Nothing in TGT is going to deal with Patron Warrior. I am reserving judgement, in case somehow something ends up affecting that deck's viability more than I can currently imagine, but it seems to me that almost everything revealed is still not going to change Patron's viability as a deck. And don't chime in with "But Chillmaw!" because 1 Legendary that can boardwipe once isn't going to change anything. Not to mention if you have a board full of Patrons, drop Frothing, swing so everything else dies, swing for lethal.
The deck is still a problem, and is still going to BE a problem unless something happens. I've noticed more and more popular streamers and pro players all saying the same thing too. I'm already at the point where I quit as soon as I see Warrior on the other side of the screen, because I'm tired of working my ass off and playing perfectly and still losing to an empty board the previous turn. I really hope something changes, because at this point I'm almost ready to just swear off Hearthstone. The shady bit of adding a ton of bad cards in the new expansion isn't helping me want to keep playing either.
I'm interested in hearing others' thoughts on this though, maybe there is something I'm not considering.
Hello person from the future! Don't suppose you could give me next wednesday's lottery numbers?
Clever. Thanks for the healthy input to the conversation.
I'm just saying. Don't put your dog down before it's sick. You'll see soon enough if you're right but currently it's up in the air what the meta is going to turn into.
You mad that you don't got the skills to pilot patron or something? It is literally the highest skilled deck and obviously it should have one of the best win rates because of it. Play handlock and with TGT handlock will be even better against patron with 2 more 8/8 bodies ready to be slammed onto the board.
I agree the TGT isn't fixing the meta but for me its not whether or not patron warrior gets weaker its if the meta will actually slow down so the new cards are playable. How many cards counter SMOrc and Zoo and other fast cancer decks? Like really, none of them seem to actually accomplish what needs to be accomplished in order to slow the meta. From the artificial meta of everyone trying out new stuff just play cancer and get rank 1 day 1.
Nothing in TGT is going to deal with Patron Warrior. I am reserving judgement, in case somehow something ends up affecting that deck's viability more than I can currently imagine, but it seems to me that almost everything revealed is still not going to change Patron's viability as a deck. And don't chime in with "But Chillmaw!" because 1 Legendary that can boardwipe once isn't going to change anything. Not to mention if you have a board full of Patrons, drop Frothing, swing so everything else dies, swing for lethal.
The deck is still a problem, and is still going to BE a problem unless something happens. I've noticed more and more popular streamers and pro players all saying the same thing too. I'm already at the point where I quit as soon as I see Warrior on the other side of the screen, because I'm tired of working my ass off and playing perfectly and still losing to an empty board the previous turn. I really hope something changes, because at this point I'm almost ready to just swear off Hearthstone. The shady bit of adding a ton of bad cards in the new expansion isn't helping me want to keep playing either.
I'm interested in hearing others' thoughts on this though, maybe there is something I'm not considering.
Be happy that the deck is gaining in popularity. THAT! will be it's undoing. When the deck saturates the meta they will be forced to deal with it. In fact, you and all the people that cry about the deck would help yourselves more by playing it. Look, I hate it too, but I no longer feel it is a auto loss. Don't play board control with them, it only gives them time to draw what they need. Go face. Force them to make reactive plays. It can be neutered.
It's always impossible to have a meaningful discussion on a topic like this since we can't agree on the initial parameters in the first place. Things like "What win rate does a deck need to be a problem?" "What percentage of the meta does it need to be?" and "Is it doing something inherently broken?" are subjective, most of the time. I don't see much patron, and when I do it fizzles in about half the games. It doesn't seem broken, seems to have a high skill cap, and doesn't seem to be a disproportionately played deck. So I'd enter into this conversation and say that I don't think there's anything wrong with Patron now, and that it's unlikely to get worse with the expansion.
But the thing is, you clearly disagree with my feelings on the base questions, so it would be hard to have a meaningful discussion on the matter.
I agree the TGT isn't fixing the meta but for me its not whether or not patron warrior gets weaker its if the meta will actually slow down so the new cards are playable. How many cards counter SMOrc and Zoo and other fast cancer decks? Like really, none of them seem to actually accomplish what needs to be accomplished in order to slow the meta. From the artificial meta of everyone trying out new stuff just play cancer and get rank 1 day 1.
