Hearthpwn

Wanna tell you all thing that was never mentioned before.

Casual new players (whom play several games for fun) are not going to live within Hearthstone, they just play some games for fun some days a week and thats enough. 

IF you are new-upcoming-pro-star-WCG-basher then you of course need to invest your time and/or money. But if you just play some games for fun you do not care a lot. Also new players do not meet tier1 decks in casual, but the decks equal to theirs'.

And half year is not that much to achieve most needed cards, to completely understand WC3:TFT I spend about 6 years, and Im still unexperienced, so 150+ days are just.. Training?

it costs a lot if you want gold cards, if you dont then its pretty cheap

Quote from KKoolis jump

As a F2P hearthstone player , im one of the lucky ones who dived in since the closed beta. Hence , my collection is quite extensive , i can build several competitive decks and i have a few important legends ( sylvanas , rag , boom , leeroy.) I don't mind collecting packs and building my collection slowly because , for me , it's very fun to open packs and i feel like im earning my collection. It crossed my mind several times to buy a big bunch of packs in the past but i keep deciding not to. It's just more fun for me. Another reason why i wont is that packs are , naturally , rng , as they should be. So , whenever i get tempted to buy them with $$$ , i think "what if i pay 60 euros and get like ,one cho and one millhouse...?" So , i rather be happy getting a trash legend or epic for the dust they will give me , than feel depressed for spending my money on bullshit-filled packs.

What really , really hurts me though is adventures. I admire people who have the patience to farm the gold to open wings. For me , it's impossible. Everytime i decide to farm g for a wing , i make it to 400-500 and then im like "fuck it , lets buy packs , im feelin lucky." I simply can't. I would if they costed less but 700 for each wing is too much for me , personally. And ofcourse , adventures are full of must-have cards. There are so many decks that i'd love to play but cannot , because im missing adventure cards , like KT , flamewalkers , scientists etc. So , i think that , sooner or later i'll break my F2P streak and just buy the damn adventures already...

I got u, bro. Happened to me too. The worst thing about adventures is that some rare/common cards sometimes cost 3500 gold just to have them....

It depends on how much you value what you're getting. For me its a little much tbh

Naxx and BRM are considered adventures. The bundle for adventures, not expansion, is $25, not $35

I have spent ~$30 and don't plan to spend anymore. As a student, I don't want to spend money every time there's a new expansion/adventure.

Quote from TheAnimaker jump

Quote from Mesmerizeer jump

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Is making every kind of deck accessible for everybody going to "kill" the game? You sure? People with full collection can just create new decks and experiment lot's of stuff. Not everyone wants to be the #1 Legend Player lol, I for example.

I admire your faith in players' one true goal is to have fun. 

Tempted as I am to give you the one-liner of "Yes, I am sure", I should give you a more elaborate answer. People are complaining about seeing the same deck match after match. Making every kind of deck accessible is the QUICKEST way to achieve this situation. If a pro comes out to say Patron Warrior is the strongest deck today, every single person can just dust all they have, build Patron decks, and we have a ranked filled with 99% of Patron Warriors. (The 1% is the new players without any dust) And then suddenly another pro comes out and say Tempo Mage is the way to go, and every single person flock to build Tempo Mage, and we get a ranked ladder filled with 99% of Tempo Mage. That is what happens when everybody can access the internet. Information spreads faster than a wildfire. 

And don't even raise the argument that players will play with "fun" decks and so there will be diversity. No they don't. They will look for the faster route to get the rewards, being it gold or rank or someone's panties. Sorry I mean pastries, pastries. MMO players are predictable like sun rise. 

This is a game mechanic by design, and it is not limited to Hearthstone. All games will force you to make some choices, and if you are to alter your choices, you will have to pay a price. Be it in-game gold, or play-time, or something else. This mechanic is to create diversity, and bond the players with the choices they made. Let me give you an example. 

