Reading through the discussion on these cards, I was surprised by just how many people were really bothered by Paladin's getting their class-specific benefits thrown into the neutral card pool. Trying to get a better idea of overall opinion on that issue.
It'll probably come to nothing. The silver hand recruits are just a 1/1 token to anyone but the paladin. The Grand Crusader is an epic in the super-competitive 6 slot and won't see much play. But as a gameplay principle, it shouldn't be that easy to copy another class's cards because it waters down the differences between classes.
3rd option - They're stupid. It's RNG-based. You either get an overpowered card like Consecrate or Truesilver or you get a useless card like Eye for an Eye.
Either way, no complaints necessary as Nefarian is already in the game.
3rd option - They're stupid. It's RNG-based. You either get an overpowered card like Consecrate or Truesilver or you get a useless card like Eye for an Eye.
Either way, no complaints necessary as Nefarian is already in the game.
I think Blizzard should either make a card like this for every class or just not have any cards like this. Personally, I prefer the latter. As Devor said, cards like this water down the differences among the classes.
Hearthstone is constantly pushing the limits on what you're allowed to play with in any given choice. So long as class cards are distinct enough and you're only allowed to pool from neutrals and from class specifics, the methods by which you could get other class's cards don't really matter. These kinds of effects, (Nefarian, Burgle, the 6 mana 5-5, spellslinger, etc) are cards which have random effects, but that randomness is controlled by the existing cards in the game. It lets them design cards with wide possibilities without making up new psuedosets for them (as is often called out as a problem in ETC and Ysera).
For this specific expansion, it makes even more sense to have a card that lets you draw from Paladin cards, as this is lore wise a pretty paladin focused thing. The idea that there would be paladins running around everywhere is pretty fitting for this expac, and as someone who adored Paladin that's exciting to me! I love seeing Paladin cards, and this doesn't effect anyone's way to use Paladin cards.
The results have high variance, but there might be decks that use them well despite it. Priest, for instance, can make great use of damage reductions, divine shields, heals, clears, weapons, etc etc etc. And it's exciting that there's a chance Tirion might slip into games more often.
The card is fun and very thematically fitting. I say let's be excited and hope it's good enough for constructed!
I have absolutely no problems with Silver Hand Regent. For Grand Crusader, on the other hand, I think it depends on if this will be symmetric, with other neutral cards providing class cards for other classes (unlikely, considering it's an epic). It's the class hero powers and class cards that make you play a certain class over another and give each class some semblance of balance, so it does seem a little unfair if Paladin is the only class that can lose that uniqueness so easily.
That said, from a game mechanics perspective, I think Grand Crusader can only be good for the game, as it acts as pseudo-draw in Paladin, can lead to some memorable plays (eg. Equality + Swipe or Tirion Fordring + Shadowflame), and isn't terribly broken because you need to spend a deck slot on this knowing it might give you Eye for an Eye, so any person willing to invest in this card probably deserves to get a satisfying win when it happens (like the feeling you get when you successfully deal 20 to the face with your Holy Wrath gimmick deck).
Disclaimer: I don't generally play Paladin as my main class.
Playing Paladin as one of my main climbers, I really have mixed feelings about this. The 6 mana spot for me is mostly sylvannas, so this could be beneficial in it's own way. I don't expect to see many other classes running this card, but I guess we will see.
Unlike Unstable Portal or Nefarian you can specifically target Paladins to include 2 of their cards in your deck - independant of the matchup. On top of simply copying their Hero Power with another neutral card, if you wish to do so.
Wether you actually want that or not in competitive play doesn't matter, cards like that ruin class identity. And I don't limit this to just Paladins, I wouldn't want other classes to turn into Lord Jaraxxus either.
i think its going to be a cycle of cards even if they dont all come out in this set, like the inspire cards we have seen like tournament medic and silver hand regent i would be suprised to see other if not all hero powers on neutral inspire minions
I get that jousting is a Paladin related theme, so it makes sense from that perspective. But in return I'd like to see Paladins get some really good jousting related cards. As it stands now, it feels kind of lopsided with Paladin's getting their stuff copied and other classes not.
On the other hand, it's somewhat good for Paladin that Silver Hand Regent gives class-like synergy without taking one of our card slots for the expansion. Hopefully the extra slot will be used to give Paladin something really nice.
Disclaimer: I do play Paladin as one of my main classes, though not my only one.
Unlike Unstable Portal or Nefarian you can specifically target Paladins to include 2 of their cards in your deck - independant of the matchup. On top of simply copying their Hero Power with another neutral card, if you wish to do so.
Wether you actually want that or not in competitive play doesn't matter, cards like that ruin class identity. And I don't limit this to just Paladins, I wouldn't want other classes to turn into Lord Jaraxxus either.
Someone needs to tell that to Ben Brode. I really hope this card and Silver Hand Regent see no play in constructed except in Paladin decks.
I dont understand, why Grand Crusader bothers anyone as it has an inasane amount of RNG and will probably not see any play in constructed. Blizzard will always add cards like this that have an incredible potential (getting Tirion Fordering), but will have a bad outcome most of the time. Just compare it to Sylvanas or Emperor. Can it really compete with these cards?
Reading through the discussion on these cards, I was surprised by just how many people were really bothered by Paladin's getting their class-specific benefits thrown into the neutral card pool. Trying to get a better idea of overall opinion on that issue.
