I have been playing hearthstone since the start and had a lot of fun. But this really is by far the worst meta I have ever seen.
"But but expansion have just been released" Yeah and I have played at every single release they ever made and meta have never been close to this toxic in any release ever before.
There is just no interaction what so ever. I have no clue why they have pushed this combo meta but it is utter rubbish. First time I am ever considering quitting hearthstone.
This is literally said every single time a new expansion drops. I'm getting tired of it. I don't mean to demean you in any way, but this is repeated every single time a new expansion releases. Every expansion is the worst it's ever been. I've been playing since Blackrock Mountain and missed Saviors of Uldum/Descent of Dragons only. In my experience, this expansion is probably more fun for me than Ashes ever was. And just about everyone can agree that Ashes of Outland was probably the worst experience by far.
This is literally said every single time a new expansion drops. I'm getting tired of it. I don't mean to demean you in any way, but this is repeated every single time a new expansion releases. Every expansion is the worst it's ever been. I've been playing since Blackrock Mountain and missed Saviors of Uldum/Descent of Dragons only. In my experience, this expansion is probably more fun for me than Ashes ever was. And just about everyone can agree that Ashes of Outland was probably the worst experience by far.
I have never said it before. Nor ever seriously considered quitting the game. This is different, at least for me.
This is literally said every single time a new expansion drops. I'm getting tired of it. I don't mean to demean you in any way, but this is repeated every single time a new expansion releases. Every expansion is the worst it's ever been. I've been playing since Blackrock Mountain and missed Saviors of Uldum/Descent of Dragons only. In my experience, this expansion is probably more fun for me than Ashes ever was. And just about everyone can agree that Ashes of Outland was probably the worst experience by far.
I have never said it before. Nor ever seriously considered quitting the game. This is different, at least for me.
I didn't say by you. Players all around will always say "this expansion is the worst ever" no matter what the meta is like.
This is literally said every single time a new expansion drops. I'm getting tired of it. I don't mean to demean you in any way, but this is repeated every single time a new expansion releases. Every expansion is the worst it's ever been. I've been playing since Blackrock Mountain and missed Saviors of Uldum/Descent of Dragons only. In my experience, this expansion is probably more fun for me than Ashes ever was. And just about everyone can agree that Ashes of Outland was probably the worst experience by far.
I have never said it before. Nor ever seriously considered quitting the game. This is different, at least for me.
I didn't say by you. Players all around will always say "this expansion is the worst ever" no matter what the meta is like.
Its a fairly popular game, so yeah there is always gonna be someone who don't like the expansion.
That do not change the fact that it is still important to make your opinion heard. Especially if you feel the developers are flushing one of your favorite games down the toilet.
If most people like this meta I accept that they will keep making combo-decks and quit the game. However if most people dislike this combo-meta we need to voice our opinions and there at least a shot they will try to change the direction.
This is literally said every single time a new expansion drops. I'm getting tired of it. I don't mean to demean you in any way, but this is repeated every single time a new expansion releases. Every expansion is the worst it's ever been. I've been playing since Blackrock Mountain and missed Saviors of Uldum/Descent of Dragons only. In my experience, this expansion is probably more fun for me than Ashes ever was. And just about everyone can agree that Ashes of Outland was probably the worst experience by far.
"Every new expansion is the worst" That literally shows you the direction the game is going lol. Agree with op 100%. Quest mage and warlock are simply retarded
Please go quit and stop crying every expansion comes like really I don't understand why ur mother brought you to life just to keep crying and whining ?
This is literally said every single time a new expansion drops.
Actually, no. He did mention the lack of interactivity, which is unique to this expansion. Even if it has existed somewhat in the past (and I actually don't recall it ever being a primary complaint), the "solitaire" effect has never been this extreme.
Having a new reason to hate a new expansion is reason enough to create a thread IMO.
