating the exact same food healthy and not sickening?  

    Now you get invited to someones home and they make their own dish and serve it to you. And you say it's garbage and that they are a terrible cook. While bragging about having way better food and saying to take culinary classes to the other person. While not knowing how to even crack an egg for an omelett (to drastic of a comparison, but considering what other people compared in this thread it will suffice). What would you call such a person?

    And for those of you who said that deck building is a small part of the tcg... Are cooking skills a small part of life also?

    Basically, there are people who don't know how to cook but want to enjoy quality food. While at the same time there are people that want to make their own dishes as good as possible. The problem is that a lot of the time the people that only want quality food have a higher opinion about themselves and are just claiming to be better *cooks* because they eat better food. And sure there are such people on the opposite side. However, in this thread the majority of negativity came from the *quality* people. The funniest part is that they think that the deck builders are the snobby and rude ones, when actually it's the opposite. And I invite you to reread the thread to make sure. The only time that I made any sort of insult is when I called people who play tier 1 decks in casual clowns. 

    That's basically what I've read in this thread. 

     You've missed the point entirely. You're broadly applying your subjective opinion on what's makes something fun or what constitutes 'fun' and applying it to other people. 

    Your OP was pretty aggressive and judgemental, as well as patronising with your underlining of specific sentences, as if people would have a hard time understanding that they were important to your point.

    Re-read it back and consider it from the perspective of the people you're aiming at it. You acted like a bit I'd a dick and so you got responded to in kind.

    People are sick of the people who try to belittle 'net decking', you aren't the first butt hurt 'home brewer' to make some laughable claim of playing the game 'the right way' - the games developers disagree with you on that by the way. This is the only card game I've properly played and this incessant whinging from a minority of people about 'net decking' is bizarre to me. Pretty much anything and everything that has tactics or synergies or builds or decks in it, is going to have a community of people sharing the best/most effective. Game guides and walkthroughs have existed for decades. Not everyone wants to spend hours doing a part of the game they find unenjoyable. 

    You like to play the game a specific way and that's totally fine but it isn't *the* way to play it and it isn't superior or inferior, it's just how you choose to play it. People typically don't like being dictated to, so when you do that, you're going to get a prickly reaction.

    You still don't seem to be grasping why people disagree with you. Your food analogy is poor for so many reasons. You appear to lack the emoitional intelligence to consider other perspectives, I'd encourage you to 'steelman' any views you disagree with. Just spend 5 minutes and think of the best possible reasons for that point of view.

    And yes, the deck building in the sense you're talking about is just a small part. It's completely optional in fact, hence why deck codes are in the game.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Honestly I don't understand why people play this game anymore.
    Quote from BravoTeam >>
    Quote from JoeByeDon >>

    Moral of the story is: The “I need to win games of Hearthstone by any means necessary” crowd, will never agree with or understand the “I play the game for fun & nothing more” crowd. It’s like this in every game. There are people who play the game for entertainment, people who treat it like they’re qualifying for the Olympics, & the rest are somewhere in between & probably never post on these forums. 

    Most of these discussions all seem to follow the same path of people simply sharing their opinions, followed by unnecessary personal attacks by anyone who doesn’t agree. So, in other words, there’s no real discussion to be had here. Everyone will feel how they feel & no amount of abusive ad hominems is going to change that.

     The thing I wish people would understand is this: the "I want to win games by any means necessary" people aren't some sort of emotionless robot. There's people for whom trying to maximize winrate at all costs is the fun of the game. They're not sat there grinding Face Hunter for four hours a day for an entire season and miserable about it. The same way tinkerers enjoy trying to find a way to OTK their opponent with Oil Rig Ambushers or whatever and find the idea of playing Face Hunter boring, power players enjoy playing the best deck and squeezing every single percentage point and find spending time perfecting Oil Rig Ambusher OTK Rogue boring. People aren't sacrificing their own fun to try to win - these are people just like you trying to have as much fun playing a videogame as they can, they're not weird robots who are willingly avoiding fun in their free time to make the ladder a worse place for you. I find this perception of "there's people who want to have fun, and then there's people who want to win" really bizarre and also really annoying. It's like somehow the way of playing the game that the game's structure actively disincentivizes - playing with sub-optimal decks when the game pushes you to maximize your winrate - is seen as the "correct" way by a lot of people. It's not, and neither is trying to win at all costs. Let people play the way they want, and don't expect people to change the way they play just so you can play the way you want.

