The problem here is a failure to acknowledge how small a percentage of the playerbase has ever played in tournaments.
The devs felt like they needed a new format because they had been using the format for years, but they fail to take into account that this year, tens of thousands of folks who have never played Conquest would have started playing for the first time. The 1% of 1% who frequently play on the tournament circuit may be a little tired of the format, but it would have read as fresh and new for most of us.
Under phantom pressure to create a new format, I think it is likely that they have come out with a worse alternative.
Opening the tournament scene to others did not require an adjustment of format.
I think you may not give them enough credit for their process of delivery. This has no doubt taken months to plan and implement, and thinking Blizzard doesn’t realize it will target a bigger player base than the “1% of the 1%” is not quite feasible.
I can’t speak to their considerations for changing the format either, but there are lots of possibilities. For example, many people (Firebat included) say it is a simpler format than it was before. Simpler means more easily accessible to the common player that the format now opens up to.
Congrats Blizzard, you're going to completely kill tournament play. One deck with 2x 5 card sideboards? Best of 3? What will you get?
Stale, boring, quick matches that will predominantly end 2-0, and tournaments that will be 90% a roll of the dice on deck selection. Unless something MAJOR is coming in the rotation, there's no way pilots are going to be able to build in enough variation on a 5 card sideboard to swing a bad matchup.
It looks like you've just ripped Magic without even crunching the numbers or put much thought into it. Was there even any consultation with the community? I'd have assumed there'd at least have been a "pro forum" to discuss the potentiality of the proposed format, but I'm getting the feeling that's not the case.
"....we're eager to implement community feedback to improve it as needed throughout 2019" screams of throwing sh*t at the proverbial wall (priest?) and seeing what sticks.
What makes u an expert? Do u win alot of tournaments? Otherwise i think u shouldnt talk about things u dont know about. No one knows for sure how it will turn out, but i think it might be interesting at first atleast. People saying that changing 5 cards doesnt make a deck much diffrent dont know much about the game, a single tech card can make an unfavored match favoreble.
Besides wall priest isnt a problem at all, learn how to counter decks, it takes time and alot of testing and research, but others have done this and figuered it out.
One thing I'd be interested to see is how the statistics compare to sideboarding in MTG.
What's the significance of changing up to 5 cards in a 30-card deck, and how will that skew the strategies that competitors take?
As for how well thought out it was, I'll reserve judgment until I actually see the gameplay in action. In any case I think its good that they're trying new things, even if it's been very slow progress to get here!
One thing I'd be interested to see is how the statistics compare to sideboarding in MTG.
What's the significance of changing up to 5 cards in a 30-card deck, and how will that skew the strategies that competitors take?
As for how well thought out it was, I'll reserve judgment until I actually see the gameplay in action. In any case I think its good that they're trying new things, even if it's been very slow progress to get here!
I don’t really think a comparison to MTG in terms of comparable size of sideboard to the deck makes a whole lot of sense.
The games themselves are not really all that comparable to begin with. Just the fact that magic allows 4 copies of each vs. Heathhstones 2, and the concept of HS legendaries makes any sideboard comparison kind of pointless.
-Blizz's defenders: Come on guys, we haven't tasted it yet.
On serious note, i wonder why they did not implemented this in their old formats.It may have required a client update or UI change but the idea of sideboarding in hs is awesome.Yet they had to gut the tournaments to acheive it...go figure...
One thing I'd be interested to see is how the statistics compare to sideboarding in MTG.
What's the significance of changing up to 5 cards in a 30-card deck, and how will that skew the strategies that competitors take?
As for how well thought out it was, I'll reserve judgment until I actually see the gameplay in action. In any case I think its good that they're trying new things, even if it's been very slow progress to get here!
I don’t really think a comparison to MTG in terms of comparable size of sideboard to the deck makes a whole lot of sense.
The games themselves are not really all that comparable to begin with. Just the fact that magic allows 4 copies of each vs. Heathhstones 2, and the concept of HS legendaries makes any sideboard comparison kind of pointless.
I guess that's kind of my point. Lots of people are comparing the two and saying Blizz nicked the idea off Wotc. So I'd like to see someone crunch the numbers and point out what the real differences are.
I probably should have made that clearer to begin with!
-Blizz's defenders: Come on guys, we haven't tasted it yet.
