Hearthpwn

I actually agree with the majority of the nerfs, my only complaint/gripe is with equality. 

By removing equality from Pali's, you remove one of the FEW aoe removal tools at their own disposal. All the spell caster classes (mage/priest/warlock) have way more aoe removal options than Paladin ever had. They could even pull off said aoe's easier, all with single cards. With Paladin you needed two cards minimum to pull off the classes board removal. Either Pyro/equality or Consecration/equality. Not exactly broken when both cards are required to be in hand and for the latter pairing needing 6 mana to pull off, on par with Mage's AOE. 

Arguments can be made that the Pyro/equality pairing can be the most devastating for board reliant builds, but technically that can be said for any deck that uses Pyro + spells for board removal. In my eyes then, the problem isn't equality. It's Wild Pyromancer. I think moving him to the HOF instead of hitting a core class card like equality would probably have sufficed better. Not only would that move in of itself curbed equality's power anyways, but remove a card that can gain value just about in any deck that runs a decent amount of spells, 

But no. Instead we get another stupid nerf like Hex was in its batch of nerfs. Equality was part of what made control/combo style paladin decks viable, and instead of hitting a card like Pyro that causes more problems than equality anyways, they decide to hit the one card that absolutely no one complained about anyways. 

I hope for Blizz's sake that eventually they unnerf cards in the near future with future set releases/rotations/other nerfs, because otherwise sooner or later their entire core set will be ruined by the nerf hammer and all of their class set identities will be trashed. 

Watch out guys, Fireball and Frostbolt nerfs incoming for mage /sarcasm. (any other nerfs no one asked for blizz?). 

Hey does anyone know if these bundles can be bought more than once or is this a one time deal like the beginner's bundle? 

Quote from DoubleSummon >>

^ Lich king, nerfed? not even close.. that card is strong but never really broken.

 I know. I'm glad they didn't nerf him. As I said though, the "logic" that he's strong enough to be put in any deck and get strong value out of him (which he is), has been used as the excuse necessary to axe other cards in the past, be it a nerf or rotation to wild (Rag being the obvious example). I'm relieved he wasn't touched because he's one of my favorite cards from that set.  

I mean, no offense meant towards the OP buuuut if we're gonna petition new classes to be added in I'd rather we get the Pandas/Monks first. After Frozen Throne I'm good on death knight cards for a while. Lich King was awesome and I'm glad he wasn't nerfed because he was literally used in any deck and got decent value, and that argument has been used to murder more than one card in the past.

But yeah you'd basically have to add in more than 1 new class to the game to keep it balanced but no, I don't think death knight should be one of them.

I mean, no offense guys but we all saw this coming when we saw Zulgin announced and then the nerfs. I don't understand why this is a surprise to anyone.

As far as class dominance goes I'm very much ok with Hunter taking the lime light for a while, especially after so long with dealing with Druids. Also don't forget, this recent hunter dominance will most likely only last until spring when the new rotation hits and we lose 3/4 of the standard card pool. Then it's up for grabs on who gets top spot and who everyone bitches and moans about next.

Besides, as far as oppressive level goes hunter is no were near as strong as druid was at the height of their game. At least you can play around secrets and 3/3's...lest we forget druids just outright kills you sometimes simply by gaining armor better than the warrior class who specializes in armor, and stall you out into fatigue or otk you.

Given the choice between current hunter meta and the last FEW druid metas I'll take hunter every time. Don't forget, you can tech/play around secrets. Druid stalling, not so much.

Hey there. Not sure if this is the forum to post this, but here goes. Fairly experienced player since the latter days of the blackrock mountain metas. I dunno if anyone's interested in adding players to their friends list, but I am. My hash-tag is #11740.

I've been known to play mostly meme/homebrew decks and log in quite often and I'm from the east coast of the U.S. If anyone wants to play/quest/test decks I'm usually open to do so while I'm online.

Here's to hoping! See everyone in the Tavern.

Dude people whined until they murdered Giggling Inventor, and she was only broken in Quest rogue. Otherwise she was just a strong anti agro tool. But people whined and they killed her.

You think Rag would be able to not suffer a similar fate? Honestly I actually agree with you but the whiner is strong with this game...There'd be screaming bloody murder until rag costs 10 mana  and got his effect erased completely. I love Rag as a card, played him since I started playing shortly after Blackrock. But the player base just won't have it.