And this isn't even as bad as it's going to get. The Rogue OTK hasn't fully exploded yet because a lot of players have not yet gotten the hang of it. Once more people learn how to use it, we'll be wishing for a return to Lunacy Mage.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Like... Look man. I do agree with you to some extent. I miss Control. I miss fighting for the board. I miss being able to counter what my opponent is playing.
The game itself is going to a more aggro oriented play style, which counteracts the new Rewards Track they put out. Playing aggro doesn't give you max EXP, and I feel like that's something the devs want. Playing control gives you as much EXP as you can get from a single game. I'm having fun with these new cards, being able to experiment and everything.
I don't agree that this is the worst expansion by far. Like I said, players say that every expansion drop because they don't like the meta. I personally don't feel like this is a bad expansion. I feel like it's a much better step from what the meta was like after Descent of Dragons dropped. I know I said I missed that expansion, but I meant I missed the release. I started playing again about a month after Descent.
I feel like the only reason the game feels so solitaire like is because of the aggro push. Combo decks are fun. And I feel like every class being able to do them is fun. Are there broken cards? Yes. But that's bound to happen when they powercreep so many cards. Which I feel is something they have to do to keep people playing and to keep the game "refreshing".
When Wild came around, a bunch of good cards left the most played format, so they had to come up with some way to bring those cards back, but stronger. Which, again, is bound to happen. Just look at any other card game.
The balance changes they make could be better. They could change more cards than they do. Changing 4 or 5 cards every balance patch doesn't do what players want. They need to focus on making the game more enjoyable. So far, what I've seen from this expansion, they're trying to. But alot of the cards that assist in the solitaire like feeling come from older expansions that we have no choice but to wait until they rotate out. As long as they don't release more aggro support and continue releasing control or combo cards, I feel like the game would be much better.
As I said before, I'm not trying to demean you. I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm simply stating that this has been said with every expansion release and that I don't agree that this is the worst expansion yet.
I love comboing and otking but I agree, this is a bit problematic.
Also, I like fast games so this meta is "fine" with me, better than being grinded down by slow control decks with 20min per game.
If the meta establishes and they tone down a bit mage, we can have a varied meta, in fact, this few days I'm seeing a LOT of different decks, much better than the Secretdin > Spell Mage > Libramdin > Repeat we had a few months ago
It's an aggro focused launch. If it gets too crazy there will be balance changes but either way, control will come up with optimal decks to compete and the race to figure out the meta will be on.
Despite the fact that I despise the idea of a card which literally wins you the game (a.k.a. the priest quest reward), I think the way that quest has been deisgned is far, far better than the other ones. It leaves open a fairly flexible deck design, you have some meaningful choices regarding playing cards to complete the quest vs. playing cards to contest board/respond etc., the reward at each stage supports one of the weak areas of the class and at best, the whole quest chain takes at least until turn 10 to complete.
The problem is that the other quests are far too quick and easy to complete (and can be done without any menaingful interaction with the opponent), they force a relatively similar deck design which is foccused solely on quest completion, and once complete are essentially a "win the game" card. You can't interact or dirsupt the quest progress in any meaningful way outside of a lucky Mutanus (which rarely gets to be played and can be played around easily) so you're left with the option of "kill them before they kill me". What an outstanding piece of design...
The "solution" of playing the druid quest counter (if that's what it is) is basically just rinsing away the shit with piss - it has all the same issues as the other quests with the exception that you could maybe counter it with taunt (for those new to the game this expansion, Taunt is an ability which minions can have, but you probably haven't seen too many of those).
Another issue with the game at the moment is classes with too much draw and mana cheating. Both have been problems in the past and yet Blizzard continue to create cards which do exactly that, with the synergistic effects often the main problem (0 mana draw anyone??). Decks should not be able to draw through 20 cards in 6 or 7 turns while doing other stuff to contest the board/progress quests - it's just a bad design. Draw should be a cost/benefit - you lose tempo to gain resources. Sadly for most classes it hasn't been that for a long time...
