Golden Scargil worth keeping? I have no intention of playing murloc shaman and it just seems like I could craft anything else with it lol
In my opinion Scargil is too slow for a Murloc deck, unless you highroll or play him in some sort of Control deck (yeah, sounds ridiculous but it's actually very funny) like Firebat's one.
I'm not 100% sure but nearly; however you should wait a bit more before dusting him
The Boom Reaver is playable and is a great pull from Omega Assembly, but I don't think anyone should craft him, just like Emeriss, good when generated, bad anywhere else. Tier 3-4 maybe?
The Boom Reaver is playable and is a great pull from Omega Assembly, but I don't think anyone should craft him, just like Emeriss, good when generated, bad anywhere else. Tier 3-4 maybe?
Yeah, I'm also wondering about that high rating. Is there a deck, where The Boom Reaver is being used (outside wild recruit warrior probably)?
The Boom Reaver is playable and is a great pull from Omega Assembly, but I don't think anyone should craft him, just like Emeriss, good when generated, bad anywhere else. Tier 3-4 maybe?
Yeah, I'm also wondering about that high rating. Is there a deck, where The Boom Reaver is being used (outside wild recruit warrior probably)?
It is used in Big warrior but the deck is not played much. Changed the projection to 2-4 as the card might go lower than I first expected.
There is a lot of insecurity regarding the cards that have not been placed yet.
blastmaster boom is clearly great in bomb warrior. but only there. and even then i fear it might not even be a top top notch card. after encountering 7-8 bom bwarriors i have yet to lose against that archetype with midrange hunter (but not playing ranks 5-legend, though).
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Cross-server challenge-a-friend quest trading:
If you play primarily on NA, but also on EU, then maybe you are interested in cross-server trading? Whenever I get the 80g quest on NA I would love to give it away and get it on EU in return. If you'd like a long-lasting trade routine, drop me a message here on hearthpwn!
Yogg-Saron challenge: Whenever you encounter a Yogg Saron player - concede in honor and send a friend request. It takes balls to play a card that usually results in your own death. :D
blastmaster boom is clearly great in bomb warrior. but only there. and even then i fear it might not even be a top top notch card. after encountering 7-8 bom bwarriors i have yet to lose against that archetype with midrange hunter (but not playing ranks 5-legend, though).
The thing is that "bomb" warrior is not really an archetype, but rather a package that can fit into many different decks. But yes, he might get demoted and has fallen off in winrate, but I still think he is still a clear tier 1 craft.
The problem is that the minions die, so the effect is both build-around, situational and unreliable. Maybe some deathrattle deck can save him from tier 5??
Yes, some other cards will likely go to tier 5 as well, but there are arguments for jamming it all into tier 4 until we know for sure.
I crafted Betrug for wild and I don't regret it. He's extremely good in cubelock as you can pull him out with voidcaller or skull. Sense demons is something you play in wild cubelock anyway and plot twist doesn't hurt it much. Unlike in standard, he has a lot of powerful pulls: doomguards have charge instead of rush, voidcaller and voidlord have deathrattles. Wild has a lot of other powerful deathrattles you can experiment with like Sylvanas. You can also cube something instead of letting it die at the end of turn. The deck took me to rank 5 today
I've seen him played in the darkest hour deck too. I don't think darkest hour warlock is strictly superior to cubelock either. If you don't highroll an early combo and miss pulling your neurbian unraveler, an AOE can wipe out all your threats. Unlike big priest, you can't res your big dudes and once they're gone, they're gone. A non-greedy cubelock also has much better consistency; the darkest hour deck is prone to a lot of bad hands. Remember nagalock back in the day? Naga is a one card combo but this new one is 3 cards to combo on 5 or 2 cards to combo later
The problem is that the minions die, so the effect is both build-around, situational and unreliable. Maybe some deathrattle deck can save him from tier 5??
Yes, some other cards will likely go to tier 5 as well, but there are arguments for jamming it all into tier 4 until we know for sure.