This is the real problem. This is how the world works. Everyone wants that slow-meta but throwing control cards at the problem isn't really going to fix it. But I feel like nerfs are just going to ruin any possibility of running aggro again. Which I know some people wouldn't mind, but I feel like that would just make some more cards unplayable as usual. So best case scenario: Everyone just stops playing aggro, and you complain about control. Worst case scenario: your fucked.
This is nothing new. We were saying the exact same thing with Miracle. "Naxx wont' stop it!." "Yes it will!" "Why doesn't blizzard do anything?" "They will." So on so on.
A year later and there's a large number of people here who have to research about Miracle Rogue to know what it was like to face the deck. It took 2 patches of counter-cards, like Loatheb and Bomb Lobber, and several nerfs to finally knock it out but it's gone now. And now people wonder about Patron.
As someone who lived through UTH hunter, Miracle Rogue, and the era of Undertaker, let me give my two cents:
Blizzard prefers to solve issues in three ways with a priority on all three. This are, in order:
1. The meta. A lot of issues are solved by the community finding counters. Card like Ragnaros and decks like mech mage and Handlock were villified but eventually solved without any need for the company to address them. This is the healthiest solution. It does take time though, about a 1-2 months after the issue crops up, so you have to sit and monitor for that time.
2. New cards. When the meta can't solve it on their own, many times it's because we don't have the cards to build natural counterdecks or the ability to tech down a particular deck. Thus you add cards to do that, either to make a new meta, or to counter tech a current meta. This can only be done about 3 times a year but the results tend to be very quick once installed. Still best to give it a month afterwards, though.
3. Card changes. When both options fail, then you get to nerfing cards. Which, of course, work when you hit the right card in the right way. It takes very little to turn a dominant deck into worthlessness (oh the folks who went "1 mana one one cardisn't a nerf! Blizzard failed to stop Miracle rogue!" then). Thing is, though, you can't nerf things quickly. People tend to be very vocal about things that happen to just them (OMG NERF INNER FIRE!) or decks that have been long solved (which is why the decks the forum screams about isn't the decks deemed top of the heap). When an issue shows, you still have to give it 1-2 months due to #1 and can't make changes right before an expansion due to #2. Thus you tend ot see nerfs come in about a month after an expansion, and NOT on the cards recently released.
If Patron needs to be nerfed, it couldn't have been within 2 months of BRM, and it couldn't have been 1 month before or after TGT. Given that it was pretty much May when the final wing was released, that rules out this entire season for nerfs. They WILL nerf right before an expansion if they feel the expansioni isn't meant to address the issue or will cause an issue (Auctioneer, Eaglehorn Bow). Otherwise, the nerfs happened outside of those delay times. If patron is to be nerfed, it'll be similar in timing.
It's always impossible to have a meaningful discussion on a topic like this since we can't agree on the initial parameters in the first place. Things like "What win rate does a deck need to be a problem?" "What percentage of the meta does it need to be?" and "Is it doing something inherently broken?" are subjective, most of the time. I don't see much patron, and when I do it fizzles in about half the games. It doesn't seem broken, seems to have a high skill cap, and doesn't seem to be a disproportionately played deck. So I'd enter into this conversation and say that I don't think there's anything wrong with Patron now, and that it's unlikely to get worse with the expansion.
But the thing is, you clearly disagree with my feelings on the base questions, so it would be hard to have a meaningful discussion on the matter.
I disagree, and so do the majority of professional players and popular streamers. It DOES have a high skill cap. That being said, it has efficient removal and board control that also draws cards simultaneously, with several very defensive cards and a defensive hero power. So essentially you play cancerous aggro or lose to it, and even cancerous aggro can't keep up. Plus, even playing perfectly can't stop 2 charging Berserkers with 20 attack each. The deck is a problem, and the majority of people outside of Blizzard have acknowledged that at this point too.
I do agree that I may be jumping the gun a bit with judging how this set is going to alter this. But I'm also so tired of playing against this deck, it's so hopeless it just feels miserable without a perfect draw half the time. I played during the days of Unleash the Hounds Hunter and Miracle Rogue, and this deck blows them out of the water in my opinion. It has no major weakness, you have to have an excellent start and they have to draw poorly for things to really go your way, outside of a few largely unplayed decks.
Plus, even playing perfectly can't stop 2 charging Berserkers with 20 attack each.