It's clear that the older Hearthstone players are no longer the demographic. You have to remember that many people have come and gone on the hearthstone team. Long gone are the days of Ben Borde and other designers and faces of the team. Pretty much every new expansion reveal has new faces as the director of the game. With the new sexual harassment cases, I expect that Hearthstone door to keep revolving.
It's an aggro focused launch. If it gets too crazy there will be balance changes but either way, control will come up with optimal decks to compete and the race to figure out the meta will be on.
Your reply would be 100% true in such threads at the launch of any expansion we have seen before, but it's not the same, as FortyDust said.That's the most concerning thing, when unrefined and suboptimally piloted combo decks are as good as aggro decks on day 1, it may lead to even worse meta when combo decks became more refined and people will get better at piloting them. I'm not saying it's unfixable and I'm quitting, but it's concerning. Luckily, we still have Classic, Arena and BGs. As to balance changes, looks like they may need a lot of them and it's unclear if they will be able to do it fast with all that mess at Blizzard.
I would like to quote the most upvoted post from HS subreddit today:
They did it. The mad lads did it. They turned hearthstone into a single player game.
To be fair I am not calling for a nerf or saying the design was bad or anything like that. I'm not trying to shit on the expansion. You can do it all you want. I'm making the observation that out of the 10 classes on ladder I've been playing against, 7 of them play complete solitaire decks. Mage quest, warlock quest. Druid can have up to 5 copies of battlecry 8 attack minions. Demon hunter is doing quest illgynoth otk, hunter and shaman is just doing normal spell/weapon burn, and these are two classes that could easily go non-minion if they wanted to. Also the cherry on top, rogue has a t6 otk garrote deck with iceblock
DH was a bit like the Devs had looked at /r/customhearthstone and just copied their homework. Arguably shaman was the same during one of the expansions.
I think the difference here is that it's not really about power level per se (which is obviously still very relevant), but more the nature of the decks. The meta at the moment is basically a bunch of OTK decks that do their thing and ignore the opponent. They do it so fast and with so little risk/decision that playing against it is basically playing against a clock. Except if you're not playing one of the OP quest decks you might as well not bother, because they're definitely going to win.
I still baffles me that before this expansion released we had a "balance patch" which nerfed priest. Even the old Apotheosis wouldn't be enough in the current meta (not least because it needs minions to a) stick on the board and b) attack. You've also got to love the optimism of the priest quest. They could have printed it the same but instead of "play a card" and said - "gain 2,3,4 mana crystals etc." and it would still be difficult to complete in the current meta.
I think they really need to up the cost of the final reward in all cases to make it difficult to play on the same turn that it completes and slow it down by a few turns. It opens up the possibility of Mutanus counter plays and gives "normal" decks a few more turns. That said, I don't think even that would make much difference as they've already printed too many "zero mana - draw" cards. The only thing keeping hunter (slightly) in the wings at the moment is the lack of draw compared with Mage, Rogue and Warlock. If the big three take it a hit and hunter gets left as it is we'll all just be complaining about hunter in a couple of weeks which is still masively more powerful than "normal" decks.
I have been playing hearthstone since the start and had a lot of fun. But this really is by far the worst meta I have ever seen.
"But but expansion have just been released"
Yeah and I have played at every single release they ever made and meta have never been close to this toxic in any release ever before.
There is just no interaction what so ever.
I have no clue why they have pushed this combo meta but it is utter rubbish.
First time I am ever considering quitting hearthstone.
This is literally said every single time a new expansion drops. I'm getting tired of it. I don't mean to demean you in any way, but this is repeated every single time a new expansion releases. Every expansion is the worst it's ever been. I've been playing since Blackrock Mountain and missed Saviors of Uldum/Descent of Dragons only. In my experience, this expansion is probably more fun for me than Ashes ever was. And just about everyone can agree that Ashes of Outland was probably the worst experience by far.
I have never said it before.
Nor ever seriously considered quitting the game.
This is different, at least for me.
