To what degree is Hearthstone designed to support high level tournament play? The existence of cards like Nozdormu makes me think that the game might not be designed to be able to support organized competitive play, as it would reward players based on how quickly they can click a mouse. This isn't something that you usually want to encourage in a competitive card game. I understand that Nozdormu has been banned from the cockatrice tournaments, which are, as far as I know, unofficial. I guess I'm wondering if:
A) Is this game meant to have competitive tournaments? Or, will Blizzard be sponsoring competitive tournaments (they'll exist regardless, but if the tournaments are sponsored they'd be likely to be better organized/run)?
I think we'll definitely see an official competitive scene at some point. The team has expressed multiple times that the community will in large part drive the direction of the game, so it's just a question of making it known and it'll come with time.
As far as Nozdormu is concerned, I'm fairly sure its mechanic will get changed (or the card removed entirely). There have been hints at an asynchronous play method (take a turn, wait an unspecified amount of time for the other person to take a turn, etc.), and I don't think they'd want to create any cards that would be usable only in a subset of their game.
The only reason Nozdormu is banned is cockatrice games requires everrything done manually therefore take at least 3 times as long per game. But its not a fixed number sometimes it's 5 times longer sometimes if both sides know how to play on cockatrice no time is lost. So it's rather wierd if you tired to make nozdurmu on cockatrice. How long do you wait? How do you wait, does someone count to 15 while opponents manually tries to apply his buff before attacking let alone strategising.
I'm sure Nozdormu will not be baned one there are hearthstone games with hearrthstone engines.
I expect they will have esports support. It is too big of an area now not to have it for a game. Plus, it would be the most widely accessible CCG in terms of spectating because of its simpler rule set and graphics. I also expect Blizzard will leverage the battle net backbone for arranged matches, friends lists etc. The main issue I would see is if the game ends up having region based servers. I hope they can find a way around this, but the legal implications with a micro transaction system and latency could make it tough.
My point in a competitive strategy game, effects such as Nozdormu's are generally undesirable as they allow real-life factors to get in the way of gameplay. Magic had a few cards that involved manual dexterity early in its history, and they were all banned because they made the game uneven. If the rest of the game cared about dexterity/how fast you can click a mouse, then his design would make more sense. Having only one card (or even a small subset of cards) that care about physical capabilities (and the speed of your computer) just seems questionable if you want to make the game as competitive as possible. For casual games on the other hand (such as an unranked game between two friends) I don't see a problem with him.
I don't really see a prolem with Nozdormu. From the moment you pass your prewious turn, you should think about what moves can you do in the next turn. I think for this reason we won't see it in competitive. In pubs, it's more lethal because casual players think more.
Surely you play is going to be mostly based upon what your opponent has just done unless you have some winning combo in your hand, or a clear choice.
Perhaps one thing plays could do it to always keep at the back of their minds what they would do if a Noz did come into play. You wont have much of a warning when it happens as I presume the opponent will pass the turn quickly after playing him for maximum effect.
Regardless what my opponent plays, I can see what I have in hand, and make plans what to do next turn. If x happens then this, if y happens then this. Yes, ofc. you draw one more card, and your opponent plays cards, but planning out possibilities you shorten your thinking time. Same thing if you played a lot with your deck. You know what works, what doesn't and making combos becomes faster.
Certain decks, such as rogue combo, simply take longer than 15 seconds to take their turns. Having a hate card for those decks in such an artificial way that rewards mouse click speed (can you make 10 specific clicks in 15 seconds?) seems very anticompetitive. I'm not saying I expect him to be competitively viable even if he does end up legal, but I imagine that his main use will be to troll people. He just seems really poorly thought out from a competition angle.
Nozdormu seems just fine to me. It is an exciting pace increase endgame card. Just a FYI, the endgame (mana-cap) of HS is very intense. I can't wait to abuse Noz, as it will go hand in hand with my speed-focused playstyle. :p
As was already mentioned, the best counter, is to think ahead. Thinking and planning ahead is a vital skill in CCG/TCG. At competitive levels, Nozdormu will probably need to be used along with "curve-ball" like strategies, that force the opponent to quickly re-think their strategy, and thus potentially make mistakes.