In a well-known MMORPG called World of Warcraft, there is a class called "Hunter". This hunter class is known to be the only class that can tame animals in the wild to serve as a companion. However, if you choose to tame an animal, you will have to raise their bond value with you (I don't remember the term anymore), in order for the companion to do full damage. What you gotta do here is to keep the companion fed, and enter combat with it. It takes some time and a little bit of work to get the bond value up. At that time, hunters are more likely to stick with their companions, even if their companions are a little bit inferior compared to another wild animal. 

One day, the f**king stupid a**hole developer decided to do away with the system, saying "HEY! you can choose whatever pets you want! Isn't that GREAT?!!!". The bond value design is gone. So hunters can literally go without a single pet, go to a spot, just tame whatever pet they came across, and start killing stuff. These companions are no longer bonded to their masters, they are just tools to be thrown away the second a next wild animal that is 0.1% better than them occurs. Worse, when people are whining "OMG I need to change my companion every single day, do something Blizzard!!!!!"  they finally made the decision to homogenize every single companion so that they do the same damage, gives you the same buff in different names. It destroyed the pet system. It becomes nothing more than a damage-over-time spell. You do not cherish the companion that it once was.

I hope this gives you a picture of how horrible it can be if what you proposed is put into practice. I sincerely hope that every single gamer can go out, learn something about game design, before they make comments that is just, so, very, WRONG.

Quote from Zooed jump

I believe that hearthstone has just reached the climax of their success, with 20,000,000 Players. Now that number is incredibly huge. INCREDIBLY HUGE. And blizzard really wants to keep this going. HS was a huge success, which needed not a lot of developing or financial support or attention. 

The Problem: The issue i see is that, with 4 expansions out so far, it is becoming very difficult for newcomers who discovered the game through its popularity to settle in well (the problem, being their main resource=gold), especially because most of them will be casual players, at max hour or 2 a day. They dont have the gold go farther thank rank 10 at best, with the basic cards they get in the beginning, as they hit a wall of face hunter, Patron, handlock, zoo, oil rogue etc... And to have those cards, they will need to buy numerous packs, to achieve the vast amount of dust and cards they need. Remember, they do start from 0. And if they try to farm or grind out the gold, it gets extremely boring, very quickly, rather than being a creative card game, where YOU choose the different combinations of cards and synergies to try and climb the ladder, they see it as a grind, and so did i for many months. I know, blizzard wants people to use real money, to buy the packs, and expansions, but for new players, who are still exploring the game, are not entirely sure they want to spend money in the game yet (tbh, the prices on the packs is outrageous) and they either will not be willing to, or cant afford to do so. They will keep feeling unsure, about the game, as the grind for gold, wont feel good, and then they will just simply stop playing, as it is unenjoyable. (idk whether thats even a word, but you get the idea). The game is simply, the learning curve is not that steep, but the grinding for gold, is a pain in the ass for newcomers. Time for a few numbers.

Curse of Naxxramas: This was the first expansion, when naxx was released, everyone was hyped and stuff. Five winged adventure. 
Alot of really good cards that everyone wants. Mad Scientist, Sludge Belcher etc... You cant craft these cards. You need to purchase the corresponding 700 GOLD wing, or spend 7 bucks. 5 wings, each 700 thats, 3500 Gold. 35 US Dollars. Thats alot.

GVG: This expansion, instead of bringing an adventure, brought a new type of pack, expert pack, GVG packs. Now how many packs do you need to get the most of the cards you will need for the cards you want. We can safely assume, that with the 50-40 card packs, you should get a few cards you would want, and alot of dust , which you could use to craft the ones you didnt get. But, still, have a look at one of the top tier decks, Handlock, Control Warrior. Ouch. 12K dust costs. Ok, lets ignore those decks for now. You spend 5000 Gold. Thats still alot of gold.

Blackrock mountain: Quick Shot Flamewaker etc etc. You want them? 5 wings, 700 each. 3500 More gold plz.
This is where it sort of started becoming really stupid for newer players to get the cards they needed. 