I didn't say by you. Players all around will always say "this expansion is the worst ever" no matter what the meta is like.
Its a fairly popular game, so yeah there is always gonna be someone who don't like the expansion.
That do not change the fact that it is still important to make your opinion heard.
Especially if you feel the developers are flushing one of your favorite games down the toilet.
If most people like this meta I accept that they will keep making combo-decks and quit the game.
However if most people dislike this combo-meta we need to voice our opinions and there at least a shot they will try to change the direction.
"Every new expansion is the worst" That literally shows you the direction the game is going lol. Agree with op 100%. Quest mage and warlock are simply retarded
do you have this saved to drop on every set? you must have a few lines you keep to change up so make sure no one notices
Agree. Even streamers are calling the game solitaire...
I miss playing minions trading and shit. For now I'm back to AFK farming BG and playing something that's actually fun.
Please go quit and stop crying every expansion comes like really I don't understand why ur mother brought you to life just to keep crying and whining ?
Actually, no. He did mention the lack of interactivity, which is unique to this expansion. Even if it has existed somewhat in the past (and I actually don't recall it ever being a primary complaint), the "solitaire" effect has never been this extreme.
Having a new reason to hate a new expansion is reason enough to create a thread IMO.
And this isn't even as bad as it's going to get. The Rogue OTK hasn't fully exploded yet because a lot of players have not yet gotten the hang of it. Once more people learn how to use it, we'll be wishing for a return to Lunacy Mage.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Like... Look man. I do agree with you to some extent. I miss Control. I miss fighting for the board. I miss being able to counter what my opponent is playing.
The game itself is going to a more aggro oriented play style, which counteracts the new Rewards Track they put out. Playing aggro doesn't give you max EXP, and I feel like that's something the devs want. Playing control gives you as much EXP as you can get from a single game. I'm having fun with these new cards, being able to experiment and everything.
I don't agree that this is the worst expansion by far. Like I said, players say that every expansion drop because they don't like the meta. I personally don't feel like this is a bad expansion. I feel like it's a much better step from what the meta was like after Descent of Dragons dropped. I know I said I missed that expansion, but I meant I missed the release. I started playing again about a month after Descent.
I feel like the only reason the game feels so solitaire like is because of the aggro push. Combo decks are fun. And I feel like every class being able to do them is fun. Are there broken cards? Yes. But that's bound to happen when they powercreep so many cards. Which I feel is something they have to do to keep people playing and to keep the game "refreshing".
When Wild came around, a bunch of good cards left the most played format, so they had to come up with some way to bring those cards back, but stronger. Which, again, is bound to happen. Just look at any other card game.
The balance changes they make could be better. They could change more cards than they do. Changing 4 or 5 cards every balance patch doesn't do what players want. They need to focus on making the game more enjoyable. So far, what I've seen from this expansion, they're trying to. But alot of the cards that assist in the solitaire like feeling come from older expansions that we have no choice but to wait until they rotate out. As long as they don't release more aggro support and continue releasing control or combo cards, I feel like the game would be much better.
As I said before, I'm not trying to demean you. I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm simply stating that this has been said with every expansion release and that I don't agree that this is the worst expansion yet.
I love comboing and otking but I agree, this is a bit problematic.
Also, I like fast games so this meta is "fine" with me, better than being grinded down by slow control decks with 20min per game.
If the meta establishes and they tone down a bit mage, we can have a varied meta, in fact, this few days I'm seeing a LOT of different decks, much better than the Secretdin > Spell Mage > Libramdin > Repeat we had a few months ago
It's an aggro focused launch. If it gets too crazy there will be balance changes but either way, control will come up with optimal decks to compete and the race to figure out the meta will be on.
Despite the fact that I despise the idea of a card which literally wins you the game (a.k.a. the priest quest reward), I think the way that quest has been deisgned is far, far better than the other ones. It leaves open a fairly flexible deck design, you have some meaningful choices regarding playing cards to complete the quest vs. playing cards to contest board/respond etc., the reward at each stage supports one of the weak areas of the class and at best, the whole quest chain takes at least until turn 10 to complete.