It's for the reasons stated above, that this card will add some welcome "spice" to the game ;)
I wonder if they will have a pause feature in hearthstone. If they don't people won't feel comfortable glued to the screen when their phone rings or door's knocked; but if they do give pause I'm sure people will abuse it to defeat the purpose of Nozdormu.
I would be incredible surprised if they introduce pause feature. I'm pretty sure there is no chance for that. Most of people will be using it as much as it would be possible if needs - abusing is sure thing in this case.
I agree with the suggestion of limiting the number of cards played per turn as Nozdormu's ability. Also, I am kinda worried about the 90 second per turn time limit, as there will doubtless be combo decks that are negatively impacted by it if they don't exist already. I would much rather see a chess clock type timer (you have x time for ALL your turns) with maybe time added every x turns. This would allow turns that involve too many mouseclicks to happen in under 90 seconds without becoming an exercise in dexterity.
Pausing against AI or friends seems ok, but pausing against anonymous random opponents that you can't chat with sounds terrible. Waiting 90 seconds for an AFK opponent's turn to expire already sounds bad enough.
I agree with the suggestion of limiting the number of cards played per turn as Nozdormu's ability. Also, I am kinda worried about the 90 second per turn time limit, as there will doubtless be combo decks that are negatively impacted by it if they don't exist already. I would much rather see a chess clock type timer (you have x time for ALL your turns) with maybe time added every x turns. This would allow turns that involve too many mouseclicks to happen in under 90 seconds without becoming an exercise in dexterity.
90 seconds is quite a lot of time. Even if you think about your plan for half a minute, then make a move (playing cards, using HP or attacking) every 3 sec with animations and all, you can still make 20 moves.
Just one more thought regarding Nozdormu:, if you can't play token decks because everyone plays with aoe removal, you can't complain. If Nozdormu is the meta then play with decks that aren't fazed by it.
The difference is that for the long turn decks, Nozdormu wouldn't impact everyone. Some players would be able to click quickly enough to get through their turn anyway. It would be allowing IRL factors like physical dexterity and internet connection to influence a match and imo this is not a good thing. If the object of Nozdormu is to limit the number of cards played per turn, just have it do that. Other card games have tried cards that affect or are affected by things outside the game (Chaos Orb and the ante cards in MtG for example) and they invariably end up banned in competitive play.
I can't wait for some official tournaments. Hearthstone is a game that seems like just as fun to watch as it is to play. As far as Noz is concerned, he's going to be in every single one of my decks, simply because I can't stand 90 seconds being the turn limit. Would like to see that cut in half.
I think that when the game gets preened for e-sport competition, Nozdormu will be removed hands-down. It's really as simple as the fact that there will be players who have physical disabilities out there who will be severely disadvantaged with such a card. I mean, can you honestly pose a counter argument for that? Nozdormu will simply not be allowed or will be altered.
Additionally, the actual GUI of the Hearthstone client would disadvantage certain players based on how many tokens they need to spawn, or how many spells they need to cast. Go look at the animation for Fireball on one of the Fireside duels, it takes like 3 solid seconds. You can also check out the fireside duel where he was against a paladin who had Sword of Justice out. When that particular player played his Leeroy Jenkins, giving his paladin opponent two Whelps, the entire process of those Whelps spawning and the Sword of Justice buffing them and losing durability at the same time took another 3 seconds.
Bottom line, Nozdormu will not be in competitive play as-is for reasons that seem really obvious to me.
First: having a brain to make good decks is and IRL factor too. Should we simplify the game so mentally challenged people can win as well? I know we already have an automatic deckbuilder, but tournament level play requires more complex decks. Second (as said before): If Nozdormu is the meta, make decks that are unaffected by it, or just put in silence cards and/or good removals in your deck. It's a counter card, like Wild Pyromancer for tokens. Third: if the card does become an issue, then Blizz will just change the card. It's an online game, so changing a card on the fly is possible, as it doesn't require reprinting. For all we know even the new, unreleased developers build might already have it changed, or it might get changed during the beta.
