Hearthpwn

Quote from psykechan >>

Quote from beppe946 >>

Hi everyone,

a few weeks ago I managed to hit rank 5 with Midrange Hunter despite having Zul'jin in my deck. Since then I've played very little in ranked due to university exams and a couple of days ago (after the Balance Patch) I started climbing again, but I haven't been able to go beyond Rank 4. Because of that, I'm now considering to craft Zul'jin in order to get that nice late game push and to justify most of the spells I'm running.

Now, some questions: considering that I'm playing a regular Midrange Hunter list (more or less this one), is it a deck worth the craft? Cause I'm feeling like I'm being annihilated by this new meta: maybe it's not that good anymore (or maybe it's just some bad luck of mine). Moreover, I think that there will soon be another balance patch, as the Devs left intended a week ago. Considering this case scenario, would this craft lose some of its value?

Thanks!

I'm going to assume that you did not have Zul'jin in your Midrange Hunter deck since you are considering crafting him. Also, there is going to be a balance patch (18 card buffs and 1 card nerf) on June 3rd which will likely affect the meta in some way. If you are on the fence on crafting, please hold on for a few weeks.

However, since I would still very recommend crafting Zul'jin, lets look at his strengths, status post the rogue nerf, and speculate about usage post the Boomsday Buff patch.

Zul'jin's power comes from being able a single card to "reload" your board, and in some cases, your hand. He is most useful with secrets, summoning spells (with one exception), and and enemy-targeted spells like Deadly Shot. He is somewhat less useful with neutral-targeted spells like Kill Command as it can (and will!) hit your side of the board, or spells like Tracking where you don't get to discover what card you pull. Well worth the 10 mana to play, plus as a nice bonus you get 5 armor and permanent Steamwheedle Sniper effect for the rest of the game.

Of the five hunter archetypes (Secret Hunter, Midrange Beast Hunter, Bomb Mech Hunter, Deathrattle Mech Hunter, and Spell Hunter), Zul'jin was in use in all but Bomb Hunter which tried to close games before turn 10. Midrange Hunter also tried to close games before 10 but if you did have to go longer, he was invaluable.

Tempo rogue was one of hunter's boogeymen being able to kill much faster. Tempo rogue is dead now, however, all hunter archetypes still struggle against Token Druid, Murloc Shaman, and Zoo Warlock; decks that can flood the board so that hunter can't keep up. If hunter can survive into late game, they will often win simply due to value from Zul'jin. Bomb Hunter suffered at the hands of Tempo Rogue like all of the other archetypes, but it preyed upon Tempo Rogue's counter deck Control Warrior. With Control Warrior not having their favorite prey anymore their numbers dwindle so Bomb Hunter's advantage dwindles too. Terribly sorry for those who crafted Boommaster Flark but Zul'jin is by far the superior late game card.

With the Boomsday Buffs approaching, we have to look at if the two buffed hunter cards (Necromechanic and Flark's Boom-Zooka) and SN1P-SN4P will help, and we have to see if there are any distinct problems that other buffed classes will impose.

SN1P-SN4P will be a moderate boost to Bomb Hunter and a very minor boost to Deathrattle Hunter. Will it make Bomb Hunter want to use Zul'jin? No. Will it make Zul'jin better in Deathrattle Hunter? Not really as it makes Nine Lives slightly worse filling up precious Zul'jin board space with 1/1s.

Will the Flark's Boom-Zooka buff make a difference? Ha ha ha no, not in standard at least. Wild Big Charge Beast Hunter may climb up to being a tier 4 deck, so at least there's that.

How about Necromechanic? This one is very interesting. Houndmaster Shaw has shown us that even playing a minion like this on curve is viable as it can be difficult to clear. Deathrattle Hunter will definitely use this and Bomb Hunter may think about it over SN1P-SN4P. Having Nine Lives trigger twice off of Zul'Jin is not bad but it's certainly no game changer.

About the other classes? Warrior and Paladin may improve slightly. I don't think that they will give hunter too many problems. Shaman and Mage are getting a slight buff that will make them better against hunter. That's about it though.

First of all thanks for your impressive analysis: you touched a lot of points and supported your arguments. Well done!