I crafted Betrug for wild and I don't regret it. He's extremely good in cubelock as you can pull him out with voidcaller or skull. Sense demons is something you play in wild cubelock anyway and plot twist doesn't hurt it much. Unlike in standard, he has a lot of powerful pulls: doomguards have charge instead of rush, voidcaller and voidlord have deathrattles. Wild has a lot of other powerful deathrattles you can experiment with like Sylvanas. You can also cube something instead of letting it die at the end of turn. The deck took me to rank 5 today
I've seen him played in the darkest hour deck too. I don't think darkest hour warlock is strictly superior to cubelock either. If you don't highroll an early combo and miss pulling your neurbian unraveler, an AOE can wipe out all your threats. Unlike big priest, you can't res your big dudes and once they're gone, they're gone. A non-greedy cubelock also has much better consistency; the darkest hour deck is prone to a lot of bad hands. Remember nagalock back in the day? Naga is a one card combo but this new one is 3 cards to combo on 5 or 2 cards to combo later
Yes, Belrug seems to be doing better in Wild than in standard. However, he has very stiff competition for his spot from cards like Kruul, Sylvanas, Kelthu, N'Zoth, Rag or just more aoe, removal, healing or tech. He belongs in tier 4 there as it seems now.
About the naga decks, you had to draw your giants too, so calling it a 1-card combo is not accurate. Pulling minions from your deck is pretty different from playing them from hand.
I'm personally not a fan of seeing King Mosh in Tier 5. It may have changed since RoS's release, but it was a great card in Wild Odd Warrior as a way to both clear the board and add an additional threat.
blastmaster boom is clearly great in bomb warrior. but only there. and even then i fear it might not even be a top top notch card. after encountering 7-8 bom bwarriors i have yet to lose against that archetype with midrange hunter (but not playing ranks 5-legend, though).
The thing is that "bomb" warrior is not really an archetype, but rather a package that can fit into many different decks. But yes, he might get demoted and has fallen off in winrate, but I still think he is still a clear tier 1 craft.
makes sense. I don't have thaaaat much experience and atm i play only one deck on ranked play and dr boom not being great against it is a very narrow view. thanks for all the updates, it seems many legends are quite underperforming.
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Cross-server challenge-a-friend quest trading:
If you play primarily on NA, but also on EU, then maybe you are interested in cross-server trading? Whenever I get the 80g quest on NA I would love to give it away and get it on EU in return. If you'd like a long-lasting trade routine, drop me a message here on hearthpwn!
Yogg-Saron challenge: Whenever you encounter a Yogg Saron player - concede in honor and send a friend request. It takes balls to play a card that usually results in your own death. :D
I crafted Betrug for wild and I don't regret it. He's extremely good in cubelock as you can pull him out with voidcaller or skull. Sense demons is something you play in wild cubelock anyway and plot twist doesn't hurt it much. Unlike in standard, he has a lot of powerful pulls: doomguards have charge instead of rush, voidcaller and voidlord have deathrattles. Wild has a lot of other powerful deathrattles you can experiment with like Sylvanas. You can also cube something instead of letting it die at the end of turn. The deck took me to rank 5 today
I've seen him played in the darkest hour deck too. I don't think darkest hour warlock is strictly superior to cubelock either. If you don't highroll an early combo and miss pulling your neurbian unraveler, an AOE can wipe out all your threats. Unlike big priest, you can't res your big dudes and once they're gone, they're gone. A non-greedy cubelock also has much better consistency; the darkest hour deck is prone to a lot of bad hands. Remember nagalock back in the day? Naga is a one card combo but this new one is 3 cards to combo on 5 or 2 cards to combo later
He does not really fit well into DH. I haven't seen much DH, but more and more pro wild players get convinced that DH is actually really strong. Consistency is the main problem. Less consistent than star aligner druid, but it can go off sooner. I am confident we will find the deck in tier 1 in the next VS wild report. And the one after that it might be tier S. One of the main reason it might be underperforming is that the deck is not yet well refined (like people putting betrug in it), but it will get there. if you have BB and DH in your hand at some point, match is probably over (because you have also so many 1/1 demon generator-cards, you do not really need to fish for them and you can sometimes play them on curve as well, possibly getting your combo one turn earlier if your opponent does not deal with the board).
I also believe now more and more that we will see a nerf. My guess is bloodbloom. Just a matter of time.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cross-server challenge-a-friend quest trading:
If you play primarily on NA, but also on EU, then maybe you are interested in cross-server trading? Whenever I get the 80g quest on NA I would love to give it away and get it on EU in return. If you'd like a long-lasting trade routine, drop me a message here on hearthpwn!
Yogg-Saron challenge: Whenever you encounter a Yogg Saron player - concede in honor and send a friend request. It takes balls to play a card that usually results in your own death. :D
I'm personally not a fan of seeing King Mosh in Tier 5. It may have changed since RoS's release, but it was a great card in Wild Odd Warrior as a way to both clear the board and add an additional threat.