On serious note, i wonder why they did not implemented this in their old formats.It may have required a client update or UI change but the idea of sideboarding in hs is awesome.Yet they had to gut the tournaments to acheive it...go figure...
Try anything once eh? ;)
Maybe that's why they axed tournament mode. Maybe they tried to implement this format but f'ed up the code or couldn't be arsed or whatever. /s
people(not me though) have been spamming "we want tournament mode babyrage" Blizzard introduced tournament mode then people cry cause it doesn't work IN THE CURRENT META just shows how shortsighted some people are.
Complain all you want after it fails, it's funny people talk about year of the mammoth cards they won't exist in standard post rotation.
I really hope there is something else they are planning cause I could care less about tournaments
people(not me though) have been spamming "we want tournament mode babyrage" Blizzard introduced tournament mode then people cry cause it doesn't work IN THE CURRENT META just shows how shortsighted some people are.
Complain all you want after it fails, it's funny people talk about year of the mammoth cards they won't exist in standard post rotation.
I really hope there is something else they are planning cause I could care less about tournaments
Excuse me kind sir, but to my understanding this is not tournament mode as nothing at all will change in game.This is just a reconstructure of the official tournaments.
If i am wrong please explain it to me how it actually workas, because this is what i understood.
people(not me though) have been spamming "we want tournament mode babyrage" Blizzard introduced tournament mode then people cry cause it doesn't work IN THE CURRENT META just shows how shortsighted some people are.
Complain all you want after it fails, it's funny people talk about year of the mammoth cards they won't exist in standard post rotation.
I really hope there is something else they are planning cause I could care less about tournaments
Excuse me kind sir, but to my understanding this is not tournament mode as nothing at all will change in game.This is just a reconstructure of the official tournaments.
If i am wrong please explain it to me how it actually workas, because this is what i understood.
What is tournament mode if not this? it's a format where you get to play a BO3 with sideboard I am not sure how you will find your opponents but this sounds like tournament mode to me
You could bring even warlock, and take one sideboard with c'thun and one sideboard with X2 voidlord X2 cube and umbra or skull. In general i can see some decks trying this odd into non odd sideboards for specific matchups, maybe with warrior you could switch to chtun gunship? Idk
people(not me though) have been spamming "we want tournament mode babyrage" Blizzard introduced tournament mode then people cry cause it doesn't work IN THE CURRENT META just shows how shortsighted some people are.
Complain all you want after it fails, it's funny people talk about year of the mammoth cards they won't exist in standard post rotation.
I really hope there is something else they are planning cause I could care less about tournaments
This is not a new game mode, this is not tournament mode. This is just a different format for official tournaments, DoubleSummon.
One thing I'd be interested to see is how the statistics compare to sideboarding in MTG.
What's the significance of changing up to 5 cards in a 30-card deck, and how will that skew the strategies that competitors take?
As for how well thought out it was, I'll reserve judgment until I actually see the gameplay in action. In any case I think its good that they're trying new things, even if it's been very slow progress to get here!
I don’t really think a comparison to MTG in terms of comparable size of sideboard to the deck makes a whole lot of sense.
The games themselves are not really all that comparable to begin with. Just the fact that magic allows 4 copies of each vs. Heathhstones 2, and the concept of HS legendaries makes any sideboard comparison kind of pointless.
Also, most sideboards in Magic are constructed in a way to fight a wide variety of strategies. During a match, you only change about 3 or 4 from your sideboard into your deck. Also, most sideboard cards are 1 or 2-ofs. Meaning there is a big component of luck involved in actually drawing your sideboarded cards in a Magic match. Hearthstone's way of sideboarding is different. Your secondary and terciary decks are tailored to fight specific strategies (secondary deck with more healing and AoE for faster decks, terciary deck with card draw and value cards for slower decks). In addition, 5 cards out of a 30-card deck is a big deal (moreso that 3 or 4 cards out of a 60-cards deck), so the flexible slots will have a bigger impact in the game. It's all too common to lose game 2 in MTG because you didn't draw your sideboard cards or to stomp your opponent because you countered their strategy with that 1-of hate card you side-in post sideboard.
Fun to see all these casual players condemning a format they can’t properly comprehend.
We have seen community tournaments with sideboards of 10, which all the pros participating unanimously agreed was too many.
Personally I’m very excited to see how this will play out, and it will actually get me back into watching tournament play.
