I mean really, if they're going to be totally inept at balancing the classes (like giving mage/hunter all good cards), at least make it so everybody can play mage or hunter every run if they choose to do so.
Could care less if it's boring or stale, but it should at least be fair.
You know, the one thing I've learned from my personal challenge is there really aren't any sub-par classes. Yes, some are stronger at times than others, but every class is capable of deep arena runs in every meta... with a capable player. If you can't win with every class because you play them all the same way, that's not a class balance problem--that's a you problem.
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Old school WoW Mage motto: if you don't end the run with the most damage dealt AND the most deaths, you're not trying hard enough.
For God sake no. I don't want to play against the same class every single game just because some streamer told people it was the best, it's bad enough as it is. There is no 'advantage' or 'disadvantage', in the long run everyone gets offered every class equally.
In fact, I would go a step further and remove class selection altogether! Get everyone playing with every class, that would allow skill to differentiate itself far better.
Oh and The fact you think Mage and Hunter are by far the best classes indicates you're not nearly as smart as you think you are.
in this meta I played against hunters 14 times so far. I won 13 times. so yeah guys, just pick hunters. :)
I know its a small sample size, I only played 69 games so far in Ungoro, but it seems hunter was better in the previous meta or you are drafting the wrong way. :)
Letting everyone pick the class they want would be great in helping Blizzard (hopefully) better balance arena. If 70% of players were picking either Mage or Rogue for example, that would be a clear sign they needed to weaken them. Conversely, if 5% were picking Druid + Warrior then that would be a clear sign to boost the rates for some of their cards to be offered.
Hey, balancing issues in an RNG based game type, not that straight forward.
Part one, if you adjust the game to balance rng, you alter the entire face of wild and standard. Most likely breaking one or both of them.
Part two, the sample size necessary would be very large over several months. So my best estimation, 100k players and about 1000 games per player. Over at minimum 4 months. Due to availability of play time. I mean we do have lives.
Part three, the idea that seems to have the most merit would be to open full class selection to find the most popular choice, cross checked with the highest win ratio. With both of those pieces of data there would be a start to figuring out if an imbalance exists.
TL;DR So in conclusion, RNG will always give the feeling of imbalance, and if you want an arena rework, prepare for a long wait.
Letting everyone pick the class they want would be great in helping Blizzard (hopefully) better balance arena. If 70% of players were picking either Mage or Rogue for example, that would be a clear sign they needed to weaken them. Conversely, if 5% were picking Druid + Warrior then that would be a clear sign to boost the rates for some of their cards to be offered.
They can already perform this analysis based on how often people choose Rogue (for example) when Rogue is offered.
Blizzard knows very well which classes are the most popular and effective in Arena. It just takes them a long time to make adjustments (assuming they believe there is enough of an imbalance to warrant a change.)
I'm not sure a lot of people would welcome Team 5's tinkering with offering rates on a regular basis, however, given the Arena meta we saw just before the release of Un'Goro.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I'd actually want Arena to not offer you the same class you played in your last run actually. I think this can easily be managed. Of course it just means the top 2 classes will be played the most, but would still increase diversity somewhat than like the 25% mage pool I'm seeing right now.
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Regular NA Arena Leaderboard player. Reached #1 in NA arena leaderboard in May 2018 with a 9.07 average!
Letting everyone pick the class they want would be great in helping Blizzard (hopefully) better balance arena. If 70% of players were picking either Mage or Rogue for example, that would be a clear sign they needed to weaken them. Conversely, if 5% were picking Druid + Warrior then that would be a clear sign to boost the rates for some of their cards to be offered.
They can already perform this analysis based on how often people choose Rogue (for example) when Rogue is offered.
Blizzard knows very well which classes are the most popular and effective in Arena. It just takes them a long time to make adjustments (assuming they believe there is enough of an imbalance to warrant a change.)
I'm not sure a lot of people would welcome Team 5's tinkering with offering rates on a regular basis, however, given the Arena meta we saw just before the release of Un'Goro.
Data on how often Rogue is picked when offered gives an approximation but not the exact same data as what would be obtained from seeing how often Rogue is picked when all choices are offered.
For example, here is a simple thought experiment to show the difference. Say 100 people in the world play Hearthstone arena. 33 of these people will pick Rogue immediately if offered, the other 67 hate Rogue and would never pick it. In the current system, if Rogue was offered to all 33peoplewho like Rogue and 0 times to any of the others Rogue would appear to have a 100% pick rate. Conversely, if the 33 people who were offered Rogue were from the 67 Rogue hater group, Rogue would have a 0% pick rate. Both rates would be way off from reality whereas if all 100 people were given all 9 options it would yield the 33% rate.
Holy hell no. I'd much rather go the other way and have the class you are be fully randomized in the beginning. No choice at all. That way top arena players would actually have to be skilled across classes, and not at the highest win rates because they only play the top 2 or 3 classes 95% of the time.
