I know this probably sounds dumb, but is it really okay that a mage can go turn 8 antonidas + stealth, turn 9 fireball + fireball + frostbolt, turn 10 fireball + fireball and then maybe even one more fireball on turn 11 for like 33 damage?
It's okay that mech mage has a kinda strong early game. You can build around that. Not every class has a way to deal with a stealthed Antonidas though. What is a druid supposed to do about that? The closest thing to dealing with Antonidas for that class is Sylvanas + 2 x wrath on sylvanas to steal him and when's that ever gonna happen?
Besides, the stealth spare part is honestly almsot always exactly as good and used for exactly the same purpose as Conceal once was in Miracle. You stealth your Auctioneer for 1 Mana, you stealth your Antonidas for 1 mana. Seems fair? Well no. It's a spare part so it shouldn't be worth as much as a whole card that actually takes up a slot. Yes, I know conceal gives all friendly minions stealth, but it was never used in that way anyway so the value of the spare part is exactly the same as conceal's which is a class specific card.
Some might laugh at me, but this is really the one problem I see with mech mage. Yeah, I could put more healing into my decks, but the truth is that I'm always going to take damage against mech mage in the early game and the damage of antonidas + stealth all in all is 24 if they just go 4 x fireball, which is just too much to try to outheal when their early game already puts you at like 15 health. And that's not even accounting for the other 2 x fireballs and 2 x frostbolts which are another 18 damage.
I feel that the real problem with mech mage is the goblin blastmage. Rarely if ever have the mech mages ive faced had to play Antonidas. Its really all over by turn 4 anyways when the blastmage hits the board.
Am i the only one who refuse to play this shit cause i'd feel dirty playing it ?
I can usually win the board over and still have enough health left to survive 2 x fireballs, but there's just nothing I can possibly do about stealth + antonidas and that's honestly pretty bs.
Blastmage was never really a problem for me, because he's easy enough to handle as long as your minions aren't really close to dead and even then there are still swipe, bladeflurry, truesilver, etc. which deal with him pretty well while also addressing other threats.
Also yeah, I very rarely play mech mage myself, because I don't wanna support this kind of shit.
The problem isn't the Goblin Blastmage, it's slow control decks that can't clear mechs from the board by turn 4. I've played against a number of people who realize this and take extra steps to keep mechs off the board, even making seemingly bad trades. The Blastmage just sits in my hand until I finally throw it down late game for no battlecry after the deck is out of gas. Of course there is the other type of opponent who sits there with 8 cards in hand staring at 3 mechs on my board like a bump on a log doing nothing - they get blasted and I suppose come here and make QQ threads. As far as the stealth goes, Antonidas in these decks is a safety valve and not the win condition and getting the stealth part as opposed to some other part makes him an even bigger crapshoot.
Druid has 4 mana seeds besides Sylvanas double wrath to say the least.. Stealth + antonydus is strong but too unreliable to call it op winning condition. Druid has innervates which can bring the same advantage as other combos. You played a game and lost to that combo. Now you come here. You wasted everyones time, especialy your own.
Well considering you just assumed the mage top decked the perfect turn 8 card with the right spare part already in hand. As otherwise the mage was holding on to a dead card for many turns and is probably not as far ahead as you are assuming. I will also assume you have the perfect cards in hand and answer by saying you should double innervate double savage combo and pound that mages face in for 22+ dmg likely winning you the game for wasting an entire turn 8 doing nothing but set up a lethal 2 turns from current...
I am not a huge fan of mech mage and believe the deck to be in a way anti fun even though not really unfair but if you think its bad you lose in a very specific scenario its only fair if I set up a very specific scenario where you win instead. You also set up your own win condition where you stole antonidas but I like mine more =)
Basically the spare part is not broken because its only super powerful in 1 condition and if that condition is not met its not amazing and even when it is met its not like the game is an instant loss unless you have nothing you can do that turn anyway in which case its hard to make the argument you should have won anyway.
The spare parts are not created equal, and I do agree it is a problem. Stealth, freezing, reversing switch and time rewinder are much better than +1 attack and +1 health (taunt is somewhere in between). The tempo loss from the freezing spare part can be devastating, and is similar to the same problem OP spoke of except with Ice Lance. The spare parts are considered "minor effects," but at least half of them laugh in the face of that description.
Lol when u see people sitting with 8 cards in hand Not dealing with ur board it means that they havent drawn the stuff to deal with it. They're not conserving resources against aggro.
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Stealth + Antonidas isn't the win condition, nor is it consistent (it's hard to hold onto such a good spare part just for the hopes of dropping him). The issue lies in taking care of seemingly small minions that are too strong to be ignored in reality. Control usually can't respond fast enough or have to trade unfavorably, which is why it's so infuriating to play against. Mid-range and aggro can usually handle this pretty well since they have a heavier focus on better trades and stronger early-mid game plays.
You played a game and lost to that combo. Now you come here. You wasted everyones time, especialy your own.
You clicked on the thread, bro. Not my fault. Also this isn't the first time this kind of combo has happened obviously. Also I would not call discussing possible design issues a waste of time and if you do I don't understand why you are even registered here.
Well considering you just assumed the mage top decked the perfect turn 8 card with the right spare part already in hand. As otherwise the mage was holding on to a dead card for many turns and is probably not as far ahead as you are assuming. I will also assume you have the perfect cards in hand and answer by saying you should double innervate double savage combo and pound that mages face in for 22+ dmg likely winning you the game for wasting an entire turn 8 doing nothing but set up a lethal 2 turns from current...
I would have combo'd him if I was running combo. The thing is that taunt/ramp druid does better against mech mage usually does better than combo druid unless shit like this happens.
You didn't suggest any design change. You are only saying "i'm mad at this, do you agree?" and some people say they do and some don't. This thread is useless, you won't benefit from it anyhow.
Its not an OP combo because you need simply luck to get one [card]Finicky Cloakfield[/card]. It is similar to call a summoned Doomsayer out of a Piloted Shredder OP. No it isn't, it is simply luck. Nontheless, the way i deal with the Antonidas-situation is with Loatheb.
...but the stealth spare part is?
I know this probably sounds dumb, but is it really okay that a mage can go turn 8 antonidas + stealth, turn 9 fireball + fireball + frostbolt, turn 10 fireball + fireball and then maybe even one more fireball on turn 11 for like 33 damage?
It's okay that mech mage has a kinda strong early game. You can build around that. Not every class has a way to deal with a stealthed Antonidas though. What is a druid supposed to do about that? The closest thing to dealing with Antonidas for that class is Sylvanas + 2 x wrath on sylvanas to steal him and when's that ever gonna happen?
Besides, the stealth spare part is honestly almsot always exactly as good and used for exactly the same purpose as Conceal once was in Miracle. You stealth your Auctioneer for 1 Mana, you stealth your Antonidas for 1 mana. Seems fair? Well no. It's a spare part so it shouldn't be worth as much as a whole card that actually takes up a slot. Yes, I know conceal gives all friendly minions stealth, but it was never used in that way anyway so the value of the spare part is exactly the same as conceal's which is a class specific card.
Some might laugh at me, but this is really the one problem I see with mech mage. Yeah, I could put more healing into my decks, but the truth is that I'm always going to take damage against mech mage in the early game and the damage of antonidas + stealth all in all is 24 if they just go 4 x fireball, which is just too much to try to outheal when their early game already puts you at like 15 health. And that's not even accounting for the other 2 x fireballs and 2 x frostbolts which are another 18 damage.
I feel that the real problem with mech mage is the goblin blastmage. Rarely if ever have the mech mages ive faced had to play Antonidas. Its really all over by turn 4 anyways when the blastmage hits the board.
Am i the only one who refuse to play this shit cause i'd feel dirty playing it ?
I can usually win the board over and still have enough health left to survive 2 x fireballs, but there's just nothing I can possibly do about stealth + antonidas and that's honestly pretty bs.
Blastmage was never really a problem for me, because he's easy enough to handle as long as your minions aren't really close to dead and even then there are still swipe, bladeflurry, truesilver, etc. which deal with him pretty well while also addressing other threats.
Also yeah, I very rarely play mech mage myself, because I don't wanna support this kind of shit.
Finicky Cloakfield + Archmage Antonidas
I agree. It's a finisher that's honestly devastating. Maybe people can run Tinkmaster Overspark to counter?
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The problem isn't the Goblin Blastmage, it's slow control decks that can't clear mechs from the board by turn 4. I've played against a number of people who realize this and take extra steps to keep mechs off the board, even making seemingly bad trades. The Blastmage just sits in my hand until I finally throw it down late game for no battlecry after the deck is out of gas. Of course there is the other type of opponent who sits there with 8 cards in hand staring at 3 mechs on my board like a bump on a log doing nothing - they get blasted and I suppose come here and make QQ threads. As far as the stealth goes, Antonidas in these decks is a safety valve and not the win condition and getting the stealth part as opposed to some other part makes him an even bigger crapshoot.
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Druid has 4 mana seeds besides Sylvanas double wrath to say the least.. Stealth + antonydus is strong but too unreliable to call it op winning condition. Druid has innervates which can bring the same advantage as other combos. You played a game and lost to that combo. Now you come here. You wasted everyones time, especialy your own.
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Well considering you just assumed the mage top decked the perfect turn 8 card with the right spare part already in hand. As otherwise the mage was holding on to a dead card for many turns and is probably not as far ahead as you are assuming. I will also assume you have the perfect cards in hand and answer by saying you should double innervate double savage combo and pound that mages face in for 22+ dmg likely winning you the game for wasting an entire turn 8 doing nothing but set up a lethal 2 turns from current...
I am not a huge fan of mech mage and believe the deck to be in a way anti fun even though not really unfair but if you think its bad you lose in a very specific scenario its only fair if I set up a very specific scenario where you win instead. You also set up your own win condition where you stole antonidas but I like mine more =)
Basically the spare part is not broken because its only super powerful in 1 condition and if that condition is not met its not amazing and even when it is met its not like the game is an instant loss unless you have nothing you can do that turn anyway in which case its hard to make the argument you should have won anyway.
The spare parts are not created equal, and I do agree it is a problem. Stealth, freezing, reversing switch and time rewinder are much better than +1 attack and +1 health (taunt is somewhere in between). The tempo loss from the freezing spare part can be devastating, and is similar to the same problem OP spoke of except with Ice Lance. The spare parts are considered "minor effects," but at least half of them laugh in the face of that description.
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If they're "doing it wrong" then why run Antonidas at all?
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Lol when u see people sitting with 8 cards in hand Not dealing with ur board it means that they havent drawn the stuff to deal with it. They're not conserving resources against aggro.
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Stealth + Antonidas isn't the win condition, nor is it consistent (it's hard to hold onto such a good spare part just for the hopes of dropping him). The issue lies in taking care of seemingly small minions that are too strong to be ignored in reality. Control usually can't respond fast enough or have to trade unfavorably, which is why it's so infuriating to play against. Mid-range and aggro can usually handle this pretty well since they have a heavier focus on better trades and stronger early-mid game plays.
You clicked on the thread, bro. Not my fault. Also this isn't the first time this kind of combo has happened obviously. Also I would not call discussing possible design issues a waste of time and if you do I don't understand why you are even registered here.
I would have combo'd him if I was running combo. The thing is that taunt/ramp druid does better against mech mage usually does better than combo druid unless shit like this happens.
@ButtSeriously Nope your not alone. But since blizzard is blizzard it'll take 4-5 months to nerf it. AKA undertaker, Leeeeroy, Unleash the skill etc.
You didn't suggest any design change. You are only saying "i'm mad at this, do you agree?" and some people say they do and some don't. This thread is useless, you won't benefit from it anyhow.
"The light shall burn you!" - heals face.
this is just another salt thread. I already covered spare parts being OP months ago. Look that thread up.
Its not an OP combo because you need simply luck to get one [card]Finicky Cloakfield[/card]. It is similar to call a summoned Doomsayer out of a Piloted Shredder OP. No it isn't, it is simply luck. Nontheless, the way i deal with the Antonidas-situation is with Loatheb.