This will not be the final form, thinking that is ignorant. If you’ve ever held a job anywhere that develops a product, you should also know this. It takes iterations to perfect, but I’m very excited about this first rendition.
Your input would be well received if it didn't come off so elitest. Your assumptions are poor, and well all assumptions are stupid at the best of times.
Well yee master of the cards.....I hereby invite you to actually contribute and give a short little explanation for the casual condemners! Enlighten them so they too can can understand the excitement of what is to come! :)
Not really sure how it came off elitist, was not the intent. It should came off as anything but elitist, because I’m a filthy casual like the rest of them :)
For that very reason, I didn’t judge the format or the concepts thereof, because none of us can truly comprehend it till we try it.
As I said I’m excited to see how it plays out, I won’t be arrogant enough to try to tell you how it will work out.
Cheers mate, I clearly mis-read what you had written. It was the "can't properly comprehend". My intent with such a strongly worded OP was to generate a discussion so I could develop a wider view of the opinions than my own narrow mind.
It's good for me in the fact it'll be a lot more accessible - being F2P juggling 3 regions. I just need that one meta 1 deck each region, and I'm confident I can do <=5 card sideboard without completely ruining the deck (or I just stick with the meta deck).
Time will tell, thanks for contributing, and clarifying my misunderstanding :)
The problem here is a failure to acknowledge how small a percentage of the playerbase has ever played in tournaments.
The devs felt like they needed a new format because they had been using the format for years, but they fail to take into account that this year, tens of thousands of folks who have never played Conquest would have started playing for the first time. The 1% of 1% who frequently play on the tournament circuit may be a little tired of the format, but it would have read as fresh and new for most of us.
Under phantom pressure to create a new format, I think it is likely that they have come out with a worse alternative.
Opening the tournament scene to others did not require an adjustment of format.
I think you may not give them enough credit for their process of delivery. This has no doubt taken months to plan and implement, and thinking Blizzard doesn’t realize it will target a bigger player base than the “1% of the 1%” is not quite feasible.
I can’t speak to their considerations for changing the format either, but there are lots of possibilities. For example, many people (Firebat included) say it is a simpler format than it was before. Simpler means more easily accessible to the common player that the format now opens up to.
But Firebat's post about it expressed the same general opinion as my initial post. In fact it was the only supporting post from a pro that I read before posting - not that it influenced, it actually reinforced my initial thoughts.
Congrats Blizzard, you're going to completely kill tournament play. One deck with 2x 5 card sideboards? Best of 3? What will you get?
Stale, boring, quick matches that will predominantly end 2-0, and tournaments that will be 90% a roll of the dice on deck selection. Unless something MAJOR is coming in the rotation, there's no way pilots are going to be able to build in enough variation on a 5 card sideboard to swing a bad matchup.
It looks like you've just ripped Magic without even crunching the numbers or put much thought into it. Was there even any consultation with the community? I'd have assumed there'd at least have been a "pro forum" to discuss the potentiality of the proposed format, but I'm getting the feeling that's not the case.
"....we're eager to implement community feedback to improve it as needed throughout 2019" screams of throwing sh*t at the proverbial wall (priest?) and seeing what sticks.
What makes u an expert? Do u win alot of tournaments? Otherwise i think u shouldnt talk about things u dont know about. No one knows for sure how it will turn out, but i think it might be interesting at first atleast. People saying that changing 5 cards doesnt make a deck much diffrent dont know much about the game, a single tech card can make an unfavored match favoreble.
Besides wall priest isnt a problem at all, learn how to counter decks, it takes time and alot of testing and research, but others have done this and figuered it out.
If you're gonna have a pop at me at least run a spell check. ;-)
I never stated I was an expert. Maybe an exert at starting a healthy discussion about a topic of choice so I can expand my understanding. While I'm working on keeping my mouth shut unless I'm an expert on something (which would make opening my mouth redundant anyway), you could probably go work on your post comprehension.
people(not me though) have been spamming "we want tournament mode babyrage" Blizzard introduced tournament mode then people cry cause it doesn't work IN THE CURRENT META just shows how shortsighted some people are.
Complain all you want after it fails, it's funny people talk about year of the mammoth cards they won't exist in standard post rotation.
I really hope there is something else they are planning cause I could care less about tournaments
This is not a new game mode, this is not tournament mode. This is just a different format for official tournaments, DoubleSummon.