He still sees very little play, and so does Wild odd warrior, which is not really a viable archetype afaik. The main problem is that his main synergy, Whirlwind is too weak to run at this stage of power creep.
Tier 4: Fel Lord Betrug* - Staple in weak Plot Twist warlocks, better synergies in Wild. Nozari* - Playabel in Dragon paladin but very low winrate.
Tier 5: Lucentbark* - Staple in heal druid, very low winrate. Madame Lazul* - Weak card tried in several priest decks. Tak Nozwhisker* - Playable in Thief rogue, very low winrate.
Over all, the set is doing very well, helped underway by the rotation of 3 very powerful expansion and the HoF inclusions.
Feedback appreciated as always, updates will happen!
I crafted Betrug for wild and I don't regret it. He's extremely good in cubelock as you can pull him out with voidcaller or skull. Sense demons is something you play in wild cubelock anyway and plot twist doesn't hurt it much. Unlike in standard, he has a lot of powerful pulls: doomguards have charge instead of rush, voidcaller and voidlord have deathrattles. Wild has a lot of other powerful deathrattles you can experiment with like Sylvanas. You can also cube something instead of letting it die at the end of turn. The deck took me to rank 5 today
I've seen him played in the darkest hour deck too. I don't think darkest hour warlock is strictly superior to cubelock either. If you don't highroll an early combo and miss pulling your neurbian unraveler, an AOE can wipe out all your threats. Unlike big priest, you can't res your big dudes and once they're gone, they're gone. A non-greedy cubelock also has much better consistency; the darkest hour deck is prone to a lot of bad hands. Remember nagalock back in the day? Naga is a one card combo but this new one is 3 cards to combo on 5 or 2 cards to combo later
He does not really fit well into DH. I haven't seen much DH, but more and more pro wild players get convinced that DH is actually really strong. Consistency is the main problem. Less consistent than star aligner druid, but it can go off sooner. I am confident we will find the deck in tier 1 in the next VS wild report. And the one after that it might be tier S. One of the main reason it might be underperforming is that the deck is not yet well refined (like people putting betrug in it), but it will get there. if you have BB and DH in your hand at some point, match is probably over (because you have also so many 1/1 demon generator-cards, you do not really need to fish for them and you can sometimes play them on curve as well, possibly getting your combo one turn earlier if your opponent does not deal with the board).
I also believe now more and more that we will see a nerf. My guess is bloodbloom. Just a matter of time.
you will see that the current popular deck is not runnning Fel Lord Betrug and has almost 60% win-rate. I also think, that Bloodbloom is the main offender here, but nerfing it will affect Mecha'thun warlock far more than DH imho.
[edit] I find it kinda funny, that people dismissed Bloodbloom back in the days. Yeah, I know that warlock was non-existent in JtU due to the lack of good healing options (and, no, the Medivh combo wasn't good enough) and there was no need for mana cheat until TBP, but the spell bore a lot of potential and it just needed some time, before people could find the best use for it.
As for Betrug - I actually want to open him. He seems like a fun inclusion and I'm a fan of the Plot Twist archtype despite not being a strong one atm. Imho it will increase in popularity and in power, when warlock gets a mid-game AoE. One question though - how essential is Dollmaster Dorian in that deck? I don't know if I want to craft him just to include him in a single deck-list.
Should be noted that Arch Thief Rafaam has synergy with Ink Master Solya and Medihv the last guardian maybe.
In my opinion Scargil is too slow for a Murloc deck, unless you highroll or play him in some sort of Control deck (yeah, sounds ridiculous but it's actually very funny) like Firebat's one.
I'm not 100% sure but nearly; however you should wait a bit more before dusting him
Some mure initial placements and corrections:
Catrina Muerte To tier 3
Arch-Villain Rafaam To tier 2
Kalecgos To tier 2
Khadgar To tier 2
Crystalsmith Kangor Tier 1 to 3
Bwonsamdi, the Dead Tier 4 to 5
Chameleos Tier 4 to 5
Cairne Bloodhoof Tier 4 to 3
Flark's Boom-Zooka Tier 4 to 2
Some uses and references to rotated decks also fixed.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
Just in order to help, King Mukla's text still contains references to Oaken Summons and Jungle Giants
Just curious as to why Flark's Boom Zooka has jumped up, I don't see any decks using that card?
probably was meant to be flark himself. he's staple in bomb hunter which mid tier 2 currently.