Secondly, I have to admit I crafted him a couple of hours after my post here: I felt like it is a card that won't be ever be bad (maybe just if the whole class is a pile of trash); just slap a couple of good spells in your deck and you'll have a decent turn 10+.

It's been less than 48 hours and he has already won me a considerable amount of games (finisher, last resort, value generator): the game plan radically changes when you know you're going to spend those 10 mana.

Your reasoning is valid whether Hunter will be bad/will use anti-synergistic spells, but until then (I really hope it won't happen) HERE COMES THE BIG AXE!

Hi everyone,

a few weeks ago I managed to hit rank 5 with Midrange Hunter despite having Zul'jin in my deck. Since then I've played very little in ranked due to university exams and a couple of days ago (after the Balance Patch) I started climbing again, but I haven't been able to go beyond Rank 4. Because of that, I'm now considering to craft Zul'jin in order to get that nice late game push and to justify most of the spells I'm running.

Now, some questions: considering that I'm playing a regular Midrange Hunter list (more or less this one), is it a deck worth the craft? Cause I'm feeling like I'm being annihilated by this new meta: maybe it's not that good anymore (or maybe it's just some bad luck of mine). Moreover, I think that there will soon be another balance patch, as the Devs left intended a week ago. Considering this case scenario, would this craft lose some of its value?

Thanks!

Quote from WhiskyGeorge >>

Madame Lazul being Tier 5 is literally absolute complete horseshit. It's the only card so far that lets you peek at your opponent's hand. In that respect, it also plays an excellent psychological game - your opponent panics, switches up their strategy hastily and starts making easy mistakes. Even if their hand is trash it has uses.

Every time I played her, my opponents started making amateur mistakes. Only time she's genuinely useless is in adventures/AI in general, and botted accounts.

 Priest is absolute horseshit. Bring us a tier 3 or higher deck that runs Lazul and you'll be right. Remember: a card can be powerful as much as you want, but if it doesn't find a good place in the meta then it's useless.

Just in order to help, King Mukla's text still contains references to Oaken Summons and Jungle Giants

Quote from SamHobbs494 >>

Golden Scargil worth keeping? I have no intention of playing murloc shaman and it just seems like I could craft anything else with it lol

In my opinion Scargil is too slow for a Murloc deck, unless you highroll or play him in some sort of Control deck (yeah, sounds ridiculous but it's actually very funny) like Firebat's one.

I'm not 100% sure but nearly; however you should wait a bit more before dusting him

A question for the Wild experts: I own Temporus and Blood-Queen Lana'thel. Both have never been staple in any kind of deck and will rotate in a month or so.

What should I do? Is it wise to keep them or should I dust them?

Consider that I think I'll play a little of Wild in the future, but I also need some dust due to HoF reasons.

Quote from Highwayman37 >>

Quote from SamHobbs494 >>

The fact that Zerek, Voone and Grumble are considered trash (t4 for Grumble) genuinely saddens me. All 3 are great cards with great effects with loads of value to be gained. Just shows how mindless most players are and just follow the crowd and the streamers. You can bet if a couple of streamers loved these cards they would be all over the place in no time. It's like everyone is wearing those horse blinder things and can only see 5% of whats there

Objectively speaking they are all way better than things higher on the list but they aren't in 65% winrate decks so "they suck". Yea seem totally legit and logical, well done HS players 

 It's not just about netdecking, it's also about the cards winrates.  When people are creative enough to create wacky decks like topsy turvy OTK priest and still can't find a way to win without Zerek, Voone and Grumble (at least post-saronite nerf) then why would they be ranked higher? They are better than things higher simply because you like them? That's not really how it works.

Those three don't even work in meme decks, they are very fairly ranked.  

 He doesn't mean they don't deserve their rankings, but that those cards haven't express their full potential yet. They're high value generator minions, however nowadays this aspect only isn't enough to make a card see play

Quote from Mackie264 >>

This tier list is misleading af, how is thekal a tier 1 legendary? No one plays him, he's effect is too slow and only good if played super early, not saying he's bad but for sure not tier 1.