For all these reasons I doubt it will have a permanent ban on it.
To what degree is Hearthstone designed to support high level tournament play? The existence of cards like Nozdormu makes me think that the game might not be designed to be able to support organized competitive play, as it would reward players based on how quickly they can click a mouse. This isn't something that you usually want to encourage in a competitive card game. I understand that Nozdormu has been banned from the cockatrice tournaments, which are, as far as I know, unofficial. I guess I'm wondering if:
A) Is this game meant to have competitive tournaments? Or, will Blizzard be sponsoring competitive tournaments (they'll exist regardless, but if the tournaments are sponsored they'd be likely to be better organized/run)?
B) Will Nozdormu be legal in those tournaments?
I think we'll definitely see an official competitive scene at some point. The team has expressed multiple times that the community will in large part drive the direction of the game, so it's just a question of making it known and it'll come with time.
As far as Nozdormu is concerned, I'm fairly sure its mechanic will get changed (or the card removed entirely). There have been hints at an asynchronous play method (take a turn, wait an unspecified amount of time for the other person to take a turn, etc.), and I don't think they'd want to create any cards that would be usable only in a subset of their game.
The only reason Nozdormu is banned is cockatrice games requires everrything done manually therefore take at least 3 times as long per game. But its not a fixed number sometimes it's 5 times longer sometimes if both sides know how to play on cockatrice no time is lost. So it's rather wierd if you tired to make nozdurmu on cockatrice. How long do you wait? How do you wait, does someone count to 15 while opponents manually tries to apply his buff before attacking let alone strategising.
I'm sure Nozdormu will not be baned one there are hearthstone games with hearrthstone engines.
Let me change your mind
I expect they will have esports support. It is too big of an area now not to have it for a game. Plus, it would be the most widely accessible CCG in terms of spectating because of its simpler rule set and graphics. I also expect Blizzard will leverage the battle net backbone for arranged matches, friends lists etc. The main issue I would see is if the game ends up having region based servers. I hope they can find a way around this, but the legal implications with a micro transaction system and latency could make it tough.
My point in a competitive strategy game, effects such as Nozdormu's are generally undesirable as they allow real-life factors to get in the way of gameplay. Magic had a few cards that involved manual dexterity early in its history, and they were all banned because they made the game uneven. If the rest of the game cared about dexterity/how fast you can click a mouse, then his design would make more sense. Having only one card (or even a small subset of cards) that care about physical capabilities (and the speed of your computer) just seems questionable if you want to make the game as competitive as possible. For casual games on the other hand (such as an unranked game between two friends) I don't see a problem with him.
I don't really see a prolem with Nozdormu. From the moment you pass your prewious turn, you should think about what moves can you do in the next turn. I think for this reason we won't see it in competitive. In pubs, it's more lethal because casual players think more.
Surely you play is going to be mostly based upon what your opponent has just done unless you have some winning combo in your hand, or a clear choice.
Perhaps one thing plays could do it to always keep at the back of their minds what they would do if a Noz did come into play. You wont have much of a warning when it happens as I presume the opponent will pass the turn quickly after playing him for maximum effect.
Regardless what my opponent plays, I can see what I have in hand, and make plans what to do next turn. If x happens then this, if y happens then this. Yes, ofc. you draw one more card, and your opponent plays cards, but planning out possibilities you shorten your thinking time. Same thing if you played a lot with your deck. You know what works, what doesn't and making combos becomes faster.
Certain decks, such as rogue combo, simply take longer than 15 seconds to take their turns. Having a hate card for those decks in such an artificial way that rewards mouse click speed (can you make 10 specific clicks in 15 seconds?) seems very anticompetitive. I'm not saying I expect him to be competitively viable even if he does end up legal, but I imagine that his main use will be to troll people. He just seems really poorly thought out from a competition angle.
I think the best way to change Nozdormu (if there was even a need to) would be to limit the amount of cards played per turn intead of the time.