*stealth edit*
More updates:
Swampqueen Hagatha To tier 3
Nozari To tier 4
Barista Lynchen To tier 3
Vereesa Windrunner To tier 3
Tak Nozwhisker To tier 5
3 new cards lacking placement, mostly because it is not easy to tell how strong they are atm.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
The Boom Reaver is playable and is a great pull from Omega Assembly, but I don't think anyone should craft him, just like Emeriss, good when generated, bad anywhere else. Tier 3-4 maybe?
Yeah, I'm also wondering about that high rating. Is there a deck, where The Boom Reaver is being used (outside wild recruit warrior probably)?
It is used in Big warrior but the deck is not played much. Changed the projection to 2-4 as the card might go lower than I first expected.
There is a lot of insecurity regarding the cards that have not been placed yet.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
blastmaster boom is clearly great in bomb warrior. but only there. and even then i fear it might not even be a top top notch card. after encountering 7-8 bom bwarriors i have yet to lose against that archetype with midrange hunter (but not playing ranks 5-legend, though).
Cross-server challenge-a-friend quest trading:
If you play primarily on NA, but also on EU, then maybe you are interested in cross-server trading? Whenever I get the 80g quest on NA I would love to give it away and get it on EU in return. If you'd like a long-lasting trade routine, drop me a message here on hearthpwn!
Yogg-Saron challenge:
Whenever you encounter a Yogg Saron player - concede in honor and send a friend request. It takes balls to play a card that usually results in your own death. :D
The thing is that "bomb" warrior is not really an archetype, but rather a package that can fit into many different decks. But yes, he might get demoted and has fallen off in winrate, but I still think he is still a clear tier 1 craft.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
I crafted Betrug for wild and I don't regret it. He's extremely good in cubelock as you can pull him out with voidcaller or skull. Sense demons is something you play in wild cubelock anyway and plot twist doesn't hurt it much. Unlike in standard, he has a lot of powerful pulls: doomguards have charge instead of rush, voidcaller and voidlord have deathrattles. Wild has a lot of other powerful deathrattles you can experiment with like Sylvanas. You can also cube something instead of letting it die at the end of turn. The deck took me to rank 5 today
I've seen him played in the darkest hour deck too. I don't think darkest hour warlock is strictly superior to cubelock either. If you don't highroll an early combo and miss pulling your neurbian unraveler, an AOE can wipe out all your threats. Unlike big priest, you can't res your big dudes and once they're gone, they're gone. A non-greedy cubelock also has much better consistency; the darkest hour deck is prone to a lot of bad hands. Remember nagalock back in the day? Naga is a one card combo but this new one is 3 cards to combo on 5 or 2 cards to combo later
Legend with : S65 Freeze Mage, S57 Maly Gonk Druid, S57 "Okay" Shaman, S53 Boom-zooka Hunter, S53 Maly Tog Druid, S52 Wild Tog Druid ft.Blingtron, S50 Quest Rogue, S49 Dead Man's Warrior, S41 Wild Clown Fiesta Druid, S41 Hadronox Jade Druid, S40 Wild OTK Dragon Druid, S35 SMOrc Shaman, S33 Jade Druid, S22 Control Priest, S19 Control Priest
Yes, Belrug seems to be doing better in Wild than in standard. However, he has very stiff competition for his spot from cards like Kruul, Sylvanas, Kelthu, N'Zoth, Rag or just more aoe, removal, healing or tech. He belongs in tier 4 there as it seems now.
About the naga decks, you had to draw your giants too, so calling it a 1-card combo is not accurate. Pulling minions from your deck is pretty different from playing them from hand.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
I'm personally not a fan of seeing King Mosh in Tier 5. It may have changed since RoS's release, but it was a great card in Wild Odd Warrior as a way to both clear the board and add an additional threat.
makes sense. I don't have thaaaat much experience and atm i play only one deck on ranked play and dr boom not being great against it is a very narrow view. thanks for all the updates, it seems many legends are quite underperforming.
Cross-server challenge-a-friend quest trading:
If you play primarily on NA, but also on EU, then maybe you are interested in cross-server trading? Whenever I get the 80g quest on NA I would love to give it away and get it on EU in return. If you'd like a long-lasting trade routine, drop me a message here on hearthpwn!