The Grand Tournament:  The latest expansion, introduced 132 cards, although only a few of them are the 'good' ones. At this point, the meta has become so saturated, with decks like oil, face etc, the expansion, will 'refresh' the meta with the new cards, as almost all the players will begin to experiment with the cards and their decks, again we will just assume that 50 packs will be reasonable for a new player, even though you will probably need more, for your experimental needs, and legendarys. The legendarys are always an issue, Extremely rare, and very expensive to craft. And you need multiple of them in a deck. 50 packs = 5000 Gold. ;(((

TOTAL CHECKOUT = 17,000 GOLD.

How long will it take to get that much? well good question. 
Average Daily quest rewards about 50 Gold (AVERAGE). 
3 WINS gives you 10 gold. Lets say you get 6 wins in a day (that about an hour of play, including losses) = 20 Gold

EVERYDAY 70 GOLD
242 DAYS 

EVEN IF YOU GET 100 GOLD, THATS 12 WINS A DAY 
170 DAYS             OVER 5 MONTHS OF CONSISTENT GAMEPLAY OF 2 HOURS EVERYDAY

 

Sure don't need ALL of the cards to have fun, but remember, this type of card game, can get boring really quickly. a week of playing a deck WILL get you bored. Hearthstone is a game that constantly needs changing to keep it fun, thats why tavern brawl was introduced, but we are talking about constructed play. And remember, not everyone likes playing cheap face decks ;/

Sure their are like couple of packs for new players or like hundred gold or a free arena, but a new player will not really get 6 wins in arena, and have enough gold to go again. not enough of a push.

The solution:  I do have an idea as to how we can make the beginning more fun and friendly to newcomers. Make Curse of Naxxaramas Free. New players will enjoy the PVE, get the cards they need, have fun, and will be encouraged to keep playing, and will also be encouraged to buy BRM aswell.

 

You might not find my solution well,or you might not even think the problem is a problem at all. But that was my opinion. it was buggin me for quite a while, and i had let it off my chest. please dont get pissed at me, hunt me down and kill me ;(. this is my opinion. please share to me what you think.

SORRY IT WAS A LONG POST HERE IS YOUR POTATO:

 

 

You need to add that. When you start palying as a newbie you have only basic cards right ? and matchmaking is so brutal.Opponets have full decks or some budget decks. But you cant even make budget decks without naxx. My brother wants to play HS but he cant win games with those cards. This is why newbies cant get into game. So I aggre with you about free pve thing.

The vote is biased. Yeah, it costs too much. Way too much. But it's not stupid if you can afford it.

As a constructed-control player you have no way but to pay for the cards. You can make decent budget face decks or tempo decks, but that's all. And even for those you need to grind hard.

This game is by no means f2p for new players.

Quote from DMaster2 jump

Quote from FranzLimit jump

We get 51,3 gold/quest if we take every quest without recycling (since we do that, the average gold/quest is slightly higher [around 60])
+ we get 1pack/week for playing the brawl -> This are another 14,3gold/day
If you win around 50% of the games (which should be usual) you need around 6 games/day to reach the 100 gold mark.
(So 170 days is more appropriate than the 242 days)

average 60 gold with quests with re-rolling? In what world my friend? Because i re-roll the 40 gold quests (the most common you get) and way too often i yet again get a 40 gold quest.

Are you really sure all quests have the same chance of happening? Because i'm pretty sure the 40 gold quests spawn far too often to be completly random.

Since we have new quests too, there is a 41,67% chance to get one of the 40gold quests ->58,33% for a better pack (at least 50gold)
Well the chance for 60gold+ is only 33,33%. That's probably why you experience the bad luck.

If you combine the chance of getting the good quest in the first place with chance of getting it on your second try you have those results:
If you reroll every 40gold quest the chance for 50gold+ are 82,64%    
If you reroll every 40 gold quest the chance for 60gold+ are 43,56%
If you reroll every 40 gold quest the chance for 100gold are 10,8%

This means you get roughly 57gold/quest. Since you don't have to do your 40gold quest immideately and can reroll it on another day again (if you were lucky enough to get a better quest on the second day) you can improve your chance for better quests even more. So you get roughly 60 gold/quest in this world my friend.