Let me change your mind
Nozdormu seems just fine to me. It is an exciting pace increase endgame card. Just a FYI, the endgame (mana-cap) of HS is very intense. I can't wait to abuse Noz, as it will go hand in hand with my speed-focused playstyle. :p
As was already mentioned, the best counter, is to think ahead. Thinking and planning ahead is a vital skill in CCG/TCG. At competitive levels, Nozdormu will probably need to be used along with "curve-ball" like strategies, that force the opponent to quickly re-think their strategy, and thus potentially make mistakes.
It's for the reasons stated above, that this card will add some welcome "spice" to the game ;)
I wonder if they will have a pause feature in hearthstone. If they don't people won't feel comfortable glued to the screen when their phone rings or door's knocked; but if they do give pause I'm sure people will abuse it to defeat the purpose of Nozdormu.
Let me change your mind
I would be incredible surprised if they introduce pause feature. I'm pretty sure there is no chance for that. Most of people will be using it as much as it would be possible if needs - abusing is sure thing in this case.
I agree with the suggestion of limiting the number of cards played per turn as Nozdormu's ability. Also, I am kinda worried about the 90 second per turn time limit, as there will doubtless be combo decks that are negatively impacted by it if they don't exist already. I would much rather see a chess clock type timer (you have x time for ALL your turns) with maybe time added every x turns. This would allow turns that involve too many mouseclicks to happen in under 90 seconds without becoming an exercise in dexterity.
Pausing against AI or friends seems ok, but pausing against anonymous random opponents that you can't chat with sounds terrible. Waiting 90 seconds for an AFK opponent's turn to expire already sounds bad enough.
90 seconds is quite a lot of time. Even if you think about your plan for half a minute, then make a move (playing cards, using HP or attacking) every 3 sec with animations and all, you can still make 20 moves.
Just one more thought regarding Nozdormu:, if you can't play token decks because everyone plays with aoe removal, you can't complain. If Nozdormu is the meta then play with decks that aren't fazed by it.
The difference is that for the long turn decks, Nozdormu wouldn't impact everyone. Some players would be able to click quickly enough to get through their turn anyway. It would be allowing IRL factors like physical dexterity and internet connection to influence a match and imo this is not a good thing. If the object of Nozdormu is to limit the number of cards played per turn, just have it do that. Other card games have tried cards that affect or are affected by things outside the game (Chaos Orb and the ante cards in MtG for example) and they invariably end up banned in competitive play.
I can't wait for some official tournaments. Hearthstone is a game that seems like just as fun to watch as it is to play. As far as Noz is concerned, he's going to be in every single one of my decks, simply because I can't stand 90 seconds being the turn limit. Would like to see that cut in half.
I think that when the game gets preened for e-sport competition, Nozdormu will be removed hands-down. It's really as simple as the fact that there will be players who have physical disabilities out there who will be severely disadvantaged with such a card. I mean, can you honestly pose a counter argument for that? Nozdormu will simply not be allowed or will be altered.
Additionally, the actual GUI of the Hearthstone client would disadvantage certain players based on how many tokens they need to spawn, or how many spells they need to cast. Go look at the animation for Fireball on one of the Fireside duels, it takes like 3 solid seconds. You can also check out the fireside duel where he was against a paladin who had Sword of Justice out. When that particular player played his Leeroy Jenkins, giving his paladin opponent two Whelps, the entire process of those Whelps spawning and the Sword of Justice buffing them and losing durability at the same time took another 3 seconds.
Bottom line, Nozdormu will not be in competitive play as-is for reasons that seem really obvious to me.
First: having a brain to make good decks is and IRL factor too. Should we simplify the game so mentally challenged people can win as well? I know we already have an automatic deckbuilder, but tournament level play requires more complex decks.
Second (as said before): If Nozdormu is the meta, make decks that are unaffected by it, or just put in silence cards and/or good removals in your deck. It's a counter card, like Wild Pyromancer for tokens.
Third: if the card does become an issue, then Blizz will just change the card. It's an online game, so changing a card on the fly is possible, as it doesn't require reprinting. For all we know even the new, unreleased developers build might already have it changed, or it might get changed during the beta.
For all these reasons I doubt it will have a permanent ban on it.