Yogg-Saron challenge:
Whenever you encounter a Yogg Saron player - concede in honor and send a friend request. It takes balls to play a card that usually results in your own death. :D
He does not really fit well into DH. I haven't seen much DH, but more and more pro wild players get convinced that DH is actually really strong. Consistency is the main problem. Less consistent than star aligner druid, but it can go off sooner.
I am confident we will find the deck in tier 1 in the next VS wild report. And the one after that it might be tier S.
One of the main reason it might be underperforming is that the deck is not yet well refined (like people putting betrug in it), but it will get there. if you have BB and DH in your hand at some point, match is probably over (because you have also so many 1/1 demon generator-cards, you do not really need to fish for them and you can sometimes play them on curve as well, possibly getting your combo one turn earlier if your opponent does not deal with the board).
I also believe now more and more that we will see a nerf. My guess is bloodbloom. Just a matter of time.
Cross-server challenge-a-friend quest trading:
If you play primarily on NA, but also on EU, then maybe you are interested in cross-server trading? Whenever I get the 80g quest on NA I would love to give it away and get it on EU in return. If you'd like a long-lasting trade routine, drop me a message here on hearthpwn!
Yogg-Saron challenge:
Whenever you encounter a Yogg Saron player - concede in honor and send a friend request. It takes balls to play a card that usually results in your own death. :D
He still sees very little play, and so does Wild odd warrior, which is not really a viable archetype afaik. The main problem is that his main synergy, Whirlwind is too weak to run at this stage of power creep.
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
All legendaries have been placed in the list!
Tier 1:
Archmage Vargoth* - Strong synergies in many decks, notably token druid.
Blastmaster Boom* - Staple in bomb warrior decks.
Keeper Stalladris* - Staple in token druid.
Tier 2:
Archivist Elysiana* - Strong card in slow warrior decks, playable in control decks.
Arch-Villain Rafaam* - Playable in strong zoolock decks but can be replaced.
Chef Nomi* - Strong synergy with Myra's Unstable Element in tempo rogue but is replaceable.
Commander Rhyssa* - Staple in Secret and Secret Mech paladin.
Heistbaron Togwaggle* Strong synergy with EVIL Miscreant in tempo rogue but is replaceable.
Kalecgos* -Staple in Khadgar dragon mage.
Khadgar* - Buildaround for slower mage decks running Conjurer's Calling.
Oblivitron* - Staple in mechrattle hunter.
Scargil* - Staple in murloc shaman.
Tier 3:
Barista Lynchen* - Playable in Dragon paladin and Warrior, might find new uses in the future.
Catrina Muerte* - Staple in resurrect combo priest.
Jepetto Joybuzz* - Staple in Malygos spell hunter, combo potential.
Swampqueen Hagatha* - Interresting card playable in any shaman deck.
The Boom Reaver* - Staple in Big warrior.
Vereesa Windrunner* - Staple in Malygos secret hunter.
Tier 4:
Fel Lord Betrug* - Staple in weak Plot Twist warlocks, better synergies in Wild.
Nozari* - Playabel in Dragon paladin but very low winrate.
Tier 5:
Lucentbark* - Staple in heal druid, very low winrate.
Madame Lazul* - Weak card tried in several priest decks.
Tak Nozwhisker* - Playable in Thief rogue, very low winrate.
Over all, the set is doing very well, helped underway by the rotation of 3 very powerful expansion and the HoF inclusions.
Feedback appreciated as always, updates will happen!
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide
If you go to the following link
https://hsreplay.net/decks/aAHdZVNeOPqZFe9PUYrNSb/#gameType=RANKED_WILD
you will see that the current popular deck is not runnning Fel Lord Betrug and has almost 60% win-rate. I also think, that Bloodbloom is the main offender here, but nerfing it will affect Mecha'thun warlock far more than DH imho.
[edit] I find it kinda funny, that people dismissed Bloodbloom back in the days. Yeah, I know that warlock was non-existent in JtU due to the lack of good healing options (and, no, the Medivh combo wasn't good enough) and there was no need for mana cheat until TBP, but the spell bore a lot of potential and it just needed some time, before people could find the best use for it.
As for Betrug - I actually want to open him. He seems like a fun inclusion and I'm a fan of the Plot Twist archtype despite not being a strong one atm. Imho it will increase in popularity and in power, when warlock gets a mid-game AoE. One question though - how essential is Dollmaster Dorian in that deck? I don't know if I want to craft him just to include him in a single deck-list.