Hearthpwn

They ALWAYS powercreep new stuff and make them OP. They are incapable of releasing balanced stuff. And it's all about money and the target audience of this game.

Quote from AndreiLux >>

I think balanced meta is a meta where every type of deck has at least a couple of different viable decks, there is no deck with too big winrate and every class has at least one playable (tier 3 or better) deck. The problem is, it's harder and harder to achieve with endless power creep and bigger difference between high and low levels of play (so they need to balance several metas at once).

Quote from Anarchy1 >>

You don’t describe a balanced meta.You just describe what you like

-Claiming that an average game length of 10 to 12 turns per player is balanced or healthy: what about aggro decks? You want multiple viable archetypes but at the same time want aggro dead

He doesn't want aggro dead, he wants control to be OP. I mean, "the board-based decks should have an easier time reaching the set rank" clearly indicates that he wants an advantage over combo too. It's interesting how in such threads aggro, midrange and combo players typically say that everything should be viable and some control players just come to rant about how the game is unbalanced and skill is not required because games are not long enough, basically implying that the game is balanced and skillful only if it is dominated by control (or even fatigue in most severe cases).

 Control decks shouldn't be OP. I never said that. Keep your issues to yourself please.

If you want combo to be OP, sure. It's your opinion. Stop shitting on mine. Just because i don't like wasting time to play single player (i.e. watch opponent kill me in one turn without any way to answer it) doesn't mean i want any archetype to be OP.

Sure, aggro and midrange are board-based strategies and are ok to be viable. But when the game ends too quickly it means there's an inability to answer them by other strategies. Which leads to the stupid binary metas that we keep having - you know if you have a chance by turns 5-6. Is that fun for you?? Really?? Do you like conceding or wasting your time every 2 games (based on a 50% win rate which is purely theoretical anyway)?? If so, i wish you never design a game. I wish blizzard stopped designing games too lol.

How about playing a meaningful number of turns instead? Actually feeling like you played SOMETHING even if you end up losing. How about having multiple chances to turn the game around, no matter the archetype you use? This is what i'd like. If it's too hard to comprehend this for you, then stay in your bubble and have fun playing this fucked up game. "Balanced and fun" my ass. Yea, it's balanced and fun because you play the meta decks which give you fast and more certain wins. Trying anything else would make you miserable.

Enjoy your stupid game. Maybe you'll come to realize some things about it after a while.

HS is nothing special.

Every game can pass the test of time when:

- people are lured into it for different reasons and with different strategies

- they are encouraged to keep spending

- their stupid brains don't realize it's a trick to keep you invested so you never stop playing

- the target audience seems to be kids of at most 24 years of age. Yes, they are kids. Men grow up at around 26-28. A 24 year-old male is rarely a grown-up person with respect to life and choices (i.e. there are always exceptions but that's not the point).

- netdecking is amplifying all of the above

Smart moves from blizzard? Sure. Immoral much? Definitely. Does "immoral" make lots of money? Oh yea baby, let it flow. Should we do something about it? Definitely. Why don't we? Because we are too stupid or suffering from a god complex. What's that??? When the game's whales need to feel powerful or like they matter in this world, they spend their very-easily-earned money on this game. But isn't it their right? Of course, but it also shows how "smart" they are and why things never change in this world.

Meanwhile, the homeless guy you see every day on your way to the bank, to retrieve your 1million$ pocket money, has almost froze to death because he can't afford a ride to the nearest shelter.

PS: i'm waiting for the world to have matter replicators so we won't require money anymore, for almost anything. No one starves to death, no one lacks basic clothing etc. An economy without money and based on research and self fulfilment is the best humanity has to offer. Too bad it's gonna be an utopia for a good while due to greed and power. Technically we are not that far from it - quantum mechanics and computing is the first step.

Nice thread.

OP, i think it's all of your options. What i see as balanced:

- every class has at least 2 viable archetypes, with at least 1 deck from each.

- the same player (i.e. same skill) should be able to reach the same rank (e.g. diamond 5) in the same amount of time played or games, + or - a deviation of at most 10%. Maybe 15% for some fringe decks.

- games should very rarely last less than 10-12 turns

- every spell should cost at least 1 mana, except those designed to cost 0.

- the board-based decks should have an easier time reaching the set rank (i.e. they should win more, within that standard deviation of 10-15%).

- losing should never feel bad. You should always have something to try, which provides enough satisfaction that you actually PLAYED a game, even if lost.

- swing turns should never be binary, except a few which each class should have access to and with great (and similar) costs. This means that most board clears should only allow you to regain tempo (even in future turns) instead of either making you win right there, or the opponent having OP cards that your board clear is useless anyway.