This is the one problem I have with patron as a deck, 2 solutions I've seen that seem reasonable are making frothing only gain damage from friendly minions, or making warsong only give minions charge as long as they remain at or below 3 attack
Plus, even playing perfectly can't stop 2 charging Berserkers with 20 attack each.
This is the one problem I have with patron as a deck, 2 solutions I've seen that seem reasonable are making frothing only gain damage from friendly minions, or making warsong only give minions charge as long as they remain at or below 3 attack
Quite honestly, the latter (warsong interaction) is how it SHOULD have been working all along)
Plus, even playing perfectly can't stop 2 charging Berserkers with 20 attack each.
This is the one problem I have with patron as a deck, 2 solutions I've seen that seem reasonable are making frothing only gain damage from friendly minions, or making warsong only give minions charge as long as they remain at or below 3 attack
Quite honestly, the latter (warsong interaction) is how it SHOULD have been working all along)
I think they made it the way it was to actually provide interesting possibilities of OTK-ish decks, stuff like Raging Worgen and Charge, as well as possibly frothing, though it didn't have the easy board-building that patron provides before
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So, in case everyone didn't notice....
Nothing in TGT is going to deal with Patron Warrior. I am reserving judgement, in case somehow something ends up affecting that deck's viability more than I can currently imagine, but it seems to me that almost everything revealed is still not going to change Patron's viability as a deck. And don't chime in with "But Chillmaw!" because 1 Legendary that can boardwipe once isn't going to change anything. Not to mention if you have a board full of Patrons, drop Frothing, swing so everything else dies, swing for lethal.
The deck is still a problem, and is still going to BE a problem unless something happens. I've noticed more and more popular streamers and pro players all saying the same thing too. I'm already at the point where I quit as soon as I see Warrior on the other side of the screen, because I'm tired of working my ass off and playing perfectly and still losing to an empty board the previous turn. I really hope something changes, because at this point I'm almost ready to just swear off Hearthstone. The shady bit of adding a ton of bad cards in the new expansion isn't helping me want to keep playing either.
I'm interested in hearing others' thoughts on this though, maybe there is something I'm not considering.
Greetings.
Hello person from the future! Don't suppose you could give me next wednesday's lottery numbers?
◥·̆◤TO ARMS TOTEMS!◥·̆◤
Clearly you have not considered such things as "Logic" and "Reality".
Clever. Thanks for the healthy input to the conversation.
Greetings.
Bye! o/
I'm just saying. Don't put your dog down before it's sick. You'll see soon enough if you're right but currently it's up in the air what the meta is going to turn into.
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You mad that you don't got the skills to pilot patron or something? It is literally the highest skilled deck and obviously it should have one of the best win rates because of it. Play handlock and with TGT handlock will be even better against patron with 2 more 8/8 bodies ready to be slammed onto the board.
just run Twilight Guardianx2
I agree the TGT isn't fixing the meta but for me its not whether or not patron warrior gets weaker its if the meta will actually slow down so the new cards are playable. How many cards counter SMOrc and Zoo and other fast cancer decks? Like really, none of them seem to actually accomplish what needs to be accomplished in order to slow the meta. From the artificial meta of everyone trying out new stuff just play cancer and get rank 1 day 1.
Be happy that the deck is gaining in popularity. THAT! will be it's undoing. When the deck saturates the meta they will be forced to deal with it. In fact, you and all the people that cry about the deck would help yourselves more by playing it. Look, I hate it too, but I no longer feel it is a auto loss. Don't play board control with them, it only gives them time to draw what they need. Go face. Force them to make reactive plays. It can be neutered.
You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else.
It's always impossible to have a meaningful discussion on a topic like this since we can't agree on the initial parameters in the first place. Things like "What win rate does a deck need to be a problem?" "What percentage of the meta does it need to be?" and "Is it doing something inherently broken?" are subjective, most of the time. I don't see much patron, and when I do it fizzles in about half the games. It doesn't seem broken, seems to have a high skill cap, and doesn't seem to be a disproportionately played deck. So I'd enter into this conversation and say that I don't think there's anything wrong with Patron now, and that it's unlikely to get worse with the expansion.
But the thing is, you clearly disagree with my feelings on the base questions, so it would be hard to have a meaningful discussion on the matter.
Nothing doing, traveler.
