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I understand the document very well. I work in an industry where we monitor our customers like rats so we can manipulate them to spend money. On the other hand, what proof do you have that the whole ecosystem is not controlled and manipulated? As I said, whenever a consumer queues in a game, the consumer assumes that there are equal chances of winning the game, but again, if you try to read that document, you can find out that you don't have all the time equal chances of winning. Is there any explicit information when you queue that you may be queued in games where we can adjust your MMR, giving the opponent a perfect draw, or we may queue you in games just to advertise our cards? Nooo, you assume that you are playing according to the law of basic probabilities.
Thus, you make an assumption based on corporation's trustworthy, I make assumption on a legal document. Who is closer to the truth?
Since neither of you can prove what Blizzard actually does with their algorithms, we have two likely scenarios.
1. This company cheats against naturally occurring random wins of the player by manipulating matches. This can be enforced to support of wide range of company interests, player addiction, card sales to minors and whales, players obsessed with legend, etc.
2. Nothing is manipulated by Blizzard and everything is purely random in the game, and it's just a mystery why there are so few decks with 70% or higher win rates in a game this broken overall.
I know corporate America too well to not believe it's the latter.
It's simply far too easy to manipulate player matches, card draw, or rng with algorithms if you understand anything about coding.
I honestly feel for you, that sounds soul crushing.
I have none, none whatsoever. It all comes down to epistemology. I don't claim that the ecosystem isn't controlled or manipulated, I claim that it's not controlled in the way which is described by other people in this thread so far. That's the difference. Maybe it is controlled and manipulated to promote microtransaction, it would make total sense for a company to do that. BUT, it doesn't mean we can make up how they do it.
I did try to read the document, I've told you so in my previous message. You're the expert here, you work in that field and you allegedly understand the document (while I admit I don't), throw us a bone here. You're saying that players don't have 'equal chance of winning'. That's the claim. Now back it up with evidence. What evidence do we have that players don't have equal chance of winning? Maybe there isn't any evidence out there, in that case, we can speculate about it but we can't make assertions about it. See what I'm saying? What does the patent say about that?
I mean, what does 'equal chance of winning' even means? You're using sentences as if they were a given but to me, they're not.
So that's a claim. What's a perfect draw? Give an example. What does 'advertise our cards' mean? Give an example. You're taking all of this for granted, as is it was obvious. Trust me, it's not.
Why don't you ask me what I think instead of telling me what I think? Here's what I think: I don't trust Blizzard, I don't care about Blizzard. I don't think Hearthstone is especially well designed and wouldn't mind if the game ended or failed. I don't think the current team is competent enough to handle such a game. I think most corporations are amoral and the only thing preventing them from doing the worse for humanity is if they're carefully monitored legally and ethically. I don't really think 'drone' fits that mindset. On the other hand, I naturally skeptical and don't believe something just because someone tells me so.
Still, I think the fact that you've used the word 'assumption' yourself at least means that you're well aware that you're speculating about this. The way you were writing your messages had a very factual tone to them: 'Blizzard is rigging the game by doing 'x' 'y' and 'z'' when really, you don't have a clue. That's fine, neither do I. The pushback you're getting is because is essentially because at the end of the day: we don't know if and how the game is rigged. Anyone who pretends otherwise needs to back their claim with proof. That's it really.
You also didn't address any of the points I brought up. I always bring up the same points whenever someone brings up the rigging issue and every single time, without fail, I never get an answer, the member stops responding or avoids responding. I think that's because, if you were to really consider the points I've brought up, you'd realize it's impossible to justify the game being rigged the way it's pretended to be rigged.
To conclude, I do think that if you think about this long enough, you'll realize 'perfect draw' and 'advertise the cards' doesn't make any sense.
Great, explain it. Give examples of a match where a player had spend more money and were given a perfect draw in a given situation against a player who was free-to-play. Explain it to me. Maybe you're right, maybe the game is rigged in that way. I'm only interested in the truth, it's certainly possible that I'm wrong.
I've played the game since Beta and understand both sides of this debate.
I used to buy all skins and bundles ( call me a whale if you wish) and had a good time playing. On multiple occasions, I got legend rank in all 3 modes at the time and I was pretty okay with the game.
As soon as I skipped some bundles from the shop for skins and such I got a terrible run in luck. I wasn't able to reach Legend in a few months, I had terrible RNG in general.
Now, I am NOT stating the two are connected but I just noticed some patterns. I would have games in which there was absolutely nothing I could have done differently to not lose.
Games where RNG would be so busted that I believed I was getting "scammed" in a way. After a few bad games like those, I would come across an opponent that I would completely crush. Like either he had the same thing I did the last few games or it was " rigged" for me to win and not lose interest.
In general, I stopped buying and completely went F2P mode because the discovery and all the random mechanics were just too much for my liking. I feel in a way it's 90% luck and 10% skill game now.