- this implies that the health of heroes should be (much) larger than 30. Or that each player can choose a card to play from his deck for free, at certain turns, or whatever. Basically allowing a swing turn to happen for the one behind, full knowing that the opponent can do it too afterwards.

- games are way way too binary, instead of actual battles which leave you gasping for air. This needs to change badly.

- the cards' cost should be more or less fixed, and computed automatically. E.g. taunt is valued at 0.5 mana, divine shield at 1 mana, etc. It's much easier to balance something knowing that every other card is in line with the cost. For uneven costs, either start using double of everything (mana cost and available mana crystals) so you always get an integer, or simply make the cost the low/high value depending on projected/tested impact of the card.

- stop making stupid filler cards every expansion. I'd rather have 30 cards with real impact (in standard, wild, arena) than 100 more useless cards. If you want filler for arena, then release separate sets for exactly this!

- start testing your cards before release, in real games. Make a limited access test realm for HS and invite certain players to play and give feedback.

- stop making this game targeted at teenagers. Have some dignity. People want to use their brain. You want to make it accessible? Sure. There's casual mode for you. Or wild. Or any other mode you can think of that would lower the IQ requirements, game duration, strategy, and amount of fun. But please, stop fucking up constructed. Not everyone has to play it! Or i don't know, make an "elite mode". Stop putting all people in the same boat. It's annoying as hell.

- remove or change the game modes that you don't give a shit about or barely do anything to balance them properly.

This is balanced for me. Also the reason i'm not gonna play HS again. Not for stupid hype stuff like the DK. At least i can admit that it's not overpowered and that they did a much better job than with DH. A small step in the right direction. Too bad the impact for arena was missed completely.

Would you have preferred that this stupid cash-grab of a class to be overpowered, like DH was? I guess people complain no matter what. Boy, i'm glad to not be playing this shit anymore, because of all these entitled pricks.

@OP: you idealistic man, you! That is THE WHOLE POINT! Pack prices are never going down, only up. Forces people to pay more to get the same amount of cards. And considering all the useless crap that's in every expansion, it's safe to say this is how they intended to milk people from the start.

Probably intended because the weapon wasn't yours.

^ couldn't have said it better Zizka. Best way is to stop playing the game, essentially.

They made this class specifically to fuck up the arena. I feel something else is coming soon in terms of monetization, regarding it.

DK is powerful because of board presence, and this is what wins arenas, together with some board clears or swing cards. It's very consistent as a class and they know it.

Glad i haven't returned to the game to face this shit in arenas.

Easy. Another game. Not HS.

Hearthstone has been the wrong meta for a while now

@seshua: you are partly wrong and here is why (yet in my heart i hope the real reason is what you said and not what i believe).

They didn't make control decks unviable because of social media outcries. It was purely for monetary reasons and market targeting.

Most of the younger generations don't like slower games. So how do you bring them into HS and make them spend their parents' money? By making most games end before turn 10. What has that gotten us? 9-10 mana cards that either end the game on their own or make any comeback impossible. The design's focus is clearly "turn 10 at most".

That's also why there will never be control decks anymore. Also why a lot of classes suddenly got tools to draw a lot (what good is a turn 10 game if you barely see half your deck and get frustrated for not drawing properly?!).

I'm sorry but blizzard doesn't give a shit about improving HS overall nor the balance of the cards. If social media outcries mattered we'd have a much cleaner UI, lots of "tools/modes/etc" to have fun with, paying for an expansion would give you all the cards to play with, coming back into the game wouldn't be atrocious, etc.

Right now, the only semblance of a card game is the arena. Until they are gonna destoy it too.

I've been playing Snap since its release and I love it. Compared to HS I got enough cards to make a few decks and so on. Basically i'm having loads of fun. Can't wait for an arena-like mode. I also love the fact that i get matched with people similar in value. This is awesome as i can focus on having fun and playing well instead of knowing that some games are lost from the start. The locations affect everything in random and fun ways, and it's up to us to adapt to them based on the cards in hand.

The only thing is that certain locations are overpowered when you realize how to abuse them, and the animations are way way way too slow and annoying.

If they fix the things that make the phone app a bad one, then it's gonna be fine. 

Wow that was awesome. Lol! I wonder if this kind of AFK games can still happen or not...

Why do people assume that OP is proud? Why do some take it as bragging?

It is bragging. Why else would you ask the question from the OP? What would anyone gain from it or its answer?! It's definitely a bragging troll. There's no discussion to be had here.

Congrats OP, you're a no-life teenager that spends his free time playing BGs. We'll talk in a few years. Hopefully you won't end up spending your money in casinos or on bets because of this BG addiction.

Also don't feel ashamed for spending less time in the game. After a certain age the time for gaming is low. But at least it's much healthier and sane that way. Benefits of growing up :)