So... what's the ruleset for? a tournament could as well make the rules themselves
Edit: NVM made a fool of myself it's just a crappy ruleset for a tournament dunno why they made it look like it's something new
I'm reticent to comment on the new format, given that a lot of folks are being quite prickly about the announcement. But here it goes . . .
Altogether, it seems like an improvement for the competitive scene - counter-play has been sorely lacking from the game, given that most "answers" the devs provide us in order to tech against Aggro, Combo, etc, are simply unplayably bad. But many of those answers are only bad on ladder, since they are dead draws when you queue against a deck that isn't targeted by those tech choices. Something as innocuous as a late-game Value deck has been missing for the past couple of years, simply because those kinds of decks get nuked by Combo. If you have the option of running an anti-Combo Value deck as one of your auxiliaries . . . it will be interesting to see how the tournament scene develops over the course of the year.
I love how everbody here is negativ about this without seeing or playing this mode with the new cards. This mode is not for this meta with alot of polarization. Alit of this stuff will rotate. Just wait and see and give this idea a shot after rotation. The worst what might happen is that its good and you cant flame blizzard anymore it seems. Just wait and see. You complain anyways so you can complain if its rly bad.
For clarification - with this new tournament format being played through BATTLEFY, pilots will simply submit three decks of the same type, blah blah. It's comparative to currently submitting 4 decks of different heroes. It'll just be policed manually or with the BATTLEFY software. Nothing will change within the HS software.
Good point made that assumptions are being made on current game play/meta. I *think* I mentioned in the original post that I think there has to be an assumption that there is synergy between the new tournament format and the upcoming rotation(s). It would be completely counterintuitive for the same structure of meta to exist next rotation with a tournament mode that doesn't really seem to fit (at the moment).
This will probably end up in the "Level Up! nerfed?! ODD PALLY IS DEAD!" Nekminnit > Frostwolf.
(As a relative n00b I was proud of the fact I picked that card as the primary replacement when the nerf was announced LOL)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I think you may not give them enough credit for their process of delivery. This has no doubt taken months to plan and implement, and thinking Blizzard doesn’t realize it will target a bigger player base than the “1% of the 1%” is not quite feasible.
I can’t speak to their considerations for changing the format either, but there are lots of possibilities. For example, many people (Firebat included) say it is a simpler format than it was before. Simpler means more easily accessible to the common player that the format now opens up to.
What makes u an expert? Do u win alot of tournaments? Otherwise i think u shouldnt talk about things u dont know about. No one knows for sure how it will turn out, but i think it might be interesting at first atleast. People saying that changing 5 cards doesnt make a deck much diffrent dont know much about the game, a single tech card can make an unfavored match favoreble.
Besides wall priest isnt a problem at all, learn how to counter decks, it takes time and alot of testing and research, but others have done this and figuered it out.
One thing I'd be interested to see is how the statistics compare to sideboarding in MTG.
What's the significance of changing up to 5 cards in a 30-card deck, and how will that skew the strategies that competitors take?
As for how well thought out it was, I'll reserve judgment until I actually see the gameplay in action. In any case I think its good that they're trying new things, even if it's been very slow progress to get here!
I don’t really think a comparison to MTG in terms of comparable size of sideboard to the deck makes a whole lot of sense.
The games themselves are not really all that comparable to begin with. Just the fact that magic allows 4 copies of each vs. Heathhstones 2, and the concept of HS legendaries makes any sideboard comparison kind of pointless.
-Blizzard: Here is a turd, enjoy!
-Community: BRIIIING THE PITCHFOOOORKS
-Blizz's defenders: Come on guys, we haven't tasted it yet.
On serious note, i wonder why they did not implemented this in their old formats.It may have required a client update or UI change but the idea of sideboarding in hs is awesome.Yet they had to gut the tournaments to acheive it...go figure...
I guess that's kind of my point. Lots of people are comparing the two and saying Blizz nicked the idea off Wotc. So I'd like to see someone crunch the numbers and point out what the real differences are.
I probably should have made that clearer to begin with!
Try anything once eh? ;)
Maybe that's why they axed tournament mode. Maybe they tried to implement this format but f'ed up the code or couldn't be arsed or whatever. /s
people(not me though) have been spamming "we want tournament mode babyrage" Blizzard introduced tournament mode then people cry cause it doesn't work IN THE CURRENT META just shows how shortsighted some people are.
Complain all you want after it fails, it's funny people talk about year of the mammoth cards they won't exist in standard post rotation.