     I agree and the reason I find it annoying is because it just shows such a lack of actual consideration of what it is they are talking about. They've not considered it at all and it's an attitude of 'if it's not done my way then its bad' which is an attitude I can't tolerate, it's ignorant and that ignorance probably then manifests in other forms with that same person and they don't realise that either, because they are so self centered. I can't respect that type of thinking, it's a level of emotional intelligence I expect from primary school kids. 

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Honestly I don't understand why people play this game anymore.
    Quote from JoeByeDon >>

    Moral of the story is: The “I need to win games of Hearthstone by any means necessary” crowd, will never agree with or understand the “I play the game for fun & nothing more” crowd. It’s like this in every game. There are people who play the game for entertainment, people who treat it like they’re qualifying for the Olympics, & the rest are somewhere in between & probably never post on these forums. 

    Most of these discussions all seem to follow the same path of people simply sharing their opinions, followed by unnecessary personal attacks by anyone who doesn’t agree. So, in other words, there’s no real discussion to be had here. Everyone will feel how they feel & no amount of abusive ad hominems is going to change that.

     What the latter crowd don't seem to get though is that the former crowd are having fun. There aren't two camps of people, those who have fun and those who don't, people find fun in different ways. 

    I enjoy hearthstone for the mechanics and the thinking of the gameplay. I have fun with a variety of decks with a variety of win rates.

    What the OP is suggesting is that you can't be having fun unless you're making your own deck and only if that deck is different.

    If someone builds their own deck from scratch, for fun, and they enjoy it and that deck turns out to be 29 cards the same as a tier 1 deck, should that person stop playing it? Not everybody finds deck building enjoyable, that's what the 'homebrew' crowd don't seem to understand at all. They enjoy it, fine. Loads and loads of people don't though. They find making a bad deck and spending hours trying to tweak it into a good deck unenjoyable.

    So when you say 'some people are playing for fun' it's actually MOST people are playing for fun. Sure some people will be basically acting like a bot, just to grind something out and would actively say they aren't having fun but a majority of players climbing ladder are trying to do so effectively, whilst having fun. The anti deck sharing crowd can't seem to grasp that though. Deck building is clearly a bit of a niche hobby, so when they try to take some weird sort of moral high ground and announce that others are 'not playing the game properly' or whatever, it just sounds ridiculous.

    Crease a sub reddit or mini community on here that people cna join and that has specific rules such as card or class bans, homebrew rules etc and that community can grow and play against each other, make friends with like minded people etc and have constant whacky 'fun' games. There's absolutely nothing stopping that but I don't think I've ever seen it even attempted? 

    That's a far better way of playing the game for fun than trying to enforce that way of playing on the game's main competitive mode. But I suspect those people don't want to do that, because they are bothered about winning. They want to have their cake and eat it. 

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on counter cards for meta decks?
    Quote from Amaranthus >>

    I think Ogremancer is the king of the "meta counter" cards right now. He's one of the few cards I'm afraid of playing Token Druid (besides Counterspell and Oh My Yogg!) and I guess he's also quite frightening for Spell Mage and some of the other decks as well. It is a spell-heavy meta after all, so probably everything that counters spells is good.

     This is a great shout and it's a really good design in that it's tough to play around but not unfair and isn't completely useless against a non spell specific deck, something which utilises spells but isn't just centered around them. 

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 18

    posted a message on Honestly I don't understand why people play this game anymore.

    As long as you think making decks that don't happen to have been made by many others is 'the' way to play, you're just going to continue winding yourself up.