Sure, make Naxxramas free and throw my hundreds hours of grinding gold for it in a dumpster. Fair enough.

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Quote from FranzLimit jump

Since we have new quests too, there is a 41,67% chance to get one of the 40gold quests ->58,33% for a better pack (at least 50gold)
Well the chance for 60gold+ is only 33,33%. That's probably why you experience the bad luck.

If you combine the chance of getting the good quest in the first place with chance of getting it on your second try you have those results:
If you reroll every 40gold quest the chance for 50gold+ are 82,64%    
If you reroll every 40 gold quest the chance for 60gold+ are 43,56%
If you reroll every 40 gold quest the chance for 100gold are 10,8%

This means you get roughly 57gold/quest. Since you don't have to do your 40gold quest immideately and can reroll it on another day again (if you were lucky enough to get a better quest on the second day) you can improve your chance for better quests even more. So you get roughly 60 gold/quest in this world my friend.

As a f2p player i always re-roll all the 40 gold quests and "save" them to re-roll them another day. Well let me tell you, i play this game since 1 years and half ago and i've yet to see a quest log full of quests without a single 40 gold quest. One way or another you'll get those and there is nothing you can do about it. I've also seen stream of 40 gold quests (like between new quests and re-roll i went on a 6-40-gold-quests-straight). So i don't understand in what way you can average almost 60 gold per day with quests only.

I also play roughly over a year now. The chances are better now because they introduced 10 new quests in the last patch. Before that it was much worse with the 40gold quests.

A new console game costs ~$60 and you'll be lucky if you get 2 weeks of playtime out of it. Of course there is the occasional exception, like Skyrim, where you can play for hundreds upon hundreds of hours... but those games are pretty rare.

I've been playing Hearthstone for about 8 months and have spent around $120. 

I feel I've gotten great value out of my $120 with how much I've enjoyed playing it for this long. To keep me interested for the similar time, I would have had to spend at least $1000 on console games. In that essence... HS is very inexpensive.

No one is forcing you to pay any amount of $. If you enjoy playing HS, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with putting money into it. If you do spend money, then proceed to complain about it being too expensive... maybe it's not the game for you. Live within your means. Don't buy a Benz, when you can only afford a Civic.

This Card Envy stuff is getting very, very old. If it's too expensive for you... that's on you, no one else. Why would you spend more money than you feel is acceptable? 

People spend $12-$15 dollars for movie tickets. That's 2 hours of enjoyment. Again, HS is very inexpensive in comparison.

Expansions and adventures are released every 4 months. If you budget your money, it should be no problem to purchase the content without flinching. $25- $50 is so very, very cheap for an additional 4 months of enjoyable gameplay. If you aren't enjoying yourself... you should reevaluate your choice of entertainment. It is a game after all, it's supposed to be fun.

Tl;dr - If you enjoy HS, there is nothing wrong with spending some money. If you don't, no one is making you play. 

I think blizzard should give the full cards collection to new players. So then they will be happy?

midrange hunter doesn't cost any dust

Grim patron warrior doesnt cost much dust

i can go on if you like?

when i started playing almost 2 years ago I had 1 good deck, now i got every class i want. You can still only put 30 cards in your deck just like you could 2 years ago. I crafted cards back than that nobody uses right now.

it should still take everyone the same amount of trouble it took me to get all the good cards they need to play every class so whats your point really?

No you wont have every good card within a month, but nobody did that didnt spend big amounts on cards. And you can spend 50 euro's ones a year on this game right? you buy other games aswell so why not invest it into this one if you play it every day.