I really hope there is something else they are planning cause I could care less about tournaments
Excuse me kind sir, but to my understanding this is not tournament mode as nothing at all will change in game.This is just a reconstructure of the official tournaments.
If i am wrong please explain it to me how it actually workas, because this is what i understood.
What is tournament mode if not this? it's a format where you get to play a BO3 with sideboard I am not sure how you will find your opponents but this sounds like tournament mode to me
you are not the smart type right?
This is not a new game mode, this is not tournament mode. This is just a different format for official tournaments, DoubleSummon.
Also, most sideboards in Magic are constructed in a way to fight a wide variety of strategies. During a match, you only change about 3 or 4 from your sideboard into your deck. Also, most sideboard cards are 1 or 2-ofs. Meaning there is a big component of luck involved in actually drawing your sideboarded cards in a Magic match. Hearthstone's way of sideboarding is different. Your secondary and terciary decks are tailored to fight specific strategies (secondary deck with more healing and AoE for faster decks, terciary deck with card draw and value cards for slower decks). In addition, 5 cards out of a 30-card deck is a big deal (moreso that 3 or 4 cards out of a 60-cards deck), so the flexible slots will have a bigger impact in the game. It's all too common to lose game 2 in MTG because you didn't draw your sideboard cards or to stomp your opponent because you countered their strategy with that 1-of hate card you side-in post sideboard.
Cheers mate, I clearly mis-read what you had written. It was the "can't properly comprehend". My intent with such a strongly worded OP was to generate a discussion so I could develop a wider view of the opinions than my own narrow mind.
It's good for me in the fact it'll be a lot more accessible - being F2P juggling 3 regions. I just need that one meta 1 deck each region, and I'm confident I can do <=5 card sideboard without completely ruining the deck (or I just stick with the meta deck).
Time will tell, thanks for contributing, and clarifying my misunderstanding :)
But Firebat's post about it expressed the same general opinion as my initial post. In fact it was the only supporting post from a pro that I read before posting - not that it influenced, it actually reinforced my initial thoughts.
If you're gonna have a pop at me at least run a spell check. ;-)
I never stated I was an expert. Maybe an exert at starting a healthy discussion about a topic of choice so I can expand my understanding. While I'm working on keeping my mouth shut unless I'm an expert on something (which would make opening my mouth redundant anyway), you could probably go work on your post comprehension.
So... what's the ruleset for? a tournament could as well make the rules themselves
Edit: NVM made a fool of myself it's just a crappy ruleset for a tournament dunno why they made it look like it's something new
I'm reticent to comment on the new format, given that a lot of folks are being quite prickly about the announcement. But here it goes . . .
Altogether, it seems like an improvement for the competitive scene - counter-play has been sorely lacking from the game, given that most "answers" the devs provide us in order to tech against Aggro, Combo, etc, are simply unplayably bad. But many of those answers are only bad on ladder, since they are dead draws when you queue against a deck that isn't targeted by those tech choices. Something as innocuous as a late-game Value deck has been missing for the past couple of years, simply because those kinds of decks get nuked by Combo. If you have the option of running an anti-Combo Value deck as one of your auxiliaries . . . it will be interesting to see how the tournament scene develops over the course of the year.
I love how everbody here is negativ about this without seeing or playing this mode with the new cards. This mode is not for this meta with alot of polarization. Alit of this stuff will rotate. Just wait and see and give this idea a shot after rotation. The worst what might happen is that its good and you cant flame blizzard anymore it seems. Just wait and see. You complain anyways so you can complain if its rly bad.
For clarification - with this new tournament format being played through BATTLEFY, pilots will simply submit three decks of the same type, blah blah. It's comparative to currently submitting 4 decks of different heroes. It'll just be policed manually or with the BATTLEFY software. Nothing will change within the HS software.
Good point made that assumptions are being made on current game play/meta. I *think* I mentioned in the original post that I think there has to be an assumption that there is synergy between the new tournament format and the upcoming rotation(s). It would be completely counterintuitive for the same structure of meta to exist next rotation with a tournament mode that doesn't really seem to fit (at the moment).
This will probably end up in the "Level Up! nerfed?! ODD PALLY IS DEAD!" Nekminnit > Frostwolf.
(As a relative n00b I was proud of the fact I picked that card as the primary replacement when the nerf was announced LOL)