The new dragonhawk legendary was probably the best compromise they could come up with to bring Rag back but keep whining down to a minimum. Mostly because it is such a huge risk-reward factor: I mean, you're basically building your entire deck around this new legendary at this point. It's much tougher to pull off hence why people wouldn't mind the reward for meme players who want to try a mage hero power deck basically. But to bring back Rag straight up? Not gonna happen. Not when the modern player base cries murder at sludge belcher power level of cards like Giggling Inventor because she was broken in ONE deck (a problem more easily fixed by nerfing Sonya or any other of that deck's cards instead of the neutral, btw.).

No, giggling is not broken. It's great value, but hardly problematic. Aggro players will undoubtedly cry about it but all in all id say it's a fair vaule card for the cost.

If anything some of the class decks it fits into needs some cards nerfed. Druid especially, it's a god class tier right now, especially with token druid currently running amok. I'd say if a new batch of nerfs are due start hitting the druid class first before you go into neutrals that\ss cycle out eventually. 

As stated above the only deck that truly makes giggling broken is quest rogue but that's ONE deck. Druid has a shit ton of broken decks in itself. I'd say druid is were Blizzard's priority should hit first. 

When can we buy the virtual ticket has that been announced yet?

Boomsday has been one of my favorite recent expansions, mainly because it resurrected mechs. I loved that theme from GVG and was saddened when all serious thought into expanding on them ended there essentially. Until this set. I love experimenting with this set, especially in wild. 

 Witchwood was an awesome expansion in its own right, my only problem was the boost aggro styles of play got with Baku. But that's only a personal thing because I detest aggro style of game play.

One thing Blizzard does need to focus on and I agree with is the weakening of the druid class as a whole. This expansion did a great job of that as it didn't give druid that many op cards in itself, but the problem is druid ALREADY has a crap ton of good stuff from previous expansions so it didn't matter. Thankfully most of druid's op cards come from sets that rotate out eventually, and once that happens (all sets pre-witchwood cycling, that is) it'll be a different ball game for druid depending on what gets released for it in future expansions. 

I love that they finally cemented legendary spells as a thing. I know technically that quests are considered spells but honestly I think that was a mistake a shouldn't count as they're quests. Quests and spells should be two different things and I hope Blizzard pops out a new legendary spell every now and again for sets like they are with hero cards (speaking of which, I'm praying with all my soul that's now a permanent thing. Make the main character that each expansion is centered around a playable hero card. That's so awesome an idea and can give previously weakened classes a nice little boost).  Even if it's only one new legendary spell per set like with hero cards I'd be a happy gamer. 

Quote from Jennifer >>

While it is true that the rogue quest is a turd in the punch bowl, and many have commented noteworthy contenders for the title of worst design in the game (kingsbane, shudderwock, jade idol, barnes, patches), it confounds me that nobody seems to have even mentioned the actual worst card design the game has ever seen...

Prince Keleseth

This royal pain in the ass singlehandedly negates any skill involved with the game, no matter what else is going on, just by costing 2. Nothing that stupid has ever been seen anywhere else in the game!

 Keleseth is ok because he's more balanced. By playing him you're sacrificing an entire mana slot for your deck. Very few classes can get away with not playing two drops. With most classes its a HUGE risk Vs. reward factor. Yes your deck gets auto improved, if you draw it, but you sacrifice a bunch of your early plays as a result. I'm thinking that's why most players are actually ok with this card, including myself. Want to play it in mage and somehow make it work? Kudos and best of luck to players who try.

The other cards mentioned are a different matter. Again, I still hope Giggling Inventor does not in fact get nerfed but I still see the arguments and valid points made for the case in doing so. The value from the card is nutso good, I use it as an anti agro tool most of the time myself.

I'm kind of shocked people are still complaining against Jade Idol though, its so outdated I laugh when my opponent busts it out in my wild matches against druid. This is just my personal experience against the card mind you but thus far I'd have to say my win rate against it since it's outdated rotation is around 75-80%.

Barnes is only good in the big priest style of decks, so I'm still really hoping they don't nerf him. Again just my own personal experience but I don't run across him all that much in wild really and half the time I do come across him on the rare occasion he misfires. Granted I still lose when he does hit his mark but that happens so little I'm not fussed about it. I love to use him in my own meme or home brew decks though.

Honestly, It's been a while since this has happened for me. But I'm glad it has. This is a rare meta when I personally haven't needed to complain about a card being nerfed. I love the new set and all the cards it offers, and the meta is so much fuller of variety than it has in a while. It's a nice change.