It'll probably come to nothing. The silver hand recruits are just a 1/1 token to anyone but the paladin. The Grand Crusader is an epic in the super-competitive 6 slot and won't see much play. But as a gameplay principle, it shouldn't be that easy to copy another class's cards because it waters down the differences between classes.
3rd option - They're stupid. It's RNG-based. You either get an overpowered card like Consecrate or Truesilver or you get a useless card like Eye for an Eye.
Either way, no complaints necessary as Nefarian is already in the game.
http://www.twitch.tv/szsoulzek
Good point!
I think Blizzard should either make a card like this for every class or just not have any cards like this. Personally, I prefer the latter. As Devor said, cards like this water down the differences among the classes.
Hearthstone is constantly pushing the limits on what you're allowed to play with in any given choice. So long as class cards are distinct enough and you're only allowed to pool from neutrals and from class specifics, the methods by which you could get other class's cards don't really matter. These kinds of effects, (Nefarian, Burgle, the 6 mana 5-5, spellslinger, etc) are cards which have random effects, but that randomness is controlled by the existing cards in the game. It lets them design cards with wide possibilities without making up new psuedosets for them (as is often called out as a problem in ETC and Ysera).
For this specific expansion, it makes even more sense to have a card that lets you draw from Paladin cards, as this is lore wise a pretty paladin focused thing. The idea that there would be paladins running around everywhere is pretty fitting for this expac, and as someone who adored Paladin that's exciting to me! I love seeing Paladin cards, and this doesn't effect anyone's way to use Paladin cards.
The results have high variance, but there might be decks that use them well despite it. Priest, for instance, can make great use of damage reductions, divine shields, heals, clears, weapons, etc etc etc. And it's exciting that there's a chance Tirion might slip into games more often.
The card is fun and very thematically fitting. I say let's be excited and hope it's good enough for constructed!
I have absolutely no problems with Silver Hand Regent. For Grand Crusader, on the other hand, I think it depends on if this will be symmetric, with other neutral cards providing class cards for other classes (unlikely, considering it's an epic). It's the class hero powers and class cards that make you play a certain class over another and give each class some semblance of balance, so it does seem a little unfair if Paladin is the only class that can lose that uniqueness so easily.
That said, from a game mechanics perspective, I think Grand Crusader can only be good for the game, as it acts as pseudo-draw in Paladin, can lead to some memorable plays (eg. Equality + Swipe or Tirion Fordring + Shadowflame), and isn't terribly broken because you need to spend a deck slot on this knowing it might give you Eye for an Eye, so any person willing to invest in this card probably deserves to get a satisfying win when it happens (like the feeling you get when you successfully deal 20 to the face with your Holy Wrath gimmick deck).
Disclaimer: I don't generally play Paladin as my main class.
Apparently, Hearthpwn won't save your signature if it's empty.
The thing that bothers me the most is the fact that we've seen more reveals of neutral cards with Paladin abilities than actual Paladin cards.
For all we know, Pally is either getting great cards or the short end of every stick.
Playing Paladin as one of my main climbers, I really have mixed feelings about this. The 6 mana spot for me is mostly sylvannas, so this could be beneficial in it's own way. I don't expect to see many other classes running this card, but I guess we will see.
I'll take option 4(someone already mentioned a option 3 so just following that) I don't care either way on it.
Awful.
Unlike Unstable Portal or Nefarian you can specifically target Paladins to include 2 of their cards in your deck - independant of the matchup. On top of simply copying their Hero Power with another neutral card, if you wish to do so.
Wether you actually want that or not in competitive play doesn't matter, cards like that ruin class identity. And I don't limit this to just Paladins, I wouldn't want other classes to turn into Lord Jaraxxus either.
frankly i would vote for "not effective enough to hurt or help"
ehhh im in between I kinda just wish they couldn't get legendaries welll basically tirion lol, but overall its fine.
Arena > all
i think its going to be a cycle of cards even if they dont all come out in this set, like the inspire cards we have seen like tournament medic and silver hand regent i would be suprised to see other if not all hero powers on neutral inspire minions
I get that jousting is a Paladin related theme, so it makes sense from that perspective. But in return I'd like to see Paladins get some really good jousting related cards. As it stands now, it feels kind of lopsided with Paladin's getting their stuff copied and other classes not.
On the other hand, it's somewhat good for Paladin that Silver Hand Regent gives class-like synergy without taking one of our card slots for the expansion. Hopefully the extra slot will be used to give Paladin something really nice.
Disclaimer: I do play Paladin as one of my main classes, though not my only one.
Someone needs to tell that to Ben Brode. I really hope this card and Silver Hand Regent see no play in constructed except in Paladin decks.
Awful. I don't even play Paladin; in fact I play Control Warrior, so I hate them. But this just feels really bad.
Hopefully these cards only see play in paladin and it'll be like Paladin just got 2 extra class cards.
I dont understand, why Grand Crusader bothers anyone as it has an inasane amount of RNG and will probably not see any play in constructed. Blizzard will always add cards like this that have an incredible potential (getting Tirion Fordering), but will have a bad outcome most of the time. Just compare it to Sylvanas or Emperor. Can it really compete with these cards?
''With great power comes great electricity bill.''
''I am Malganis. I am a TURTLE!''
Best card: Malygos
we havent seen all the cards yet, there may be 9 of these cards, one per class.
[img]http://www.hearthcards.net/cards/1476cd26.jpg[/img]