This is the real problem. This is how the world works. Everyone wants that slow-meta but throwing control cards at the problem isn't really going to fix it. But I feel like nerfs are just going to ruin any possibility of running aggro again. Which I know some people wouldn't mind, but I feel like that would just make some more cards unplayable as usual. So best case scenario: Everyone just stops playing aggro, and you complain about control. Worst case scenario: your fucked.
This Is Our Town, Scrub
Yeah, Beat It
well we never know until tgt actually comes out. Maybe meta will slow down and aggro cancer will be not 70% of ladder but like 50%?
This is nothing new. We were saying the exact same thing with Miracle. "Naxx wont' stop it!." "Yes it will!" "Why doesn't blizzard do anything?" "They will." So on so on.
A year later and there's a large number of people here who have to research about Miracle Rogue to know what it was like to face the deck. It took 2 patches of counter-cards, like Loatheb and Bomb Lobber, and several nerfs to finally knock it out but it's gone now. And now people wonder about Patron.
As someone who lived through UTH hunter, Miracle Rogue, and the era of Undertaker, let me give my two cents:
Blizzard prefers to solve issues in three ways with a priority on all three. This are, in order:
1. The meta. A lot of issues are solved by the community finding counters. Card like Ragnaros and decks like mech mage and Handlock were villified but eventually solved without any need for the company to address them. This is the healthiest solution. It does take time though, about a 1-2 months after the issue crops up, so you have to sit and monitor for that time.
2. New cards. When the meta can't solve it on their own, many times it's because we don't have the cards to build natural counterdecks or the ability to tech down a particular deck. Thus you add cards to do that, either to make a new meta, or to counter tech a current meta. This can only be done about 3 times a year but the results tend to be very quick once installed. Still best to give it a month afterwards, though.
3. Card changes. When both options fail, then you get to nerfing cards. Which, of course, work when you hit the right card in the right way. It takes very little to turn a dominant deck into worthlessness (oh the folks who went "1 mana one one cardisn't a nerf! Blizzard failed to stop Miracle rogue!" then). Thing is, though, you can't nerf things quickly. People tend to be very vocal about things that happen to just them (OMG NERF INNER FIRE!) or decks that have been long solved (which is why the decks the forum screams about isn't the decks deemed top of the heap). When an issue shows, you still have to give it 1-2 months due to #1 and can't make changes right before an expansion due to #2. Thus you tend ot see nerfs come in about a month after an expansion, and NOT on the cards recently released.
If Patron needs to be nerfed, it couldn't have been within 2 months of BRM, and it couldn't have been 1 month before or after TGT. Given that it was pretty much May when the final wing was released, that rules out this entire season for nerfs. They WILL nerf right before an expansion if they feel the expansioni isn't meant to address the issue or will cause an issue (Auctioneer, Eaglehorn Bow). Otherwise, the nerfs happened outside of those delay times. If patron is to be nerfed, it'll be similar in timing.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
i have more tools as a warrior to deal with patron
Warrior and Handlock are counters to Patron. Not too much else last I hear.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
I disagree, and so do the majority of professional players and popular streamers. It DOES have a high skill cap. That being said, it has efficient removal and board control that also draws cards simultaneously, with several very defensive cards and a defensive hero power. So essentially you play cancerous aggro or lose to it, and even cancerous aggro can't keep up. Plus, even playing perfectly can't stop 2 charging Berserkers with 20 attack each. The deck is a problem, and the majority of people outside of Blizzard have acknowledged that at this point too.
I do agree that I may be jumping the gun a bit with judging how this set is going to alter this. But I'm also so tired of playing against this deck, it's so hopeless it just feels miserable without a perfect draw half the time. I played during the days of Unleash the Hounds Hunter and Miracle Rogue, and this deck blows them out of the water in my opinion. It has no major weakness, you have to have an excellent start and they have to draw poorly for things to really go your way, outside of a few largely unplayed decks.
Greetings.
This is the one problem I have with patron as a deck, 2 solutions I've seen that seem reasonable are making frothing only gain damage from friendly minions, or making warsong only give minions charge as long as they remain at or below 3 attack
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Quite honestly, the latter (warsong interaction) is how it SHOULD have been working all along)
I think they made it the way it was to actually provide interesting possibilities of OTK-ish decks, stuff like Raging Worgen and Charge, as well as possibly frothing, though it didn't have the easy board-building that patron provides before
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