Caverns has already been nerfed twice, I highly doubt you'll see a third. If anything Giggling might see a nerf because suddenly this little guy is having an azure drake type of effect on the meta. He's the kind of great 5 drop that can simply fit in any deck and get value. THOSE are the types of card blizzard grows weary of (see: RagnarosDrake/Sylvanas). Cards that are so great they don't have to do with any theme or strategy your decks trying to pull off, but they're so good it doesn't matter. Play them and they'll get value.

Once Blizzard realizes Giggling fits that category (remember, they have to wait for the numbers first) then they'll probably do something about him. Probably nerf in his mana cost though as anything else nerfed wouldn't make much sense and/or destroy the cards identity otherwise.

Viscious is only powerful in this deck really so they won't touch this critter. On it's one its just a little beast that sees little play else were at best,

Just my two cents but my point is don't expect Blizzard to nerf Caverns a third time, won't happen. I love the card so I'm hoping really hard it won't happen personally but Giggling is the more logical/realistic choice for the next batch of nerfs.

My problem with the rank system isn't winning or losing, its the kind of DECKS being used at such a high rank.

I'm a wild player by nature, so naturally my wild rank will usually be a lot lower because I play and win there more.

Lately I hadn't been playing a lot in standard because I was sick of facine against the same handful of decks all the time. But this month I decided to give it a shot again to see what was going on for the standard meta,

Since I hand't played standard for a few months I went back up to rank 25. What was the first deck I played against? Odd Rogue. That's right, one of the top decks of today's meta being used at rank 25. Now luckily, I have the full collection. I knew what I was playing against the minute Baku appeared (Though I nearly literally bashed my head against a wall as I asked myself how is this fair?) and I put up a good fight against it because of it.

Whether I won or lost doesn't matter. What matters is...why am I playing against odd rogue at a newbie level? Sure, having played since blackrock it doesn't exactly make me a newb any more, but what if I had been?

All match all I thought to myself was "Boy, good thing I already have the collection, I feel REEEEEALLY bad for new players if this is the kind of crap smacking them in the face so early in their careers."

Case in point, how ARE new players who have nothing but basic cards in their collections for rank 25 supposed to climb when their facing against tier 1 meta decks? Guys like me are fin in the long run because we have actual experience. If I was a new player NOW and coming up against that crap in my first rank of rank play, I'd be quitting this damn game. 

Frankly, Blizzard needs a match making systems were high rank players can't use tier 1 or 2 decks, set limits to what decks they can use. That way it's not just returning vets to a meta farming wins off of newbies. not only that but more "non meta" decks like mine can actually have a chance to thrive until we hit the lower ranks. Once you hit those single digit ranks that's about when it should be safe for Blizzard to allow players access to full collection deck builds for their players.

I mean, if we put it in pokemon terms...do we really need level 100 Mewtwo's stomping on level 2 metapods at rank 25? Because that's what it feels like vets do to new players. It's not fair or fun when access to cards is so thin for new players. 

I agree with the OP 100%. The problem isn't what you're saying, it's were you're saying it. 

Despite what people think, Blizzard employees - the true people that you should be complaining to, don't normally visit this particular board. And certainly not on a regular basis. 

What you need to do is find one of the other forums they do visit on a regular basis - I hear reddit is one of them - and complain there. Then at least your post might be read, Even if it's ignored at first, they know it's there. Then when enough voices start complaining in unison about the same topic, that's when they finally take action. 

That's how the community gets their desired card nerfs pushed through. 

It may take more voices that usual but eventually Blizzard WILL do something about this, it's just a matter of time and how much patience the players have in the meantime to suffer through this garbage. As much as I'm sure they want to ignore this issue forever they can't.  The O.P is far from the first player to voice this complaint and he sure won't be the last.  It's just gotta be taken to the right place to be heard (sadly, it's not here.).

Well, I'm grateful we got Witchwood, don't get me wrong. But after showing us a glimpse of what was planned before they decided on whichwood, Murder on the Gilneas Express, I wish we got THAT set first. I love those type of themed stories especially in gaming. Nothing like a good murder mystery.

That said, I can hope we get that expansion sometime down the line. We may not get Gilneas Express this year, but anything's a possibility for next year.

As for next expansion, I'm still saying Pirates are do for an expansion. Brotherhood of Booty Bay was tossed around as an idea a while back and I wouldn't mind if this was a thing. I love pirates as a theme as well, just for Pete's sake, don't make them aggro. Don't think that's too much to ask for.