    The problem you seem to have is that you don't seem to grasp that the way YOU enjoy the game is kot the same way that others enjoy it. So if you don't have the emotional intelligence to consider why other people don't enjoy making decks with the purpose of them being unique, you're again going to continue to wind yourself up.

    The game designers themselves include a feature that allows you to import deck codes. So by design they want people to share and use decks or at the very least, enable it. If they simply enable it then it leads me to suspect that its because the majority of people want that feature. Which puts you in the minority.

    If you have tons of time to sit and tweak decks Iver the course of hours, sound. Not everyone does, I don't enjoy deck building, it's not a part of the game I find interesting or fun. I also have things like a family, friends, social and work commitments, I don't have hours to pour over whether one card needs changing out or not.

    You're incorrectly conflating deck building and playing the game. I see an expansion reveal and I know the types of decks and cards I want to try out. I could spend a week messing about, getting annoyed because I'm not a very good deck builder, before I naturally change my deck to something more effective or I can see the ideas that much better deck builders have and I get to use the cards I want to play with.

    You need to accept that your way is not 'the' way. Clearly the majority of players and the developers themselves don't agree with you.

    I'll tell you what would happen if you remove the ability to share and import decks.....

    First, you lose a bunch of players. There are tons of reasons people don't play the way you do, they may be free to play and just can't afford to tweak and trial, they may kot enjoy it etc etc etc. So remove this feature and you likely lose a chunk of players. Then those left will naturally end up where we are now anyway. When I started playing the game, I had absolutely no clue what I was doing. I got wrecked by a DK warlock deck. Right I thought, I'll make that! So I scrambled together what I could and make a control lock deck. I played a while, encountered plenty of mirrors and their decks were simply superior. Ahhhh, I thought, I shouldn't have THAT card, that last person had a different one and that makes a ton of sense. I'm the end, I ended up with basically a netdecked control lock. I had no idea what 'netdecking' was (cringe term btw), I had just started playing the game and was adapting to getting rolled over by more refined decks. Then as I played more and more I looked hearthstone up online, found forums and sites etc and came to realise there were tons of deck ideas out there that I could try. Far better way to play the game, from my perspective.

    Stop treating the way you choose to play ad the only acceptable way. You're creating this rule yourself and then getting frustrated that others don't follow it, which is ridiculous.

    'homebrew' is just code for 'shit deck' or 'less than optimal deck' but little nerds love using it to try and claim some sort of weird highground. Not everyone can live in a card game man, some of us have shit to do.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on Great pack to start the week off with!

    Nice one. Are you going to dust it and get the legendary you want, or hang on to it and keep trying with packs? 

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Meta untouched after last patch
    Quote from Kurgo >>
    Quote from IDProG123 >>

    Blizzard clearly didn't playtest their balance changes.

    They didn't play the game, either.

    They literally said that they liked this meta, even though this meta is one of the most hated meta in the history of Hearthstone.

     Good gracious lad, are you ok? lol

    I'm fairly certain they do playtest (how much or how well is another matter entirely, and none of us has any knowledge on that anyway) and if you visit twitter you'll see members of the team talking about the games they play (Cora definitely and iksar who has been playing a ton of games in wild the past month or so).

    I must have missed when they literally said "we like the meta" but to call this meta the most hated in the history of hearthstone...either you started playing in April or you have the memory of a goldfish mate. I'm in charge? Jade? Shotgun priest? Claws that catch? None will survive? 

    I will also kindly remind you that extraordinary claims must be backed up by extraordinary evidence. So if you want to claim that team 5 doesn't playtest changes and team members don't play the game, you kind of need to bring something that backs that up if you want to be taken seriously. Not that I think you wanted to be taken seriously to begin with, but there you go.

     They are too stupid to back up claims. These sorts of people like their little online echo Chambers which are filled with people who are similarly ignorant and lack any sort of critical thinking. They are used to just asserting things which engage an emotional response and these tend to be the least considered and rational types of responses but they feel good/natural. So it's just a cycle or stupid people making stupid claims and because they are now so used to people agreeing with them, they get really aggressive and upset if someone points out the flaws in their logic. I see it a lot with theists, flat earthers, general conspiracy theorists. In person these people are really easy to untangle, online though they can cherry pick who they engage with and there's just no getting through to them. 

    I'm genuinely fascinated to see how these people operate in day to day life, what job they have etc.

    Also, hyperbole is way, way too common these days. All too often people go way over the top in what they are saying that even if I agree with the root of what they are saying, I have to call bullshit on the bells and whistles that go along with it. They can't comprehend that so immediately straw man you and say you're taking a position you aren't, such as being a 'fanboy'. It's such a ridiculous thing to say, that a dev team don't bother play testing, I can't believe they actually mean what they are saying, they are just too intellectually challenged to make an actual point, so resort to throwaway insults instead. These people are not only not very bright but they are actively dishonest as well. There's just very little, if any at all, way to reason with them. 

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Meta untouched after last patch
    Quote from yepapapepeap >>
    Quote from Wazabi >>

    Another topic about the same thing.. wow

     ofc there is another topic when their fix is a total failure, I just cannot fanthom why people like you even post? like what is the point? to show that you got nothing going on or any cares for anything? lol gtfo

     

     Pot calling the kettle black.... 

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on How is this balanced???
    Quote from IDProG123 >>

    Ah yes, Druid, a class where either you destroy your opponent with seven 8/8 Carnival Clowns on Turn 7 and seven 6/4 minions on Turn 5 or get destroyed by aggro or board clears.

    And all this is simply because Blizzard still tries to stick to a terrible design choice that is class identity. Class identity is horrible because it reduces diversity so badly. This is not an RPG game like WoW, let the classes have all things needed to be diverse like board clears, group buffs, single buffs, removals, small minions, medium minions, big minions, and more. Don't limit them.

     

     I like the idea of identity and different classes playing differently. This is the problem the devs have, you get people who sit on the opposite ends of things and I expect that sometimes, they have just go with making the game they want to make it. There's only so much pandering you can do. 

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Make generated cards known to both players
    Quote from UltraJeeves >>
    Quote from P4dge >>

     How is this still going? Its an awful idea and won't be implemented, for good reason. You aren't supposed to be able to know what's coming so you can play around it, that's stupid. Good players already do this I wish I could do it to their extent but I can't because I don't care enough to really learn everything. I don't know half the cards by name even. If I wanted to, I could learn it and get better at anticipating and second guessing what they've taken from a discover. Playing around something isn't because you know it's there, it's anticipating that it may be and thus, making plays around that possibility. Sometimes this is easier than others, such as reading your opponents deck and knowing they are going to have X card and they will likely use it on X turn, so you play with that in mind. 

    They could potentially tone down the amount of discover, although I personally really like it but this is a terrible, terrible idea. You aren't thinking it will be good for the game, you're thinking it will be good for YOU.

    Do any other card games do this outside of niche effects and situations such as physical games and showing you haven't cheated?

    Heck, poker would be way better for me and a ton fairer from my perspective if I got to see everyone's starting hand or at least the additional cards. It's not fair that they always seem to have exactly the right hand to beat me or I fold and find out my hand would have won! NOT FAIR! Change the rules to benefit me please! This isn't a direct analogy, just tongue in cheek. 

    There was an instructive quote in yesterday's Hearthstone Top Decks article which addressed the relationship between random generation and skill:

    "As randomness in the game increases, the skill cap becomes lower. It becomes impossible to play around all the random outcomes, and the edge you can gain in the game becomes smaller."

    https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/is-random-rng-resource-generation-in-hearthstone-too-strong/

    I didn't see many posters who were interested in the idea say it was because it would make things better for them personally. Some people like the idea, some don't. Nothing wrong with having a discussion.