Also no way cloning gallery and myra's are below such cards, they are both insane cards that make certain archetypes (very strong archetypes) viable, they should both be tier 1 and for sure rated higher that thekal. Who made this list, Grumble tier 2? It sees 0 play since the saronite nerf, what if someone crafts him thinking it's good, to then realize that it doesn't properly fit into any deck. Same with DK Garrosh and Thrall, when was the last you saw those cards played at all, they are just bad, definitely shouldn't be on a tier 2 list for legendaries to craft, this guide is extremely misleading and meme honestly. A lot of the cards are in the right spot but a ridiculous amounts of others are either too high up or just seem to be underestimated for whatever reason, you guys should really revise this tier list and fix it ASAP.

Jesus I just realized that Valeera and Malfurion are rated lower than fricking Thrall and Garrosh, seriously who made this list? Valeera is not seeing a ton of play now (the rare quest and maly sometimes) but it definitely sees way more play that Thrall or Garrosh and it's infinitely better if we just consider each of those 3 cards in a vacuum. Same with Malf, Druid is almost gone after the nerfs and not a single druid list is running it but again, on a vacuum it's miles better than Thrall and Garrosh and those 2 don't see any play at all and rarely have. Valeera should either be like low tier 2 (I know there's not such a rating but you could give a description like this is barely tier 2 cause of its power level but it doesn't have a lot of space in this meta) or leave it at tier 3 but fix the other ones. Malf should be tier 3 and even maybe 4 cause now it's extremely niche. Thrall should be tier 4 at most cause it can be mediocre in some situations but nothing more, probably even tier 5 that card saw little play on the KFT meta and even more fringe play last meta with tempo shudderwock, otherwise it's garbage and borderline unplayable, token and mid-range shaman are not real decks and the only other shaman deck (other than even) is aggro shaman and that deck doesn't run DK either. Finally Garrosh is just terrible, it saw play on DMH warrior cause there were literally no other good cards, it hasn't seen any play since and it's just a terrible card, specially when there's Dr.Boom (which isn't too crazy either).

Tier lists should be absolutely objective and this one doesn't seem like it, it can be very misleading to new and unexperienced players, like I know the mentioned cards are bad and see absolutely no play so I won't spend my dust on Thekal or Thrall even if you rank them so high (for what they actually achieve and the amount of play they see)  but new players don't know any better and they will trust this kind of guides. Also you can't put a card high up just cause it may be good in the future or something like that, what if it doesn't get better in the future? Even with cards that have crazy effects like Thekal you never know, it might still be too slow and not worth in the future, who knows. If you're gonna do stuff like that you should have an unraked tier that's like NOT WORTH TO CRAFT BUT SAFE TO KEEP IF YOU OPEN IT, in which you could put cards like Cairne, Black Knight, Deathwing, Floop's Gloop and other cards that you shouldn't be crafting but that you should keep if you ever open them cause they're ok/decent and have such powerful/unique effects that could possibly see play in the future but it's uncertain,

SERIOUSLY GUYS GO THROUGH THIS TIER LIST AGAIN AND FIX ALL THOSE CARDS THAT ARE POORLY RATED (and some others I didn't mention) CAUSE GETTING FUCKED AS A NEW PLAYER CAN RUIN THE GAME FOR YOU. We were all there and dust is as precious as life when you're starting, no need to wreck unexperienced players when we could be helping them.

 

 Everyone tries to give a contribute in a proactive way. Most of those who reply to this thread recognize the difficulties behind it, but also its benefits for everyone. From some points of view, it's kinda a subjective matter and it surely has its minimal flaws.

But your arrogance will not help anyone, so please try to tone down and be kind instead of being a fucking solon who thinks to know the game better than everyone else.

Cheers

Lately I'm facing an Aggro/Midrange Rogue that runs Leeroy as a finisher (Cold Blood and Shadowstep) and Gral, the Shark as a (I think) tutor for minions.

Quote from Kovachut >>

So I have been trying to make my wild Steal Priest memeier. What's your opinion on Chameleos?

He is marked as tier 4 (aka niche), but this isn't important to me. I only care about the fun aspect.

 I think its main force is not being able to play a card from your opponent's hand, but being able to know what the other player has.

Personally, despite it's not very good to top deck when you're in need of answers, it saved me many times, leading me to wait one more turn before making a certain play and avoid a Tarim or a Flamestrike

I think you should permanently stick this thread or something related to it on the homepage (maybe using the "class popularity graphic" spot, which I think it's not that great): it's very useful.

Anyways, props to the creator