Since then I lost interest in the game. I wasn't able to reach legend in the last 3 months because I would just get triggered by the insane amount of RNG and bad matchmaking. I would lose even high favorable matches due to bad RNG.
My main point is. Don't pay for anything in HS. It's not worth your time and money. There are plenty of other games that cost less and are way more interesting to play. And as well I'm not saying the game is rigged but as well I'm not saying it's not in a way.
No. I'm not a dev assigned to building their proprietary algorithms, nor would I want to be. See, Blizzard has kind of this awful history of enforcing bad practices in their games of late from Hearthstone, to Wow, to Diablo, to Overwatch..and in many cases outright lying to gamers even.
Why would I waste time. You believe what the hell you want to. This is a forum, not some municipal court.
1.Most corporate entities in the gaming industry will do anything to get more $$$ out of player.
2. Blizzard has very clearly stated this on multiple occasions that their matches are fixed to try to maintain a 50% win ratio for all players. What does that mean specifically? Who they hell knows, but it still means they rig matches whether you like it or not.
3. Most players can attest to running into a suspicious string of counter decks based on what you put in your own deck and that's all the evidence I need.
When the game wants you to lose, you will lose.
1. You are correct. Except there are too many tech savvy people playing video games and the practices you think are happening would have been discovered, ruining the company.
2. Blizzard devs have stated that goal is to get everyone as close to 50% winrate as possible through matchmaking, which means giving you fair opponents. You intentionally misinterpret that.
3. Most players don't believe the game is rigged. You just visit echo chambers like this thread and convince yourself that you're stuck because the game is rigged, not because you suck at it.
Well, we're having a discussion about Hearthstone on a Hearthstone forum, that's kind of the point, isn't? I'm not too bothered about using my time super productively on a card game discussion forum but you do you (I don't get the municipal court analogy here).
The only potentially good argument so far has been the patent which has been barely quoted and explained. The rest is essentially Blizzard rigs the game because I say so.
I code for a living and I don't see any viability to doing what you are talking about. It could only be done if things were completely static and exist in a vacuum. Kind of like how a meta report does. You have to assume way too many things like that all players have the same collection, they all will put the same cards into a deck, they will always play optimally, they are at equal skill levels, the deck order and how that impacts the game, etc. And then on top of all that doing it in a way that no one who actually tracks these things will notice. Because it would show up in data. I guarantee you no developer is that good.
Then on your points above:
1. Yes very true. Hence why they are risk averse and don't like bad publicity. Rigging things to give certain groups of players higher win rates without telling them certainly does that.
2. This is easily accomplished by matching you against a "Worthy Opponent". No rigging needed. it is that natural outcome on any ladder system. If you're a legend player you will likely be well above 50% until getting to high diamond and legend again and you are playing against your peers.
3. A small amount of bronze players on a forum where less than 0.01% of the player base frequents. Nice try buddy. In general, you should look for more evidence than that on anything in life. Confirmation bias is not truth. Care to answer about the guy above who had a 65 game winstreak?
Also, I have not spent money on this game since 2015 and have noticed no such trends that are anything outside of normal variance. But then again I use a deck tracker so I actually know...
Can you provide a reason why he was able to do that when you said it was impossible? Seems like he destroyed anything you had to say with a single screenshot and a snarky one-liner.
That's not the main reason. Some decks are just abysmally worse against some other decks and inevitably you won't get only decks you are overpowered against even if you try. The secondary reason is the MMR; also there are mirrors: decks same as yours; in whole it explains why Sludge Warlock+Skill isn't 100% win rate.
Okay so ill share my bit. I will play Anti-Highlander all day and face no Highlander decks to ruin. I promise you the MOMENT I switch decks I run into them again. Without fail. It be like that sometimes. You have a deck you want to play and you know who it can beat but they never pop up until youre playing a deck thats all the sudden weak against them instead of your anti-them deck.
Did you keep track of your games on HSReplay? If so, do share please. I'd like to see your sample size and the outcome to determine whether or not it's significant.
I never said the algorithm was 100% successful at its job. Some players are just better, luckier, and using better decks but a 65 game win streak is highly unusual. He would've had to play the game for a ~week straight and not lose 1 game.
I play (mostly) priest - 8 out of 10 matches are against other priests. I play priest because its fun against other classes... not against same class.
You know, you wouldn't lose face or be humiliated by admitting your take on this was misinformed. Quite the opposite, it means you have the ability to learn and correct your thinking after pondering about something. Everyone has a wrong take on things all the time, there's no need to hold on to your original position. The other proponents of the hidden algorithm have stopped replying when they found their position untenable. It'd be nice to have at least one member admitting they're reconsidered.
We all want the answer to that. Unfortunately, it's clear that they don't and they only respond to each other. They just work each other up rather than responding to anyone that as a counter point (even with actual proof). It's quite sad really.
I honestly just wish 'Games is Rigged' threads would just be systematically locked. As a mod in this very thread said: it just leads to disinformation and people who spread the falsehood won't accept to be corrected anyway.