     

     Yeah that's fair, discuss away. It really isn't up to me what others can or can't discuss so I shouldn't have really gone there. 

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 2

    posted a message on Make generated cards known to both players

     How is this still going? Its an awful idea and won't be implemented, for good reason. You aren't supposed to be able to know what's coming so you can play around it, that's stupid. Good players already do this I wish I could do it to their extent but I can't because I don't care enough to really learn everything. I don't know half the cards by name even. If I wanted to, I could learn it and get better at anticipating and second guessing what they've taken from a discover. Playing around something isn't because you know it's there, it's anticipating that it may be and thus, making plays around that possibility. Sometimes this is easier than others, such as reading your opponents deck and knowing they are going to have X card and they will likely use it on X turn, so you play with that in mind. 

    They could potentially tone down the amount of discover, although I personally really like it but this is a terrible, terrible idea. You aren't thinking it will be good for the game, you're thinking it will be good for YOU.

    Do any other card games do this outside of niche effects and situations such as physical games and showing you haven't cheated?

    Heck, poker would be way better for me and a ton fairer from my perspective if I got to see everyone's starting hand or at least the additional cards. It's not fair that they always seem to have exactly the right hand to beat me or I fold and find out my hand would have won! NOT FAIR! Change the rules to benefit me please! This isn't a direct analogy, just tongue in cheek. 

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 0

    posted a message on Dissatisfied with the nerfs...
    Quote from Neko_Tamo >>
    Quote from FortyDust >>
    Quote from thebitterfig >>

    I posit the key lesson: it's often ineffective to use targeted nerfs to fix widespread and determined power creep.

     I counterpose that that was never the intent, nor it is a desirable, achievable or realistic goal.

     Why would you be pro-powercreep? At the very least it long-term devalues your collection since the newest cards will be more powerful and hence more desirable. Only the newest players benefit from it and only while they are new. And ofc Blizzard which through this inflation of cards forces you to buy more new packs to stay ahead. And if I wanted to list the bad sides of powercreep I could write pages. Really makes no sense to me. 

     There's always going to be 'power creep', otherwise we'd just be stuck with slightly different versions of chill wind yeti, maybe a stat or two switch from attack to health or whatever and a different art style. 

    The game has to move on, evolve and progress. What was fun 5 years ago isn't fun anymore if that's all you've put out and you can't release hundreds of cards a year and just tweak the stat lines. You need to keep existing players interested and this means raising the power level over time.

    I don't think I've played a game that is updated regularly that doesn't do this. New classes, moves and skill trees that get added are generally more powerful.

    They tend to knock it down a touch on rotation but it's reasonable to me that throughout the 2 years of a rotation that the power of cards increases. I'd personally find it boring otherwise. I suspect others would too after years of the same sort of cards.

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 1

    posted a message on Make generated cards known to both players

    I don't think it's necessary. When I see really good players play they quite often narrow down the best options from the discover and play around that. This is why they are better players than me I can't do that, I don't know the cars pools well enough and that's part of the skill, understanding and knowing the game.

    I also don't predict opponent's moves as well. I can do it to a degree but not as well or as consistency as the top players. They have a deeper understanding of the game than me and that shoukd benefit them.

    All this does is reduce the skill gap really and I don't see a need for that. The worse a player is the more they seem to blame rng and claim things are completely out if their control. They aren't completely out of our control though. You shouldn't know what cards your opponents have, this pretty much just dumb the game down.

    It would benefit me personally quite a lot but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. 

    Posted in: General Discussion
  • 3

    posted a message on Advanced Duels Guide - With Example Decks And Treasure Tier Lists!
    Quote from RaptorWithWings >>

    If that’s the case, then I’m here to support that 0.01%

     There are people who appreciate it, this is a fantastic article and completely something I have been looking for. I'm not a huge duels player traditionally and not really knowing the treasures and general 'meta' makes it quite hard to get into. I've been playing a fair amount over the last couple of weeks and this is a great read, I'll be returning to it often! 

    Posted in: News
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