The problem is that the other quests are far too quick and easy to complete (and can be done without any menaingful interaction with the opponent), they force a relatively similar deck design which is foccused solely on quest completion, and once complete are essentially a "win the game" card. You can't interact or dirsupt the quest progress in any meaningful way outside of a lucky Mutanus (which rarely gets to be played and can be played around easily) so you're left with the option of "kill them before they kill me". What an outstanding piece of design...
The "solution" of playing the druid quest counter (if that's what it is) is basically just rinsing away the shit with piss - it has all the same issues as the other quests with the exception that you could maybe counter it with taunt (for those new to the game this expansion, Taunt is an ability which minions can have, but you probably haven't seen too many of those).
Another issue with the game at the moment is classes with too much draw and mana cheating. Both have been problems in the past and yet Blizzard continue to create cards which do exactly that, with the synergistic effects often the main problem (0 mana draw anyone??). Decks should not be able to draw through 20 cards in 6 or 7 turns while doing other stuff to contest the board/progress quests - it's just a bad design. Draw should be a cost/benefit - you lose tempo to gain resources. Sadly for most classes it hasn't been that for a long time...
It's clear that the older Hearthstone players are no longer the demographic. You have to remember that many people have come and gone on the hearthstone team. Long gone are the days of Ben Borde and other designers and faces of the team. Pretty much every new expansion reveal has new faces as the director of the game. With the new sexual harassment cases, I expect that Hearthstone door to keep revolving.
Your reply would be 100% true in such threads at the launch of any expansion we have seen before, but it's not the same, as FortyDust said. That's the most concerning thing, when unrefined and suboptimally piloted combo decks are as good as aggro decks on day 1, it may lead to even worse meta when combo decks became more refined and people will get better at piloting them. I'm not saying it's unfixable and I'm quitting, but it's concerning. Luckily, we still have Classic, Arena and BGs. As to balance changes, looks like they may need a lot of them and it's unclear if they will be able to do it fast with all that mess at Blizzard.
I would like to quote the most upvoted post from HS subreddit today:
English is not my native language, so, with a high probability, mistakes were made.
DH was way stronger then this meta so your wrong there...
i had like 90% win rate with DH when it come out
DH was a bit like the Devs had looked at /r/customhearthstone and just copied their homework. Arguably shaman was the same during one of the expansions.
I think the difference here is that it's not really about power level per se (which is obviously still very relevant), but more the nature of the decks. The meta at the moment is basically a bunch of OTK decks that do their thing and ignore the opponent. They do it so fast and with so little risk/decision that playing against it is basically playing against a clock. Except if you're not playing one of the OP quest decks you might as well not bother, because they're definitely going to win.
I still baffles me that before this expansion released we had a "balance patch" which nerfed priest. Even the old Apotheosis wouldn't be enough in the current meta (not least because it needs minions to a) stick on the board and b) attack. You've also got to love the optimism of the priest quest. They could have printed it the same but instead of "play a card" and said - "gain 2,3,4 mana crystals etc." and it would still be difficult to complete in the current meta.
I think they really need to up the cost of the final reward in all cases to make it difficult to play on the same turn that it completes and slow it down by a few turns. It opens up the possibility of Mutanus counter plays and gives "normal" decks a few more turns. That said, I don't think even that would make much difference as they've already printed too many "zero mana - draw" cards. The only thing keeping hunter (slightly) in the wings at the moment is the lack of draw compared with Mage, Rogue and Warlock. If the big three take it a hit and hunter gets left as it is we'll all just be complaining about hunter in a couple of weeks which is still masively more powerful than "normal" decks.
Unfortunately, this time it's not that one particular deck (or class) is overpowered, which would be much easier to fix.
English is not my native language, so, with a high probability, mistakes were made.