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#1 NA, January 2018 Arena leaderboard. twitch.tv/sirosis_hs
Letting everyone pick the class they want would be great in helping Blizzard (hopefully) better balance arena. If 70% of players were picking either Mage or Rogue for example, that would be a clear sign they needed to weaken them. Conversely, if 5% were picking Druid + Warrior then that would be a clear sign to boost the rates for some of their cards to be offered.
They can already perform this analysis based on how often people choose Rogue (for example) when Rogue is offered.
Blizzard knows very well which classes are the most popular and effective in Arena. It just takes them a long time to make adjustments (assuming they believe there is enough of an imbalance to warrant a change.)
I'm not sure a lot of people would welcome Team 5's tinkering with offering rates on a regular basis, however, given the Arena meta we saw just before the release of Un'Goro.
Data on how often Rogue is picked when offered gives an approximation but not the exact same data as what would be obtained from seeing how often Rogue is picked when all choices are offered.
For example, here is a simple thought experiment to show the difference. Say 100 people in the world play Hearthstone arena. 33 of these people will pick Rogue immediately if offered, the other 67 hate Rogue and would never pick it. In the current system, if Rogue was offered to all 33peoplewho like Rogue and 0 times to any of the others Rogue would appear to have a 100% pick rate. Conversely, if the 33 people who were offered Rogue were from the 67 Rogue hater group, Rogue would have a 0% pick rate. Both rates would be way off from reality whereas if all 100 people were given all 9 options it would yield the 33% rate.
... and that's why people around here are always talking about how sample size matters.
With a large enough sample size (i.e., all Arena drafts by all Arena players in the world), your extremely specific and unlikely scenario is close enough to impossible that a statistician would happily disregard it (or, more accurately, consider it part of a reasonable margin of error).
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
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I mean really, if they're going to be totally inept at balancing the classes (like giving mage/hunter all good cards), at least make it so everybody can play mage or hunter every run if they choose to do so.
Could care less if it's boring or stale, but it should at least be fair.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
Getting a strong hint of nacl from this post
Always Hunters. Always Huffers.
I want to be able to play Arena knowing everyone wouldn't be playing Mage because of an age long saying that they're the best........
No
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
You know, the one thing I've learned from my personal challenge is there really aren't any sub-par classes. Yes, some are stronger at times than others, but every class is capable of deep arena runs in every meta... with a capable player. If you can't win with every class because you play them all the same way, that's not a class balance problem--that's a you problem.
Old school WoW Mage motto: if you don't end the run with the most damage dealt AND the most deaths, you're not trying hard enough.
For God sake no. I don't want to play against the same class every single game just because some streamer told people it was the best, it's bad enough as it is. There is no 'advantage' or 'disadvantage', in the long run everyone gets offered every class equally.
In fact, I would go a step further and remove class selection altogether! Get everyone playing with every class, that would allow skill to differentiate itself far better.
Oh and The fact you think Mage and Hunter are by far the best classes indicates you're not nearly as smart as you think you are.
The only cancer in Hearthstone is its community.
in this meta I played against hunters 14 times so far. I won 13 times. so yeah guys, just pick hunters. :)
I know its a small sample size, I only played 69 games so far in Ungoro, but it seems hunter was better in the previous meta or you are drafting the wrong way. :)
Letting everyone pick the class they want would be great in helping Blizzard (hopefully) better balance arena. If 70% of players were picking either Mage or Rogue for example, that would be a clear sign they needed to weaken them. Conversely, if 5% were picking Druid + Warrior then that would be a clear sign to boost the rates for some of their cards to be offered.
Hey, balancing issues in an RNG based game type, not that straight forward.
Part one, if you adjust the game to balance rng, you alter the entire face of wild and standard. Most likely breaking one or both of them.
Part two, the sample size necessary would be very large over several months. So my best estimation, 100k players and about 1000 games per player. Over at minimum 4 months. Due to availability of play time. I mean we do have lives.
Part three, the idea that seems to have the most merit would be to open full class selection to find the most popular choice, cross checked with the highest win ratio. With both of those pieces of data there would be a start to figuring out if an imbalance exists.
TL;DR So in conclusion, RNG will always give the feeling of imbalance, and if you want an arena rework, prepare for a long wait.
My 2 cents.
Cute, ineffective, but cute.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I'd actually want Arena to not offer you the same class you played in your last run actually. I think this can easily be managed. Of course it just means the top 2 classes will be played the most, but would still increase diversity somewhat than like the 25% mage pool I'm seeing right now.
Regular NA Arena Leaderboard player.
Reached #1 in NA arena leaderboard in May 2018 with a 9.07 average!
Lots of salt makes people say funny things.
Holy hell no. I'd much rather go the other way and have the class you are be fully randomized in the beginning. No choice at all. That way top arena players would actually have to be skilled across classes, and not at the highest win rates because they only play the top 2 or 3 classes 95% of the time.
#1 NA, January 2018 Arena leaderboard. twitch.tv/sirosis_hs
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland