There are still plenty of reasons to run an aggro DR deck. Haunted Creeper, Harvest Golem, Sludge Belcher, Savannah Highmane, Piloted Shredder etc all synergise very well with Knife Juggler. Webspinner (for cheap Kill Command activation) and Mad Scientist are still good cards for Hunter whether or not Undertaker exists. And some people might still want to run Leper Gnome for the unavoidable 2 face damage.
As long as there is a reason to run those DR cards, you will still get value out of Undertaker, making it a superior 1-mana choice compared to, say, Cogmaster.
As for the debate about whether the old Undertaker wins games, people need to realise that Undertaker doesn't just win you games when your opponent cannot remove it. If your opponent has to spend a 2-mana Frostbolt to remove a 1-mana Undertaker, you have already gained tempo and gotten value out of Undertaker.
Well... people, like H2050, tell mystic stories of undertaker growing out of control and being impossible to remove and that finally with this nerf we wont see this happening. As I said, I had this happening only twice or thrice and had it happening against me only once.
After 150+ games with undertaker in deck, amount of times it won me a game because opponent didnt manage to remove it: 2-3
So... I dont think this nerf is changing much.
Nobody is going to bother hitting your 2/3 Undertaker with a 2 damage spell, your 3/4 Undertaker with a 3 damage spell, or a 4/5 Undertaker with a 4 damage weapon.... so how can you even effectively gauge that?!? You don't always know what removal your opponent is sitting on, but isn't bothering to play because it won't change the board state.
You can't gauge that as the person playing Undertaker. You can, though, gauge that as a person who plays against it. And I can tell you that I (and many others here) have been on the receiving end of being unable to remove an Undertaker with AoE or a spell or whatever by 1 or 2 HP many times, and as Undertaker grows it stays ever-so-slightly out of range of my on-curve responses. So yes it matters a lottttt. For example, Undertaker now dies to Consecration easily and almost unconditionally unless you buff it with a Spare Part or something similar. That's HUGE. Undertaker's nerf is massive--in fact it's excessive (better than it being broken though). But if you think it's not a big deal, go ahead and play Undertaker on ladder after the nerf. I'll be glad to Consecrate your entire board on turn 4 and get an easy win ^_^
I'm not saying undertaker is gone, but holy hell it's pretty damn close. He's like a crappy 1 mana Micro Machine at best right now that usually dies to Zombie Chow for free. Honestly they should have completely reworked him in some way that makes him less pitiful than he is currently. :/ I've lost to enough Hunters who didn't have turn 1 Undertaker to know that Hunter is far from gone. But I can't help but marvel at what a huge change this is.
The fact that its health got cut is huge. I can take 3-4 damage to the face as long as I remove that asshole with a weapon. The fact that it climbed out of reach of that weapon by turn 3 is ridiculous. Undertaker is now shit so fuck you zoo and huntards.
Undertaker will certainly not go out of play any time soon, but it'll be less frustrating to play against, since it won't be an instant game over 3 turns in.
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The cards may be evil, but nothing is as evil as the player using them.
I think the nerf is a bit much. But it was needed no doubt. I for one, think that it's health should be bumped up to 3 instead of 2. Any 2 health or low minion is simply too easy to deal with.
Even at 2 health I don't think the undertaker will fall entirely out of favor, but it will see much less use for sure.
in a way, maybe undertaker should of been a 3 health minion, but at the same time, how you go about buffing its attack is by summoning deathrattle minions, meaning unless you aoe, you still gotta deal with all the other monsters besides undertaker so as far as that goes, undertaker only having 2 health makes sense.
as far as it being played, it will see play for quite some time but people will start to experiment. at 2 health, this may lead to it dying very easily and hurting death hunter's consistency enough where maybe mid/late game hunters begin popping up more? who knows.
No, no, no. Undertaker nerf is perfect. No need to bump it to 1/3. It would be too good just for a neutral card. 1 mana 1/3 minions are only class cards and it should be kept that way.
No, no, no. Undertaker nerf is perfect. No need to bump it to 1/3. It would be too good just for a neutral card. 1 mana 1/3 minions are only class cards and it should be kept that way.
I totally agree with this
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you Hex a Murloc... it really isn't much of a change, is it?
I have managed to climb up to rank 8 in constructed. And I'm using a death rattle deck. Doesn't really matter what hero I'm using, I'm using a death rattle deck. Sort of a undertaker/mech combo. And I can do this because I finished Naxx. I have a bunch of cheap cards. I can compete at a reasonable level in constructed with cards like Undertaker and Mechwarper. And it feels good.
You know what feels bad? When I'm playing my opponent's constructed deck and he's dropping Dr. Booms and Sylvanas and fancy combos with Gromash and such and I CANT DO IT BECAUSE I DON"T HAVE THOSE CARDS. It's frustrating. And the one answer I have to that frustration is to build decent decks on cheap cards that have good value.... Like Undertaker.
I know it must frustrate folks to have their deck with 10k+ worth of dust lose to my crappy little 900k deck. That must really suck for them. But, can't the little guy be thrown a bone now and then? Must it be nerfed if it levels the playing field a bit for guys like me that don't have all the riches?
Guess so. It's frustrating. But, congrats to all you folks with your 10k+ decks, life just got a little easier for you. How nice.
It's now pretty much a glorified Cog Master... woohooo. It's pretty much not that great anymore lol.
420 NA User.
There are still plenty of reasons to run an aggro DR deck. Haunted Creeper, Harvest Golem, Sludge Belcher, Savannah Highmane, Piloted Shredder etc all synergise very well with Knife Juggler. Webspinner (for cheap Kill Command activation) and Mad Scientist are still good cards for Hunter whether or not Undertaker exists. And some people might still want to run Leper Gnome for the unavoidable 2 face damage.
As long as there is a reason to run those DR cards, you will still get value out of Undertaker, making it a superior 1-mana choice compared to, say, Cogmaster.
As for the debate about whether the old Undertaker wins games, people need to realise that Undertaker doesn't just win you games when your opponent cannot remove it. If your opponent has to spend a 2-mana Frostbolt to remove a 1-mana Undertaker, you have already gained tempo and gotten value out of Undertaker.
Perfect response.
Nobody is going to bother hitting your 2/3 Undertaker with a 2 damage spell, your 3/4 Undertaker with a 3 damage spell, or a 4/5 Undertaker with a 4 damage weapon.... so how can you even effectively gauge that?!? You don't always know what removal your opponent is sitting on, but isn't bothering to play because it won't change the board state.
You can't gauge that as the person playing Undertaker. You can, though, gauge that as a person who plays against it. And I can tell you that I (and many others here) have been on the receiving end of being unable to remove an Undertaker with AoE or a spell or whatever by 1 or 2 HP many times, and as Undertaker grows it stays ever-so-slightly out of range of my on-curve responses. So yes it matters a lottttt. For example, Undertaker now dies to Consecration easily and almost unconditionally unless you buff it with a Spare Part or something similar. That's HUGE. Undertaker's nerf is massive--in fact it's excessive (better than it being broken though). But if you think it's not a big deal, go ahead and play Undertaker on ladder after the nerf. I'll be glad to Consecrate your entire board on turn 4 and get an easy win ^_^
I'm not saying undertaker is gone, but holy hell it's pretty damn close. He's like a crappy 1 mana Micro Machine at best right now that usually dies to Zombie Chow for free. Honestly they should have completely reworked him in some way that makes him less pitiful than he is currently. :/ I've lost to enough Hunters who didn't have turn 1 Undertaker to know that Hunter is far from gone. But I can't help but marvel at what a huge change this is.
The fact that its health got cut is huge. I can take 3-4 damage to the face as long as I remove that asshole with a weapon. The fact that it climbed out of reach of that weapon by turn 3 is ridiculous. Undertaker is now shit so fuck you zoo and huntards.
Undertaker will certainly not go out of play any time soon, but it'll be less frustrating to play against, since it won't be an instant game over 3 turns in.
The cards may be evil, but nothing is as evil as the player using them.
I think the nerf is a bit much. But it was needed no doubt. I for one, think that it's health should be bumped up to 3 instead of 2.
Any 2 health or low minion is simply too easy to deal with.
Even at 2 health I don't think the undertaker will fall entirely out of favor, but it will see much less use for sure.
in a way, maybe undertaker should of been a 3 health minion, but at the same time, how you go about buffing its attack is by summoning deathrattle minions, meaning unless you aoe, you still gotta deal with all the other monsters besides undertaker so as far as that goes, undertaker only having 2 health makes sense.
as far as it being played, it will see play for quite some time but people will start to experiment. at 2 health, this may lead to it dying very easily and hurting death hunter's consistency enough where maybe mid/late game hunters begin popping up more? who knows.
Zombie Chow + Healing Totem v. any aggro deck and gg.
Undertaker can win a game just by trading with a four drop sometimes.
It still has a place in face hunters deck. It will probably see no play in any other deck Is my guess.
Never worried about facing UT, will just worry even less now. People don't half get over excited ...
No, no, no. Undertaker nerf is perfect. No need to bump it to 1/3. It would be too good just for a neutral card. 1 mana 1/3 minions are only class cards and it should be kept that way.
"Can I help you, sir?" -Jeeves
I totally agree with this
If you Hex a Murloc... it really isn't much of a change, is it?
Can't wait for the new decks people will think up now that they won't have this cancer to mindlessly fall back on.
Some people are saying Mech Hunter will see an appearance. I don't think Beast+Mech merge well, but Beast+DR is still really powerfull.
If you go the Mech route, you can't use all the potential of your beast (kill command essentially)
If you Hex a Murloc... it really isn't much of a change, is it?
From what I can see, Hunter will go even more face than before the nerf with Arcane Golem.
Zoo always did great even without the Undertaker.
Basically we will be trading Brain Cancer for Lung Cancer.
If you Hex a Murloc... it really isn't much of a change, is it?
Dies to backstab, dies to zombie chow, dies to consecration, dies to exploding sheep.
I think mage will be the dominant aggro deck now.
we will definitely see a upsurge of aggro mage after the patch.
They have a really strong card combination to perform well
If you Hex a Murloc... it really isn't much of a change, is it?
I find this frustrating.
I have managed to climb up to rank 8 in constructed. And I'm using a death rattle deck. Doesn't really matter what hero I'm using, I'm using a death rattle deck. Sort of a undertaker/mech combo. And I can do this because I finished Naxx. I have a bunch of cheap cards. I can compete at a reasonable level in constructed with cards like Undertaker and Mechwarper. And it feels good.
You know what feels bad? When I'm playing my opponent's constructed deck and he's dropping Dr. Booms and Sylvanas and fancy combos with Gromash and such and I CANT DO IT BECAUSE I DON"T HAVE THOSE CARDS. It's frustrating. And the one answer I have to that frustration is to build decent decks on cheap cards that have good value.... Like Undertaker.
I know it must frustrate folks to have their deck with 10k+ worth of dust lose to my crappy little 900k deck. That must really suck for them. But, can't the little guy be thrown a bone now and then? Must it be nerfed if it levels the playing field a bit for guys like me that don't have all the riches?
Guess so. It's frustrating. But, congrats to all you folks with your 10k+ decks, life just got a little easier for you. How nice.
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