Interesting thing that I noticed: I don't think TGT added any additional monetary cost to the game. Since it's such a small set and so many of the cards will be worthless to many players, you can get by with just crafting specific cards and opening a few packs with gold here and there no problem. Assuming you have all the cards for the deck from the previous sets, you can make a Shaman deck by only opening/crafting 6 cards from TGT. If this trend continues for all full set releases then I'll be pretty happy about it. 

Your right about naxx and BRM nothing else. you still need to collect 30 cards if you wanna play warlock just other ones. 

I had to disenchant every card i got so i could make my Mage deck and than had to repeat that to build my first warlock.

I disenchanted every bad legendary and epic i got so i could make my control warrior deck. It took me over a year to be able to play every class with any card i wanted. And again just spend some real money on Naxx and BRM it will cost you less than a new console game. I bought both with gold btw.

I'm a f2p player, been playing since beta, made some mistakes along the way like DE'ing Grom, VanCleef etc. but I still have an okay collection - lacking some legendaries and epics from Classic and GvG, struggling with getting what I want from TGT because I can't save 100 gold if it depended on my life :D. To start playing HS now, you either have to do it purely for fun - knowing you'll have a rough time getting 3 wins out of 10 games, or spend quite a lot of cash for Naxx, BRM, at least 50-100 packs etc.

So, what I think would be a good move by Blizz:

Incorporate a system that will allow players to choose between playing full or limited collections - i.e. if you're just starting, and you have mostly cards from Classic, limit the decks to Classic only, or GvG only, or TGT, or any combination of those you want/can play. Naxx or BRM should be included in all those modes so they at least have to get the adventures. I believe this way there would be enough people playing all the modes - and newcomers wouldn't feel that overwhelmed by the quantity of cards and choices.

tl;dr: Different game modes, Classic/GvG/TGT only or something similar.

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Your right about naxx and BRM nothing else. you still need to collect 30 cards if you wanna play warlock just other ones. 

I had to disenchant every card i got so i could make my Mage deck and than had to repeat that to build my first warlock.

I disenchanted every bad legendary and epic i got so i could make my control warrior deck. It took me over a year to be able to play every class with any card i wanted. And again just spend some real money on Naxx and BRM it will cost you less than a new console game. I bought both with gold btw.

by disechanting all your epics, and non-warrior cards, you basically sacrifice other decks to forge one. sure f2p is suppose to be harder, but not a 200 day grind hard. because f2p players cannot , or dont have the dust to forge control decks, they play cheaper decks such as zoo, or 'cancer' hunter face decks, which people keep repeatedly complain about. if control decks were slightly more readily available and user friendly, the amount of 'cancer decks' would sure go down 

Quote from AUzg jump

I'm a f2p player, been playing since beta, made some mistakes along the way like DE'ing Grom, VanCleef etc. but I still have an okay collection - lacking some legendaries and epics from Classic and GvG, struggling with getting what I want from TGT because I can't save 100 gold if it depended on my life :D. To start playing HS now, you either have to do it purely for fun - knowing you'll have a rough time getting 3 wins out of 10 games, or spend quite a lot of cash for Naxx, BRM, at least 50-100 packs etc.

So, what I think would be a good move by Blizz:

Incorporate a system that will allow players to choose between playing full or limited collections - i.e. if you're just starting, and you have mostly cards from Classic, limit the decks to Classic only, or GvG only, or TGT, or any combination of those you want/can play. Naxx or BRM should be included in all those modes so they at least have to get the adventures. I believe this way there would be enough people playing all the modes - and newcomers wouldn't feel that overwhelmed by the quantity of cards and choices.

tl;dr: Different game modes, Classic/GvG/TGT only or something similar.

you've been playing since BETA, and have an 'okay' collection. imagine players that will join recently, they will be destroyed, and will lose faith in the game. with every new expansion, the grinding time will increase. thats why naxx should be made free in my opinion.

As a newer player i will say that buying the expansions sucked. but fair is fair.. I do think that after a time naxx should be free if you buy BRM.. I didn't mind buying the expansions though cause they came with fun PVE content. When it's just $50 cause new cards came out.. meh.. but they still got my money..